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Vintage Vending Box Breaks - Gauging Interest for An Alternate Target
70ToppsFanatic
Posts: 2,104 ✭✭✭✭
I watched the thread about the proposed 1960 Vending Box break with keen interest, and had mixed feelings when I saw that it was cancelled.
I think the best element of the cancellation was that a possibly 1-of-a-kind vintage unopened item will survive and remain intact. I have always had strong reservations about opening vintage unopened items that are in excessively short supply.
On the other hand, the thrill of the chase from opening vintage items generates a lot of excitement, and sometimes results in some amazing finds.
Opening vending boxes looking for high-end cards is probably not going to be as lucrative as dealing with racks. Vending does tend to be more susceptible to damage over time in my experience. So $40/card seemed to be a heavy price tag.
On the other hand, there is a supply of vintage vending boxes which come to market a few times a year (1971 from the Fritsch stash) which offer some pretty comparable opportunities
with a significantly lower unit price per card. The recently ended Collect Auctions series 3 and series 4 vending boxes sold for about $8600 ($17/card) and $10200 ($20/card) respectively. And these are also not likely to be 1-of-a-kind.
The mechanics of doing such a break are significant, but not impossible. It would take time, and would need to be done publicly (and preferably also webcasted), but these are not show-stoppers.
We've successfully been able to bid together on unopened lots in public auctions before and have the items shipped to BBCE for group breaks. We also broke the 1979 wax tray case from National 2014 together. I feel reasonably confident that we could find a way to work with BBCE to do a vintage vending box break (and in fact I am on assignment in the Chicago area for the next year, so it would not be hard to invest a day at BBCE on a weekend to help make this a reality if we managed to secure such a box).
So if another such vending box were to come up for auction, how many would be interested in such a break if it were to be done transparently in the following increments?
- One hundred groups of 5 cards each (about $85-$100 per group)?
- Fifty groups of 10 cards each (about $170-$200 per group)?
- Twenty-Five groups 20 cards (about $340-$400 per group)?
Remember, Fritsch inventory for 1971 is series 1, 2, 3 and 4, plus they also have other years (1970, 1972, etc.) and multiple sports we could watch for.
I think the best element of the cancellation was that a possibly 1-of-a-kind vintage unopened item will survive and remain intact. I have always had strong reservations about opening vintage unopened items that are in excessively short supply.
On the other hand, the thrill of the chase from opening vintage items generates a lot of excitement, and sometimes results in some amazing finds.
Opening vending boxes looking for high-end cards is probably not going to be as lucrative as dealing with racks. Vending does tend to be more susceptible to damage over time in my experience. So $40/card seemed to be a heavy price tag.
On the other hand, there is a supply of vintage vending boxes which come to market a few times a year (1971 from the Fritsch stash) which offer some pretty comparable opportunities
with a significantly lower unit price per card. The recently ended Collect Auctions series 3 and series 4 vending boxes sold for about $8600 ($17/card) and $10200 ($20/card) respectively. And these are also not likely to be 1-of-a-kind.
The mechanics of doing such a break are significant, but not impossible. It would take time, and would need to be done publicly (and preferably also webcasted), but these are not show-stoppers.
We've successfully been able to bid together on unopened lots in public auctions before and have the items shipped to BBCE for group breaks. We also broke the 1979 wax tray case from National 2014 together. I feel reasonably confident that we could find a way to work with BBCE to do a vintage vending box break (and in fact I am on assignment in the Chicago area for the next year, so it would not be hard to invest a day at BBCE on a weekend to help make this a reality if we managed to secure such a box).
So if another such vending box were to come up for auction, how many would be interested in such a break if it were to be done transparently in the following increments?
- One hundred groups of 5 cards each (about $85-$100 per group)?
- Fifty groups of 10 cards each (about $170-$200 per group)?
- Twenty-Five groups 20 cards (about $340-$400 per group)?
Remember, Fritsch inventory for 1971 is series 1, 2, 3 and 4, plus they also have other years (1970, 1972, etc.) and multiple sports we could watch for.
Dave
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Sounds like a blast.
Unopened Boxes, Packs, Cards, and Tickets
Just send me a PM or email me for discount off eBay pricing. Thanks
How am I assigned a card? Or am I assigned a number? Or a pack? Or is the number a sequence? Is it filmed? Who decides what cards I get? How is the random? Is there a third party that does all of this? Does the ripper also have a random card? I have a few more questions, but a "for dummies" education would be good here on this thread.
thanks
Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks.
Prefer to buy in bulk.
I like the National idea, maybe BBCE can just host the break at their booth. I am sure someone at the National would be thrilled to sit there an open the vending box, live at the show and live online. Heck, have Reed do it with Joe Orlando or an athlete that collects? DiMitri Young or Evan Mathis anyone?
Host at the BBCE during the National, stream the break live.
Determine host/hosts
Determine live stream website
Determine Randomizer website if required(Typically random.org)
Use the BBCE blog or PSA forums for pertinent and permanent information
Determine Slot Structure
Prepay using Paypal
PSA option to grade onsite?
1. Presell 500 slots ($40 per slot/10 slots for $400?)
2. Have customer select any numbers 1 to 500 based on # of slots they buy
3. Once paid in full, randomize slots on random.org at the National
5. Attach randomized list to number list 1 to 500(Order cards are in vending box)
6. Pre number Semi Rigids 1 to 500
7. Break it live, one card at a time and slide those cards in each corresponding numbered semi rigid.
8. Epic Vintage Group Break!!!
I'm a rookie at this, but there are probably others like me who are interested, but don't have the slightest clue how a break works and the mechanisms in place to prevent fraud. Maybe you can back up for me and explain how this works, and you might get more interest.
How am I assigned a card? Or am I assigned a number? Or a pack? Or is the number a sequence? Is it filmed? Who decides what cards I get? How is the random? Is there a third party that does all of this? Does the ripper also have a random card? I have a few more questions, but a "for dummies" education would be good here on this thread.
thanks
There's many methods from random lottery of draw numbers, to buying your place in line. For example the 1960 vending box thread was looking at having 100 people participate at $200 a pop. If your name drew the #1 slot, you would get the 1, 101, 201, 301, and 401 cards. If you were #100, then of course 100, 200, 300, 400, and 500 cards. I have also seen where everyone's name is tossed in a randomizer and you get your 5 slots scattered among the 500 possible cards. The problem with vending boxes is the cards at either side are usually a bit rougher, so trying to adjust for that would be important. It would not be fair for someone to pay $200 for 5 pulls and you end up getting all the cards at either end.
I think most would agree that a live webcast would be best...plus it allows for others to watch from the sideline.
If we send to Steve at BBCE to do the rip, he could be the unbiased party. Even if we all threw a couple bucks in with our money, it could make it worth his while.
I just see it being different and more exciting knowing that I have 10, 32, 87, 121,222,378,444, 488, etc.....
I'd be in on the 71's for the larger grouped slots.
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.i think the 60 could still be done..whats a '60 PSA 7 common go for? is there a 71 up again? one just sold a few months ago
The second step requires multiple parts:
- securing committed allications for it (which could theoretically be done before a box was available)
- find a payment mechanism and collect the payments in time to pay for it if we win such a box (also
something that could possibly be done ahead of time, like pre-buying the next year's cards from
Topps in December for delivery in the spring)
- win the box at auction at a reasonable price
- pay for the box and have it shipped to a trusted custodian (e.g. BBCE)
The final steps involve organizing and running the break. Elements of this include:
- come up with a randomized allocation strategy regarding what order the cards get assigned to the
people who reserved allications
- identify a show (National, Sun Times, etc.) and a venue (e.g, BBCE booth, etc.) where it can be
done
- arrange for live web casting
- set up 500 card savers (numbered 1-500)
- set up a way to send the cards to those who they belong to
- etc
It's all a large, but not unachieveable, undertaking. If interest seems sufficiently high I will be happy
to start putting some detail around the above outline on the logistics for what I proposed
Dave
Card Country
Graded stars 1950's-1980
My new website www.lowgradegems.com
Tim
Houdini on Blowout is organizing a break for the 1960 vending box too.
Maybe, join forces? I did not read the pricing but looks really popular.
I have some FASC 80s baseball vending, if anyone wants $.10 slots
Shu4040 was organizing the same break yesterday. How is this 1960 box going to be broken down? Videotaped and/or done by Steve?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Matt
1975 Topps Registry Set "Scott's 75 Topps Set"
And before anyone says it, I DO NOT consider vending to be unopened.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
Pretty sure I'd be in as well. Actually I'm sure I'd be in, just not sure how many slots I could talk the wife in to. Talking the wife into multiple slots, just another day in my household.
I laughed
Is this baseball only? any interest in Football or Basketball?
Did they make vending boxes in 69,70,71, and 72 in BSK?
My new website www.lowgradegems.com
Tim
IG: goatcollectibles23
The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
Brian
I'm sure this is very naive as I don't go over there very much, but I had just assumed that most of the guys over there were into modern, so I'm pleasantly surprised to see the spots moving pretty well.
starts making it possible, but perhaps a bit pricey for some.
I was thinking that perhaps a better way to approach this to get more participation is to somewhat treat this like previous group breaks and do
the reservations card-by-card. That way everyone can choose the price point they are most comfortable with. For example, during each 48 hours
from the start of the reservation thread each person can reserve a minimum of 1 card and a maximum of "n" cards (we can determine what "n" will
be once we have a better idea of how many people would be interested, so that we can set it at a level where it is likely that we can fill the full 500
reservations within about 2-3 "passes").
We randomize the selection position of each reserved slot on the day of the break so that no one has any advantage or disadvantage of knowing in
advance that they are getting cards from either end of the box, a group of sequential cards, etc. For example, you might reserve 5 cards in reservation
slots 14-18, but on the day of the break (but before the break) each slot would be randomly assigned to one of the 500 cards, e.g. you might get the 67th,
189th, 245th, 417th and 452nd cards from the "top", or whatever 5 cards happen to get assigned to your slots by the randomizer. Prior to each card being
"pulled" we announce who the card belongs to, then draw the card and carefully place it in a numbered card saver 1.
In terms of the mechanics of allocating and securing such a vintage vending box, my suggestion is that at the time that we become aware of a vintage
vending box being up for auction (or otherwise available for purchase) we would start the reservation thread. Once filled, there would need to be pre-payments
so that the person who will have to bid on the item is not left with a large liability if there are non-payers (and if we were not the high bidder then Paypal transactions
can be easily reversed, including the fees).
The last time we bid "together" on auction items I was able to arrange something with Steve (at BBCE) to collect and hold the payments. I would think we could probably
work something out with him again as long as there was something in it for him too. He tends to try to do things that promote the hobby, so I would think we should be
able to work something out along these lines.
The actual execution of the break could be done at a show (National, Sun Times, etc.), but that might create some challenges for someone who has a booth to
operate (e.g. not sure Steve can personally dedicate 6 or so hours of his time at a show to a vintage vending box break when he also has customers that are not part
of the break coming to his booth looking to buy/sell and speak to him). We can look at how to overcome any such issue. In the meantime, let's not discount the possibility
of doing such a break at BBCE on a Saturday or Sunday instead. It might generate extra weekend traffic and publicity for Steve, while at the same time he might have
more time to personally oversee the effort. In either scenario I would think that several of us would need to volunteer to help execute the break.
Given our past success in collective bidding for a break, I believe that we can be successful on something like this. So let's keep hearing from people who would be interested
in participating and see if we can hit critical mass to make it happen.
Dave
I would be interested in a 1971 break.
There's a very nice '71 box up on the current Heritage auction which you don't see that often
1971 box
As well as a few vending boxes in the auction.
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1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies