A good cleaning as opposed to a bad cleaning?

joeykoins

Hi guy's, I'm sure this question was brought up before. I have a raw 1864 Cent with the "L". I've been told it has been cleaned. This will knock down the value big time. What is the difference in cleaning with acetone (good cleaning) than another cleaning that will lessen the value of the coin? What is being done to receive the "bad cleaning" distinction? Thanks in advance. -joey

Greeniejr

Cleaning as a problem is actually improper cleaning. That means that the coin was hairlined by a manual cleaning or the original surfaces removed by some sort of action. Acetone is not cleaning in the numismatic sense of the word. Think more curation or conservation. In general acetone does not react with the metal and simply removes foreign organic matter and PVC from the surface. There are those who argue that acetone can change the surfaces of copper but that is another debate. For gold and silver, acetone does nothing to the underlying coin so it would not result in a "cleaned coin". Hopefully that helps you.

Insider2

Originally posted by: Greeniejr

Cleaning as a problem is actually improper cleaning.

DITTO!

joeykoins

So, even when using something like acetone, if done improper, can harm the coin? What other solvents can harm the coin even if gentle? also, how can one determine the coin has been cleaned?

steveben

i think cleaning is acceptable as long as what you are doing is not perceived as damaging the coin or the coin's natural patina. acetone does neither to gold or silver.

DollarAfterDollar

Acetone is essentially a rinse. Now the rinse can last for a minute or a week depending on the debris to be removed. When the coin is finally removed, I always rinse with warm water for at least a full minute, then dry with a high quality paper napkin with no embossed pattern. Obverse and reverse. Just lay it on there and press gently (NO RUBBING). I've never had a coin rejected for encapsulation doing this.

There are other chemicals out there that people use. Every one of them does greater harm than acetone, I'm told. Accordingly, I just won't use anything else. If the coin doesn't come clean with acetone then it's probably too far gone.

I'm told boiling circulated pennies is safe but for how long, how many attempts, etc, you're on your own there.

ironmanl63

Do you use acetone on copper? I was under the impression that it was bad for copper. Turns the coin that funny orange.

PTVETTER

Acetone does do something to copper, but not as bad as some other solvents.

Copper is hard to conserve. The BIG problem is PVC that is best treated with acetone.

hchcoin

When someone rubs the coin with a cloth or scrubs the coin with a toothbrush or buffs it with a Dremel. Those are bad cleanings. If the cleaning leaves hairlines, it is bad cleaning. Hairlines are small scratches that all go in the same direction on the coin. Normal wear on a coin is more random. A dip in acetone will not leave hairlines and therefore is considered a good cleaning on gold and silver. A rose thorn is another thing that can be used on coins to remove gunk that is stuck on the coin because it is softer than the metal and won't scratch it so it would be good cleaning. Anything that changes the color of the coin to an unnatural color is a bad cleaning also in my opinion. For example, dipping a bust coin to make it appear shiny will be frowned upon by most collectors and dealers. They are looking for that original look. So dipping an old bust coin is also a bad cleaning in my opinion. On the other hand, dipping a Morgan dollar is acceptable to many collectors and dealers.

joeykoins

Originally posted by: hchcoin
When someone rubs the coin with a cloth or scrubs the coin with a toothbrush or buffs it with a Dremel. Those are bad cleanings. If the cleaning leaves hairlines, it is bad cleaning. Hairlines are small scratches that all go in the same direction on the coin. Normal wear on a coin is more random. A dip in acetone will not leave hairlines and therefore is considered a good cleaning on gold and silver. A rose thorn is another thing that can be used on coins to remove gunk that is stuck on the coin because it is softer than the metal and won't scratch it so it would be good cleaning. Anything that changes the color of the coin to an unnatural color is a bad cleaning also in my opinion. For example, dipping a bust coin to make it appear shiny will be frowned upon by most collectors and dealers. They are looking for that original look. So dipping an old bust coin is also a bad cleaning in my opinion. On the other hand, dipping a Morgan dollar is acceptable to many collectors and dealers.

I think this is the answer that I've been looking for? Now I know what is a "bad cleaning" and what is a "good cleaning"! Thank you guy's. All of you ROCK!-joey

hchcoin

Here is a great example of hairlines:



Link with good discussion

hchcoin

Does anyone have a picture example of a flat, lifeless overdipped coin with MS details but no mint luster to help explain overdipping? It would be great if you could post it side by side with a coin dripping with luster.

ricko

The process of an acetone dip is to remove organic contaminants. Acetone does this very

well.... although sometimes a long soak or even agitation is necessary - the rose thorn will also work on crevice retained contaminants. I recommend a flowing hot water rinse and an alcohol bath following the the acetone. Cheers, RickO

joeykoins

Rose thorn?

TwoSides2aCoin

Originally posted by: joeykoins
Rose thorn?

..." just like every cowboy has a sad , sad song.

Every rose has it's thorn."

It's use for picking dirt from the recesses around the devices, without hurting the metal (scratching). Toothpicks are also used for this type of restoration to as original as can be done.
Not that cleaning is good. Is it worth the time ? Maybe so. Maybe not. Preservation is good.

Slippery slope finding the "good side" of cleaning.