Question for the Indian Head Cent experts..

jtlee321

I just picked up this 1885 Indian Head Cent. The coin is raw and I don't have it in hand yet, but from what the sellers photos look like and what I can compare to HA photos, this looks like it could be a proof to me. What do you think?

If it is a proof, what grade would you guess?

I will photograph it once I receive it.

mannie gray

I agree; could well be a proof.

Rick will be able to tell you for certain.

As for grade, I would be hesitant to make a guess from the photos.

If it is a proof, pics like that one do a great job of hiding hairlines.

jtlee321

You are correct about the photos being able to hide hairlines. But the seller offers a 30 day return policy for a full refund, so if it shows up covered in hairlines, at least I have an option. On the up side, I have bought a few coins from the seller and they have always appeared better in hand than the photo's. :-)

ricko

I am not an expert on the series, but that is a lovely IHC....the rims do not look 'squared off' enough for a proof, however, it certainly gives the appearance of one. I am sure Rick Snow will

be along for the expert input. Cheers, RickO

cmerlo1

No. It doesn't seem to have the sharpness of a proof. I've cherrypicked two of them over the years, and in both cases, it was the sharpness of the design that I noticed before anything else.

jtlee321

Thanks for the opinions guys. It has been shipped and should arrive on Monday. I should know more by then.

By the way, what are the odds that a die pair was used to strike proofs, then re-married to strike business strike coins? I just have no idea about this series.

ironmanl63

To me this looks like a doctored coin. When I first started collecting I bought a good number of indian head cents that looked very similar to these photos from a certain company that is discussed here from time to time. 100% came back as cleaned or altered surfaces. We are talking over 20 coins to the tune of over 20,000. I was able to return them all for a full refund but learned a valuable lesson. I hope I am wrong but that is what I see from these photos. Good luck with this coin!



Matt

ThePennyLady

Doesn't look like a proof to me. Even though there are some sharp features, the rims look beveled (you can tell from bottom half of the photo). Also, no mirrors, though this could be from the photo.

golden

No.

erwindoc

Perhaps the strike doubling is making the surfaces extra sharp.

Connecticoin

Hmm, looks like another Great Southern Coins ebay listing . . . .

segoja

No

jtlee321

It's not a Great Southern Coins listing. I stay way away from them. As I have said, it is from a seller that I have bought from in the past with no problems. I should see how the actual coin looks in hand on Monday, that's when it is scheduled for delivery. If the surfaces look messed with or there are any other "problems" with it, I will be returning it. But, from past experiences, I'm thinking I'll be very happy with it, we shall see.

sellitstore

I don't think so.

Lacks squared rims and strike isn't quite as sharp as I'd expect.

davewesen

they seem like nice pictures, I hope your coin looks like that.

roadrunner

Could be a proof. You will know for sure when you get to see if it has a wide flat and crisp edge. Like much minor coinage in the 1860-1900 period, the Indian cent proofs are not always 100% sharp. The mirrors and edge will decide it. But, it's sharp enough on details while the rims do appear beveled, esp obv from 6-8 o'clock.



Can't say it's doctored. Some of the obv surfaces look to have the orange peel effect, which would be indicative of proofs....or acid etched business strikes. If the surfaces aren't altered, it could grade 64/65.

Shamika

I'm not an IHC expert, but the strike certainly can't get much better than that.

jtlee321

So the coin arrived today... And it will be going back tomorrow... It has mirror like fields, but the edges are beveled. The problem I have, is the coin has been harshly cleaned. There is pretty bad hairlines all over it and the color is just wrong. It will never straight grade anywhere. Thankfully the dealer I bought it from has a very good return policy. This is the first problem coin I have bought from them. I hope it is just a fluke. Anyway, here are my images of it.

The first set are using a standard lighting setup to reveal the surfaces.



Here it is with axial lighting that does somewhat hide the surface issues. Personally, if I was selling this coin, it would get a complete and full disclosure.



Oh well, it was worth a try and it is one of the reasons why I will only buy from a dealer with a return policy.

lkeigwin

You may be correct. Just don't confuse die polish lines with cleaning.

Lance.

Bochiman

Good choice in sending it back.



From the original pictures, I was pretty sure it wasn't a proof. Pretty positive.



From your new pics, I would agree with the harsh cleaning. Do not look like die polish, but definitely a harsh cleaning.

jtlee321

Oh I'm aware of die polish lines versus hairlines from a harsh cleaning.

Here is a link to a zoomify file of a full resolution detail shot of the lower part of the obverse.

1885 Zoomify

jtlee321

Looking at it up close, it's a nice little RPD..