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PCI Grading Standards
Boosibri
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Any experience on the general perspective of how conservative relative to current standards the PCI graders were while active?
I bought a PCI gold coin for one grade down money with 2x profit if it crosses and 10x profit if it upgrades. My only experience is a single upgrade but that is obviously not representative.
Thoughts or experiences?
I bought a PCI gold coin for one grade down money with 2x profit if it crosses and 10x profit if it upgrades. My only experience is a single upgrade but that is obviously not representative.
Thoughts or experiences?
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I've found PCI gold over-graded and rarely cross at grade.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
OLDEST green label - three codes on back, pretty solid, especially with today's grade flation.
Other greens not as good
'Fake' greens (deceptive 2010s - you can tell because the micro printing PCI PCI PCI that makes up the box is just a blob, not letters) - deceptive
Gold box - trash
Current incarnation (the label looks like a bullet train on tracks) - no data
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
PCI changed ownership several times. The earliest PCI with 10 digit serial numbers were fairly conservatively graded. Later green label PCI slabs can be hit or miss. Treat the later non-green PCI slabbed coins as being raw and you'll be okay.
This.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Latin American Collection
PCI changed ownership several times. The earliest PCI with 10 digit serial numbers were fairly conservatively graded. Later green label PCI slabs can be hit or miss. Treat the later non-green PCI slabbed coins as being raw and you'll be okay.
This.
Also, as mentioned earlier, some later green slabs came out with 10 digits that are terrible. The 14 digit green slabs were starting to be bad. The gold labels are all overgraded. Avoid the new blue label holders like the black plague.
Post an image of the front and back and I'll be able to tell which one you have.
It's an old 10 digit holder which is why I went after it. Gold $5 Indian in 64. Bought in the Netherlands. Will post pics later.
Be cautious, $5 gold indians were heavily counterfeited, many with actual gold.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Since then only bought slabs in holders of the 4 TPG accepted as such by eBay: ANACS, ICG, NGC, PCGS. Now only PCGSS.
I was once offered a PCI better date gold at a coin graded XF45 which looked AU58 at a very tempting price. I had some problems with the coin however. I passed on it - another dealer bought it.
Latin American Collection
It's an old 10 digit holder which is why I went after it. Gold $5 Indian in 64. Bought in the Netherlands. Will post pics later.
If the reverse looks like this, you are screwed.
You're Screwed. Sorry.
That slab came out about 5 to 7 years ago and every single one I have seen is terrible. They tried to fool us with the 10 digit number, but the coin descriptor is a five digit code and that is the dead giveaway.
Latin American Collection
As with the other TPGS's some gold label coins are OK but most are not. I have seen some modern "blue" PCI coins that are also OK.
Those collectors who know how to grade have done VERY WELL buying PCI slabs. That goes for ALL the TPGS's...BUY THE COIN NOT THE HOLDER.
PCI changed ownership several times. The earliest PCI with 10 digit serial numbers were fairly conservatively graded. Later green label PCI slabs can be hit or miss. Treat the later non-green PCI slabbed coins as being raw and you'll be okay.
10-4,
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Here is an example of this "NEWER" green 10 digit label. The coin would be worth 20K and I bought it for 200 bucks, and still got the shaft by the way.
K
Most later PCI reincarnations used the Arial font on their slabs.
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Latin American Collection
PCI changed ownership several times. The earliest PCI with 10 digit serial numbers were fairly conservatively graded....
I ran into a group of early PCI better date MS teens and twenties d/s buffs that were all basically under-graded. I sold the whole group to specialists in those holders for a strong premium to the assigned grades. Though I've looked for those early holders since, I haven't found anything.
Good to know that these are "faking" those 10 digits in later years. I still look at the coin though. If it's solid for the grade, I'm in. $5 Indians in MS64 are so tough to find, that even an early PCI holder might assure you anything but a MS63.
The dash between the date and the mintmark is a second 'tell' as the good insert (vs the bad) has a much longer dash line.
The good PCI is getting scarce as so many of these coins have been cracked or crossed by now.
The gold coin shown above is deceptive in many sellers believe it was from the 'good-old-days' yet wasn't PCI's finest hour.
Not to say, of course- the coin above won't be a true charmer. Just the likelihood is less so.
peacockcoins
Latin American Collection
No one will remember what a font is supposed to look like, but you should be able to spot that 5 digit code with ease.
The easiest way to tell if the green label is the newer garbage one, is to look for the 5 digit number below the barcode on the reverse. If it is there, run for the hills. Look at the example I posted above and on Boosibri's example.
No one will remember what a font is supposed to look like, but you should be able to spot that 5 digit code with ease.
Thanks for that help. Now we have a simple memory aid: "5 and dime." 5 and 10 bad.
BTW, look for the early PCI blue scrolled edged holders (instead of green and with the earlier type of font I tried to explain above) for early world coins
I think I may own two or three- I rarely see them
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I have found the purple labels will cross at grade or above.
I would like to see the "purple" label. I hope it is not the newest blue/white label that is out on eBay right now? Those are even worse than the fake green 10 digit labels.
HERE IS AN EXAMPLE ON EBAY:
as Braddick stated, the easiest way to tell the good from the bad is the font used, I remember that the "6" was different, and since most of what we tend towards is Mint State it was helpful. on the good slabs the "6" runs straight up and doesn't curl over(at least that's what I remember, which is why I saved the pictures).
That's what I look for too. the straight '6'.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
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I've purchased numerous early green border PCI holdered U.S. coins, have never lost money on crossovers of them to PCGS, and in most cases made reasonable profits. The latest was an 1807 Draped Bust half PCI VF30 that crossed to PCGS VF25 and sold for a 20% profit despite the downgrade.
Even found a BU early Philippine Peso which was purchased at an antique mall that was in a early red border holder because it had PVC on the surface. An quick crackout and acetone bath turned the coin in to a gorgeous MS63.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
The service was more expense and took much more time as the coins were actually sent from PCI to the various contributors.
I think there was fallout when some were not paid. . . don't recall the specifics.
Every now and then I'll see one offered on eBay and it brings back those memories.
peacockcoins
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Who here remembers when PCI sponsored the, "Signature Series"? For example, Rick Tomaska would sign (copy of his signature, really) the insert for a Kennedy half- signifying he had a role in the grading of it.
The service was more expense and took much more time as the coins were actually sent from PCI to the various contributors.
I think there was fallout when some were not paid. . . don't recall the specifics.
Every now and then I'll see one offered on eBay and it brings back those memories.
These were what I referred to as the purple labels, signature series.
from the net:
Around late 2006 Beardsley tried to revive PCI's reputation with the return of the Signature Series slabs. For a little extra your coins would be examined by recognized experts in the individual series, graded, varieties identified, and the label signed by the expert. In early 2007 J T Stanton was brought into the company to oversee the new program. Unfortunately Brian Beardsley died shortly there after and his wife took over control of the company. The company declined financially and they stopped paying the expert examiners and the Signature Series died with J T leaving in Sept 2007. By Nov the company folded. The assets of the company were originally scheduled for sale in Jan of 2008, later rescheduled to Feb where they were purchased by David Lawrence Rare Coins. They used the equipment and supplies to create a new grading service Dominion Grading Service.
Most were not graded but rather simply identified on the insert.
peacockcoins
I use to have an example.....
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Somebody once told me that PCI stood for "Problem Coin Inside."
I've heard "Professionally Certified Ineptitude" as well.
Trying to think early 90's?
Everything is all right!