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Roman Constantius ??
Andres
Posts: 977 ✭✭✭
I'm Not sure about this guy , please help.
collector of Greek banknotes - most beautifull world banknotes - Greek & Roman ancient coins.
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Andres
Posts: 977 ✭✭✭
I'm Not sure about this guy , please help.
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Spearing the fallen enemy horseman with a slogan...
FEL TEMP REPERATIO 'happy days are here again'
PS you should have enough info to go to Wildwinds.com and tie both coins down more precisely.
and today they are still $2 a piece
I bought these roman coins to get more familiar with the late roman issues, and you are a great help.
and today they are still $2 a piece
Good for you. A great, almost no risk way to start educating yourself and learn how the references work, etc. And the coins you show are well above the normal bulk lot. Get a few books - such as the Sear Roman and Greek books, older editions are fine - and you're already well on your way
but I am confused about all these Constantine the great sons & nephews , they all look the same to me, books dont help much in this case.
I maneged to decipher the ones that are different in design, like this one:
... but I am confused about all these Constantine the great sons & nephews , they all look the same to me, books don't help much in this case.
The obv and rev legends help narrow these down.
You can do a direct google search on the legend text,
then look at the photos in wildwinds.
Or you can search on partial legends in the tool at John Jencek's site:
http://www.jhecoins.com/obverselegends.htm
I used these tools to id Constantius I vs. Constantius II for 48 coins that I photographed;
47 of them were Constantius II.
The Constantius I was the only one of these with obv legend
CONSTANTIVS NOB CAES
For example, using your coin, if I search on google for
DN CONSTANTIVS PF AVG FEL TEMP REPARATIO
The first wildwinds link I get is:
http://www.wildwinds.com/coins.../constantius_II/i.html
You can then use Crtl-F to search for additional text like BSIS
When I do that in the Google Chrome browser, it tells me there are 15 occurrences of BSIS
on the page and puts the cursor on the first one. I can then look at its description, legend text, photos, etc. Or move on to the next occurence, etc.
The first couple of examples with BSIS are GLORIA EXERCITVS,
so you can continue down until the ones with FEL TEMP REPARATIO .
(Normally you would search on FEL TEMP REPARATIO within the page,
but sometimes spacing matters, so you could search on FEL TEMP; the methods vary).
Or, using John Jencek's Obverse Legends tool, if I search on:
DNCONSTANTIVSPFAVG
it shows me:
Results for: DNCONSTANTIVSPFAVG
Legend Emperor
DNCONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNCONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius III A.D.421
Well, they do pretty much all look alike. That was done intentionally at the time to show the unity of the imperial family following the wars that solidified Constantine I's position. And Yosclimber is quite right, the obverse legends pretty much narrow the coins down altho coins with incomplete legends can be a challenge since individual features/characteristics were minimized.
But as with almost anything else, as you handle/see a number of coins of the period, you'll find it becomes relatively easy to correctly (usually) assign an unidentified coin to a specific emperor and even rough time period by eye.
That's makes it difficult to do a search.
Heres another one, a puzzle for me, but probably not a big problem for an expert in late Roman stuff ?
Thanks for your advice Yos, but the problen is , I cant read the legends on the obverse as well as the reverse.
That's makes it difficult to do a search.
Heres another one, a puzzle for me, but probably not a big problem for an expert in late Roman stuff ?
The lettering can take a bit of getting used to and runs together altho it certainly is easier as you gain experience about the types and what to look for.
It's a coin of Valens. Here's the obverse legend: DNVALEN - SPFAUG which roughly translates as "Our Lord Valens, Pius Felix Augustus. You have to break it down to DN VALENS PF AUG. DN, PF and AUG are all abbreviated titles commonly used during the period so what's left in this case is the emperor's name VALENS.
The reverse is the Gloria Romanorum (which is the legend) type with the emperor dragging a captive. The mint is the 3rd workshop of Thessalonica (TES gamma). You didn't provide the size, but I think it's the 3rd bronze size (AE 3) about the size of a US cent.
That's another pretty nice coin for 2.50 - does your seller have more? Wouldn't mind getting a handful to play with.
edited to correct a typo (AR3 to AE 3)
Since they are often:
- irregular
- worn
- missing from the usual off center strike
Here, since you know it's late Roman due to the portrait similarity,
you would benefit by having a short list of obverse and reverse legends from that time,
to match with your coin. There is an excellent list here:
http://www.romancoin.info/
If you scroll down, in Part 3, you'll see the right portrait type, and
DN VALENS PF AVG in the obverse legend.
An alternative method is to use the letters you are sure of, with a wildcard,
in John Jencek's tool. I searched for *LENSPFAVG and it worked fine.
The DN VA on your coin looked more like OR VP to me; that's the way it goes
with those irregular punches!
In the meantime, another coin which I cant make out, despite the info.
edited to add - I just saw the size and weght...DUH to me. Definitely a "quarter."
Confirmed to Siscia RIC VI 171a or so (search on this page for SEVERVS NOB C,
until it appears in combination with GENIO POPVLI ROMANI):
http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/severus_II/i.html
(not sure if 171a covers the correct denomination, though - I'm a rookie)
My methods fail on this one.
I can see ?????VS NOB C on the obverse, and all the reverse legend,
but it's hard to search on this.
*VSNOBC does not narrow it down enough in Jencek's search tool,
using ?????VSNOBC does not work correctly (matches more than 5 chars).
The FORVM Legend Search does work correctly, using _ for each of the 5 chars: _____VSNOBC:
http://www.romancoin.info/#FOR...man Coin Legend Search
However, it does not link to a nice comprehensive page on Severus II (like the wildwinds page).
The reverse legend is common across many emperors, so google doesn't help.
I was thinking maybe CRISPVS NOB C, but the 3rd letter is definitely not an I!
Plus it's (slightly) pre-Constantine, so it doesn't appear on the page I linked.
The coin dates from 305-6, right after the abdication of Diocletian and Maximian and rearrangement of the tetrarchy. Fairly historic coin and a very nice find in a bulk lot.
and not the actual books.
(I learned what I could when helping a friend evaluate an inherited collection;
he had unfortunately previously donated all the books!)
I found RIC 167b and 169b on the Galerius page:
http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/galerius/i.html
Here is one with a high relief of the emperor / caeser , really nice coin imho, no idear who it actually is
Your new coin is one of Maximinus II as Caesar. Obverse is GAL VAL MAXIMINUS NOB C and is RIC 170b also of Siscia and of the same issue as your nicer Severus.
I managed to look up this Constans, not sure about the mint place though.
The reverse legend is more like VOT XX MVLT XXX, and is explained as reverse 13 on
http://www.romancoin.info/
"Because of [soldiers'] vows, twenty years (already served) and with more vows, thirty."
The mint letters are often hard to read (especially when the coin is fairly off center).
Here they look like ? M K/R A/Delta .
The first one might be S.
Here it may be helpful to have a list of mint letters to compare with - lower down on the above page:
http://www.romancoin.info/#Roman Mints and Officina
So it might be:
- SMK Delta for Cyzicus, 4th Officina.
- SMR Delta for Rome, 4th Officina.
On the previous one, I could eventually match it to GAL VAL MAXIMINVS NOB C,
but it took 1-2 minutes, and I had seen this legend before.
I started by looking at the end, looking for familiar patterns like PF AVG or NOB C.
Then look at the letters before that. NVS fairly plain, but the others less so.
Eventually I saw MAX which appears fairly often, and I could fill in IMI.
This isolated the 6 letters in front, and I had seen GAL VAL before.
Usually the V letters are the clearest.
On the reverse it's the same figure and legend as on a previous coin,
but with many of the letters corroded/missing. GENIO POPULI ROMANI , SIS .
To be continued ..
imho the legend both on the reverse and obverse reads DN CONSTANTINUS AUG - vows star XX 20 years mint: no idear
I'm seeing:
Obv: CONSTANTINVS AVG
Rev: DN CONSTANTINI MAX AVG
VOT * XX
???
Those 3 mint letters are nearly gone. The middle one might be N?
Last one maybe Delta?
If middle one is N and last is Delta, the list of mint letters on the page I linked suggests
the possibles are:
AN Delta Antioch
LN Delta London
MN Delta Nicomedia
I think the * might also indicate a mint in some cases?
Well, then this is a quarter follis with a weight of 1,25 gram ?
I managed to look up this Constans, not sure about the mint place though.
This is a coin of Cyzicus, 4th workshop (SMK delta).
No this is not a quarter follis. Between your Severus and Max II and this coin, there was a fair amount of tinkering with the coinage both in terms of weight (mostly decreasing) and its nominal value in terms of both units of account and the bronze coins' relationship to the silvers and gold. There is limited contemporary documentation. and disagreement of what some of it means, from this period with the primary evidence being the physical attributes of the coins. Consequently there are several of competing theories of how things rolled out. These are interesting reads, but in the absence of definitive documentation all are speculative to some degree and all have issues/problems to a greater or lesser extent. So, rather than getting bogged down in trying to pin down the exact denomination, the very small coppers of this period are generally referred to as 4th bronzes (AE 4).
imho the legend both on the reverse and obverse reads DN CONSTANTINUS AUG - vows star XX 20 years mint: no idear
Tentatively I think it's an AE 3 of Constantine I (the Great) from Ticinium, RIC vol 7 Ticinum 130. The mintmark is * in the field (below the VOT) and in exergue one of PT, ST, or TT where the first letter is the workshop.
I really can't make out much of the mintmark on the photo beyond suggesting that there appears to be 2 letters. So while I'm not positive of this attribution, the type seems to have been struck only in a few mints and only Ticinum used the * with a 2 letter exergue mintmark. FWIW none of London, Nicomedia nor Antioch used the VOT XX per RIC.
PS, the obverse and reverse legends are different. The obverse lacks the DN and MAX incorporated in the reverse legend.
Looking at images of higher grade specimens, I can see I was mistaking
the right ribbon for a letter.
I think this one is a Constantinus III emperor for 7 months in 421 - VOT . X between palmleaves - mint FOS ?
I'd be curious how you came up with Ce III for this.
What I see is obverse legend of CONSTANTINVSIVNNOBC. It's a lot easier if you break down the legend into its pieces which in this case is CONSTANTINVS IVN NOB C (Constantine Junior Noble Caesar) and reverse of CAESARVM NOSTRORVM with VOT . X between leaves and AQS in exergue (I actually only see AQ? but will accept the S you mention). This would be a coin of Constantine II as Caesar (a subordinate position) from Aquileia, second workshop (S). RIC vol 7 (Aquileia) 111.
thanks again for correcting & helping me out.
poor Eyesight ? I'm CONSTANTly in error with that family
thanks again for correcting & helping me out.
No prob, didn't mean any disrespect, just trying to understand how you are approaching these.
The last relative of Constantine I to rule was Julian II who died 363. Constantine III was, as far as I can tell, not related but just had the same name. Sear's Roman Coins and their Values by David Sear has nice summaries of each ruler, common titles and types, mintmarks, etc. Getting an older single volume edition (eg 1988 is the newest I have) should be inexpensive and will serve you well in your ongoing education, in sorting out the different personalities and putting the coins in their proper historical context.
heres another try out:
I think perhaps you read it as CONSTANTINVS III N NOB C,
and it does appear that way. But it's just the crudeness in trying to make the V with 2 hits of the I punch, I think.
My approach was to search for CONSTANTINVSIII in Jencek's tool,
even though I don't recall emperors using a number after their name.
No occurrences were found.
So I shortened it to CONSTANTINVS and it showed me all the obverse legends that start that way.
I could see it ended with NOBC, so in the list I could see IVN were the missing letters. This IDed it as:
CONSTANTINVSIVNNOBC Constantine II A.D. 337-340
Then I went to the wildwinds page to help with the reverse.
http://www.wildwinds.com/coins.../constantine_II/i.html
Originally I thought the revese had CONSTANTINOSTRORV, but that wasn't listed,
and it's CAESARVM NOSTRORVM . CAES looks similar to CONS in shape...
On the photo and page you can see it's VOT dot X in the wreath, then several options for the mintmarks,
AQS, AQT, etc. with/without dots.
(If you wanted to narrow it down to a specific RIC number).
Thanks for posting the puzzles, and letting me tag along and learn from STLNATS's methods.
occurs for all 3 rulers (Valentinian, Valentinian II, Valentinian III).
The romancoin.info guide suggests the GLORIA ROMANORUM reverse does not
occur with Valentinian II.
However, the wildwinds pages show this reverse for Valentinian II.
Nice work on the reverse and mint. The legend is fairly complete and legible, which helps a lot!
Looking in the 2 wildwinds pages for the field marks and mint marks, there are only 1 or 2
GLORIA ROMANORVM shown for Valentinian II, with no field marks, so it's likely Valentinian I.
Many field marks and mint marks are listed. It appears to be:
RIC 14a, xxxiv var Valentinian I, AE3. Siscia. DN VALENTINI-ANVS PF AVG, pearl diademed, draped, cuirassed bust right / GLORIA RO-MANORVM, emperor advancing right, holding labarum, dragging captive behind him. F in left field, R over Symbol 4 (A with a curled top) in right field. Mintmark BSISCS. RIC IX Siscia 14a, type xxxiv var (Unlisted fieldmark for this group).
I think it's Mintmark BSISC Symbol 1 (zigzag), not BSISCS , though.
http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/valentinian_I/i.html
Tomorrow I will post another one, hopefully with a good description.
Do you recognize the reverse legend / figure?
Mint looks more like SIC to me.
But neither SVC nor SIC are in the list of mintmarks.
A next step might be to look on a wildwind page for examples with this obverse
and reverse legend, and see what mint marks are listed.
This worked for me. It went quick because there was only 1 occurrence of the obverse legend on the page.
The obverse may be tricky because the V in CONSTANTIVS might look like 2 letters,
since the 2 lines in the V are not very well joined at the bottom.
Then what looks like T I I I S might be considered as T I N V S . But T I V S is a better fit.
On the reverse, the last S in SIS seems clearly made with a C punch, and then a line
punch under it to form the crude S. Very sneaky. :-)
This is likely DN VALENTINIANVS PF AVG .
On the reverse, on the right side, I recognize REIPVBLICAE .
This is a common obverse / reverse combination shown on the romancoin.info page.
You can look at the few photos / legends there to complete the stuff you can't read.
Figure is the angel of victory advancing left. star above A in the left field.
Mint mark is difficult since it's partly off the coin. Looks like ?SS?? .
However the mint mark list doesn't show any with 2 consecutive Ss.
Looking on the wildwinds Valentinian I page for the left field marks, I found:
RIC 7a,vi(b) Valentinian I AE3. 364-367 AD, DN VALENTINIANVS P F AVG, pearl-diademed, draped and cuirassed bust right / SECVRITAS REIPVBLICAE, Victory advancing left, holding wreath and palm. Star over A in left field. Mintmark D?SISC. RIC IX Siscia 7a, type vi(b).
which sounds close.
I photographed several like this a few months ago, but had not gotten around to determining the mint or RIC attribution.
So your photos and quest have been helpful for me in exploring the process.
There are only a few things the first letters on the obverse can be.
So just look at the small number of examples on
http://www.romancoin.info/#Ide...ate Roman Bronze Coins
and you'll figure out what they are.
But I Think it reads : FL VAL
That searchlink doesn't work , probably doing something wrong.
But I Think it reads : FL VAL
FL VAL would be the standard formula.
It does not work for a copy/paste because the forum software puts ... into the link display text.
I thought this obverse legend starts with FL IVL .
It's in the first row of example obverses on the linked page if you can reach it.
I don't know if this legend ends with NOB C or with AVG - letters hard to read there.
The examples page is missing the FL VAL CONSTANTIVS examples, so it's not comprehensive
like I implied.
Here's a full list of obverse legends containing CONSTANIVS, from John Jencek's tool:
Legend Emperor
CONSTANTIVSAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
CONSTANTIVSAVGVST Constantius II A.D. 337-361
CONSTANTIVSAVGVSTVS Constantius II A.D. 337-361
CONSTANTIVSC Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSCAE Constantius Gallus (Caesar A.D. 351-354)
CONSTANTIVSCAES Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSCAESAR Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSETCONSTANSAVGG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
CONSTANTIVSETMAXIMIANVSNBC Constantius I & Galerius
CONSTANTIVSMAXAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
CONSTANTIVSN Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNBC Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNC Constantius II A.D. 337-361
CONSTANTIVSNOBC Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNOBCAE Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNOBCAES Constantius Gallus (Caesar A.D. 351-354)
CONSTANTIVSNOBCAES Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNOBCAESAR Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNOBCAS Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNOBCE Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNOBCS Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNOBIC Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNOBILC Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNOBILCAES Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSNOBILCAESAR Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
CONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DIVVSCONSTANTIVS Constantius I A.D. 305-306
DNCONSTANTIVSAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNCONSTANTIVSAVGVSTVS Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNCONSTANTIVSFORTCAES Constantius Gallus (Caesar A.D. 351-354)
DNCONSTANTIVSIVNNOBC Constantius Gallus (Caesar A.D. 351-354)
DNCONSTANTIVSIVNNOBCAES Constantius Gallus (Caesar A.D. 351-354)
DNCONSTANTIVSMAXAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNCONSTANTIVSMAXAVGVSTVS Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNCONSTANTIVSNOBC Constantius Gallus (Caesar A.D. 351-354)
DNCONSTANTIVSNOBCAES Constantius Gallus (Caesar A.D. 351-354)
DNCONSTANTIVSNOBCS Constantius Gallus (Caesar A.D. 351-354)
DNCONSTANTIVSPERPAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNCONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNCONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius III A.D.421
DNCONSTANTIVSPIVSFELAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNCONSTANTIVSVICTORAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNCONSTANTIVSVICTPFAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNFLCLCONSTANTIVSNOBCABS Constantius Gallus (Caesar A.D. 351-354)
DNFLCLCONSTANTIVSNOBCAES Constantius Gallus (Caesar A.D. 351-354)
DNFLCONSTANTIVSAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNFLCONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
DNIVLCONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
FALVALCONSTANTIVSNOBCAES Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLAVALCONSTANTIVSNOBCAES Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLIVLCONSTANTIVSAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
FLIVLCONSTANTIVSNOBC Constantius II A.D. 337-361
FLIVLCONSTANTIVSNOBCAES Constantius Gallus (Caesar A.D. 351-354)
FLIVLCONSTANTIVSPERPAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
FLIVLCONSTANTIVSPERPAVGV Constantius II A.D. 337-361
FLIVLCONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
FLIVLCONSTANTIVSPIVSFELIX Constantius II A.D. 337-361
FLIVLCONSTANTIVSPIVSFELIXAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
FLVACONSTANTIVSNOBCAES Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLVALCONSTANTIVSNC Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLVALCONSTANTIVSNOBC Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLVALCONSTANTIVSNOBC Constantius II A.D. 337-361
FLVALCONSTANTIVSNOBCAE Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLVALCONSTANTIVSNOBCAES Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLVALCONSTANTIVSNOBCAESAR Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLVALCONSTANTIVSNOBILC Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLVALCONSTANTIVSNOBILCAES Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLVALCONSTANTIVSNOBILISSIMVSC Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLVLACONSTANTIVSNOBCAES Constantius I A.D. 305-306
FLVLCONSTANTIVSNOBCAES Constantius I A.D. 305-306
IMPCCONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
IMPCFLVALCONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
IMPCFLVCONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
IMPCONSTANTIVSAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
IMPCONSTANTIVSAVG Constantius II A.D. 337-361
IMPCONSTANTIVSNOBC Constantius II A.D. 337-361
IMPCONSTANTIVSPAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
IMPCONSTANTIVSPFAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
IMPCONSTANTIVSPFELAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
IMPCONSTANTIVSPIFELAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
IMPCONSTANTIVSPIVSFAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
IMPCONSTANTIVSPIVSFELAVG Constantius I A.D. 305-306
IVLCONSTANTIVSNOBC Constantius I A.D. 305-306
Made some more pictures, this what I get: