Options
UK NCLT not redeemable for cash. Could US follow suit?
Zoins
Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
The British Royal Mint is now refusing to redeem commemorative coins at face value.
Could other countries follow their lead?
Could other countries follow their lead?
0
Comments
but if people are willing to buy such coins they need to be aware of the laws that are in place
that govern such items
coins for sale
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zhzgx5nmxk4H2sM59
I can think of Zero Examples of "Legal Tender" US Commemoratives which have an intrinsic precious metal content less than the marked legal tender value. As such, turning them in to a bank would be as silly as those folks that turn in Morgans for face value. Literally ANYBODY that knows ANYTHING about silver coins would not hesitate to pay the buck for a Morgan so the banks here wouldn't lose anything. Pay a dollar for a Silver Eagle? Absolutely! How many you got at that price!!
Heck, even the 5 oz Hockey Pucks are only worth 25 cents!
What are our gold commemoratives marked as? The Mark Twain is $5. The National Parks is $5.
First Spouses are $10.
As for other countries? I don't buy foreign on the premise that I could legally spend them when I'm over seas so it's really a moot point.
The name is LEE!
US law (31 U.S. Code § 5112) authorizes the striking and issue of US coinage and declares such coinage to be legal tender.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
At least US commemoratives will always be worth melt value.
Don't forget the clad commems!
At least US commemoratives will always be worth melt value.
Don't forget the clad commems!
The UK's mistake was issuing the face value above the melt value.
With the US having one ounce $50 gold and $100 platinum coins, it shouldn't be an issue here until the PM's take a massive nose dive.
I used to sell them on ebay, but you cant get rid of them so I don't any longer
In England of course Bank of England notes are universally accepted, and Scottish banknotes are tolerated particularly in the north of England but not in the south. N. Ireland notes only circulate in N. Ireland, and are tolerated in some ports in Scotland where there exists trade hither and tither.
Back in the 1970's after gold became legal to own again the Franklin Mint did a good business striking "legal tender" gold coins for countries like Jamaica and Panama. Many of them were even sold as "redeemable in U.S. Dollars." A writer named Les Fox decided to test the legal tender status of these coins, and he showed up at the Central Bank of Panama (or whatever they call it) with $10,000 face in Panamanian gold asking to redeem it. He was refused. He did the same in several other Caribbean nations and was refused every time. He then came back and wrote an expose and destroyed that market as a sham.
Years ago the Japanese government issued a 100,000 Yen gold commemorative. Years later somebody attempted to redeem several of them and the Japanese government lied and said they were counterfeit. They were not.
Canada issued large five and ten dollar silver commemoratives for the 1976 Olympics. When silver cratered after the Hunt Brothers fiasco they became worth more as currency than as melt value and somebody attempted to deposit a bunch of them in their bank account...and the bank refused them, and the Canadian government sided with the bank. Eventually the RCM agreed to take the coins at face value if you were purchasing new RCM product.
Back in the 1970's after gold became legal to own again the Franklin Mint did a good business striking "legal tender" gold coins for countries like Jamaica and Panama. Many of them were even sold as "redeemable in U.S. Dollars." A writer named Les Fox decided to test the legal tender status of these coins, and he showed up at the Central Bank of Panama (or whatever they call it) with $10,000 face in Panamanian gold asking to redeem it. He was refused. He did the same in several other Caribbean nations and was refused every time. He then came back and wrote an expose and destroyed that market as a sham.
Years ago the Japanese government issued a 100,000 Yen gold commemorative. Years later somebody attempted to redeem several of them and the Japanese government lied and said they were counterfeit. They were not.
Canada is pulling the same crap now with these $20 coins and people have tried to redeem them and been refused.
The concept of "legal tender" is quite a bit different in Great Britain and has been for a long time. For instance Bank of England issued banknotes are legal tender in England and Wales only in all amounts issued - in Scotland and N. Ireland they only have legal tender coins, but only up to certain amounts ie 20p for 1p coins etc. Bank of England notes are NOT legal tender in Scotland or N. Ireland, back when 1 Pound notes were issued only the 1 Pound note was legal tender in both places. Now no 1 Pound notes are issued anywhere in Great Britain, only coins.
In England of course Bank of England notes are universally accepted, and Scottish banknotes are tolerated particularly in the north of England but not in the south. N. Ireland notes only circulate in N. Ireland, and are tolerated in some ports in Scotland where there exists trade hither and tither.
I have spent Bank of Scotland notes many times in London, but I always ask first. Because the Scottish notes change rather frequently, some smaller London merchants aren't happy to get them, because they aren't sure how to determine a counterfeit.
In my experience pubs almost always take them.
I always say that if silver goes to $1 and gold to $20,
having coins with higher face values will be the LEAST
of our problems!
At least in France and Germany pre-Euro you could redeem the high denomination coins, ie 100FF and 10DM coins that were silver, but worth more than the melt value of the silver.
Most of the European country's really P*ss me off. I probably have over $1000 in exchange of pre Euro Coins.
This is why the dollar is king as the US does honor the coins they issue. Ever stop and think how much money most of Europe stole from the rest of the world? France is one of the worst as they demonetized quite a few coins before the Euro!
For example one country might issue a 1 ounce Silver Coin ( silver melt value 15 Klopzens ) with a face value of 100 Klopzens. They would "sell" the Coins for
100 Klopzens , or "face value". Seemingly you might feel your risk wasn't too bad since it seemed like you could always spend
the Coin for exactly what you had in it. Seeing this as hurting their profit potential, some Banks backed out of the deal. No
more redemption for what they had charged for the Coin.
Not something to do if you want to keep your Customers satisfied.
One definition of money is the expectation that you're not the last one to be holding the hot potato. Coins, paper currency, vials of crack, gold bars, pigs, chickens and many more have value in at least part because there is the expectation that someone else will want them. Whether that party is the ostensible end user or not isn't necessarily relevant to the current owner of a dollar bill or a chicken: the current owner is primarily interested in obtaining whatever good or service that they currently need (or might need in the future, I suppose).
I'm sure a lot of places would take those commems. Places that are fully legal, semi legal and outright illegal. Same thing goes for any other form of "currency".
I'm reminded of a PBS story from about 15 years ago about some artist who drew his own currency and tried to pay for it at Starbucks, etc. Some people would take it, some wouldn't, some would call the cops. And this isn't the only guy who's ever tried that, obviously. Lots of artists, celebs, musicians throughout history have tried to pay for meals for example with photos, autographs, drawings on napkins. Again, it speaks to the fundamental nature of barter.
Lastly, I'm sure that you guys have heard stories, may have even been some of you, of the poor saps who go to Best Buy to purchase a fridge with 500 $2 bills. The dumb#(%* teenaged clerk who has been programmed to "say something if you see something" freaks out and the poor sap gets arrested for "passin weird lookin munney".
The concept of "legal tender" is quite a bit different in Great Britain and has been for a long time. For instance Bank of England issued banknotes are legal tender in England and Wales only in all amounts issued - in Scotland and N. Ireland they only have legal tender coins, but only up to certain amounts ie 20p for 1p coins etc. Bank of England notes are NOT legal tender in Scotland or N. Ireland, back when 1 Pound notes were issued only the 1 Pound note was legal tender in both places. Now no 1 Pound notes are issued anywhere in Great Britain, only coins.
In England of course Bank of England notes are universally accepted, and Scottish banknotes are tolerated particularly in the north of England but not in the south. N. Ireland notes only circulate in N. Ireland, and are tolerated in some ports in Scotland where there exists trade hither and tither.
Are you sure? I was in Belfast this past summer and recall using Bank of England notes. Definitely used British coins up to 2 pounds, still have them in my drawer.
Most of the European country's really P*ss me off. I probably have over $1000 in exchange of pre Euro Coins.
This is why the dollar is king as the US does honor the coins they issue. Ever stop and think how much money most of Europe stole from the rest of the world? France is one of the worst as they demonetized quite a few coins before the Euro!
France did stop redemption of coin and banknotes, but I believe Germany is redeeming all issued since 1948 except one 50 DM note that was recalled ca. 1950 and has long been out of circulation. Netherlands is redeeming coin and banknote until 2032. I do have a pile of DM coins and some banknotes that I need to send over to Germany for redemption sometime.
Are you sure? I was in Belfast this past summer and recall using Bank of England notes. Definitely used British coins up to 2 pounds, still have them in my drawer.
BOE issued notes are universally accepted anywhere in the UK and their associated domains like Jersey, Isle of Man, Guernesey etc. It is the latter and the Northern Ireland and Scottish notes that raise concern particularly in England. Scottish notes tend to be tolerated around London and the north of England, but the Northern Irish ones might only be tolerated in some ferry ports otherwise forget about spending a Dansk Bank fiver in London.
But, BOE notes are NOT legal tender in Scotland - only British coins are. Scotland and Northern Ireland get along for over 250+ years with commercial bank issued paper money that is back reserved with deposits with the Bank of England. There are some interesting judicial rulings on "legal tender" in Scotland - the Scottish court system usually rules that whatever is generally accepted as a means of payment is proper tender. So use British coin, Scottish notes or English notes and you are fine, try proffing off some Northern Ireland note or an Isle of Man note and you are not.
Edited to add - when I was in Paris back in 2000 Scottish banknotes actually were purchased at a 1% premium over Bank of England notes because they had a quicker clearing system for remitting payment than the BoE did! However Northern Ireland notes were discounted at 2% because of the difficulty in clearing.
At least US commemoratives will always be worth melt value.
Don't forget the clad commems!
The UK's mistake was issuing the face value above the melt value.
With the US having one ounce $50 gold and $100 platinum coins, it shouldn't be an issue here until the PM's take a massive nose dive.
Canada is starting to do the same thing...
My YouTube Channel
I don't think anyone has a problem spending them at face value , here.... Nor does our bank refuse them.
Seriously, we collectors who buy Disney coins from Australia or Canada are crazy. Someone needs to protect us from us.
I give up.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
My YouTube Channel
France did stop redemption of coin and banknotes, but I believe Germany is redeeming all issued since 1948 except one 50 DM note that was recalled ca. 1950 and has long been out of circulation. Netherlands is redeeming coin and banknote until 2032. I do have a pile of DM coins and some banknotes that I need to send over to Germany for redemption sometime.
I got burned on quite a bit of French coins.
There was very little time to redeem them and it was very poorly announced. Now they're worth $3 a pound.
At least US commemoratives will always be worth melt value.
Don't forget the clad commems!
The UK's mistake was issuing the face value above the melt value.
With the US having one ounce $50 gold and $100 platinum coins, it shouldn't be an issue here until the PM's take a massive nose dive.
Agreed.
The name is LEE!
U.S. Mint Ends The Dollar Coin “Scam” For Airline Miles
I'll vote for president anyone who will force them to redeem all that stuff.
Come on FRANCE, how much REALLY would it cost you to redeem the stuff compared to how irritated people are about "worthless" money.
The only good part is when scrap metal was sky high, I sorted out coins by metal type, and one of the scrap yards redeemed them. He asked if they were worth anything, and I told him the countries gad declared them worthless, and scrap was the best thing, so he tossed them into the right piles. Brass was over $3 a pound, and copper was $4.25. Several hundred pounds bit the dust.
Most of the European country's really P*ss me off. I probably have over $1000 in exchange of pre Euro Coins.
This is why the dollar is king as the US does honor the coins they issue. Ever stop and think how much money most of Europe stole from the rest of the world? France is one of the worst as they demonetized quite a few coins before the Euro!
France did stop redemption of coin and banknotes, but I believe Germany is redeeming all issued since 1948 except one 50 DM note that was recalled ca. 1950 and has long been out of circulation. Netherlands is redeeming coin and banknote until 2032. I do have a pile of DM coins and some banknotes that I need to send over to Germany for redemption sometime.
I would appreciate a link or something that shows where the Netherlands are still honoring these coins! The last year or 2 they allowed exchange you could only do so much at a time and had to have a Bank account there. At least that was what I was told quite a few years ago!
I would appreciate a link or something that shows where the Netherlands are still honoring these coins! The last year or 2 they allowed exchange you could only do so much at a time and had to have a Bank account there. At least that was what I was told quite a few years ago!
Whoops, coins were only redeemable until 2007. I managed to spend all my guilders back in 2001 when I was there. I still have a bunch of Euro coins from Netherlands, Germany and Austria from my many trips to those countries.
The good legacy coins were the old 1970s French 50FF coins that I bought in Paris for 35FF(abt $7.50) - they have .86oz fine silver - in 2000 silver was very low and the coins sold for melt. I also have a pile of 100FF coins from the 1990s but they are still not worth the 100FF.