SO what the heck is a SNAD and why does it seem like eBay sellers fear it?

Realone

I guess I was out sick when the SNAD was explained and all its ramifications.

oih82w8

I want to say that I read somewhere "Significantly Not As Described"...I have been wrong before.



Here is an ebay link on the subject.



SNAD vs. Buyers Remorse vs. Returns

coindeuce

It is eBay's way of letting bottom feeders and scammers make an unethical buck. Nothing new at eBay. Move along, please.

goodmoney4badmoney

Yep, it's "Significantly not as described". Sellers fear it because in rare cases buyers may use this to try and extort a partial refund from you, or want a return, even if the item received is actually as described/pictured.

jwitten

And they hurt your account. Get enough of them (only a few, usually), and you are not eligible to top rated discount, etc.

ebaybuyer

as a seller i don't "fear" it, i "detest" those that abuse it

TopographicOceans

Have you ever bought Sea Monkeys as a kid from an ad on the back page of a comic book? You send your money in and in 4-6 weeks you got some freeze dried brine shrimp and a plastic cup you poured water into and they swam around for a week before dying.

Compared to the ad, that's something that is Significantly Not As Described.

eBay used to be like the Wild West where anyone with a PC and Internet connection could post a picture and sell it on eBay. Scammers would take PCGS MS-65 coin pictures from Heritage, post an eBay auction and get your $5,000 and send you a raw circulated one instead - if you got anything at all.

eBay's defense always was they were "just a venue", the same as a newspaper classified ad and they weren't responsible. And it was a great defense and successful every time they got sued when people got ripped off.

This worked well for years, until it started affecting the eBay brand and people wouldn't buy because they heard the horror stories.

So eBay's marketing department launched a campaign for eBay's Buyer Protection to promote eBay as a safe place to buy. This is now called their Money Back Guarantee and that's exactly what it is.

If you buy something on eBay and you don't receive it, or what you receive is Significantly Not As Described, you open a case with eBay and they tell you to ship it back to the seller and you get your money back plus the original shipping.

The term "significantly" leaves it open to eBay's interpretation. 95% of the time, eBay will side with the buyer.

When a buyer opens a case, eBay will have PayPal put a hold on the sellers account to cover the return.

For normal returns, the buyers pay for return shipping. But if they open a SNAD case, then the seller pays for the return shipping as well. This costs sellers money to ship it out and then pay again for the buyer to return it.

Sellers get perks based on their performance, like a 20% discount and being identified as a Top Rated Seller in their listings. If you get "defects" you can lose your 20% discount and Top Rated Status (or even have your account closed.)

SNAD cases used to count as a defect against the sellers, just like neutral or negative feedback and low DSR's (Detailed Seller Ratings). If sellers got too many defects, they would lose their 20% discount, top rated status and even become NARU'd.

Now there are only two ways for a seller to get a defect.
1) The seller doesn't ship and refunds the buyer
2) They don't resolve a buyer's complaint and eBay has to step in and issue the refund.

So eBay is a safe place to buy. You get what you ordered or you get your money back.

Buyers can lie and say something is SNAD and there isn't much sellers can do about it. Sellers can report buyers who abuse the process, and if there are too many reports the buyers can become NARU'd (Not A Registered User).

Even if you list in your auction, No Returns, buyers can still say it is SNAD to get their money back and sellers pay shipping both ways.

And starting in May, buyers will have 30 days to return something.

19Lyds

Just like some sellers have no clue on what they are selling, so do some buyers have no clue on what they are buying.



They use the SNAD as an out and unless the seller was incredibly specific, eBay honors the buyers wishes.



The thing is, the word "significantly" is abused by many buyers who will whine about a tiny nick or spot on a slab regardless of what the coin looks like.

Or whine about haze on a 1970's Silver Proof coin in original government packaging stating that its not "perfect".

Or whine that they don;t agree with the grade on the slab.



Lots and lots of cry baby perfectionists out there that either cannot read or refuse to look at detailed photographs BEFORE slapping down their nuclear bids.

OPA

Originally posted by: 19Lyds
Just like some sellers have no clue on what they are selling, so do some buyers have no clue on what they are buying.

They use the SNAD as an out and unless the seller was incredibly specific, eBay honors the buyers wishes.

The thing is, the word "significantly" is abused by many buyers who will whine about a tiny nick or spot on a slab regardless of what the coin looks like.
Or whine about haze on a 1970's Silver Proof coin in original government packaging stating that its not "perfect".
Or whine that they don;t agree with the grade on the slab.

Lots and lots of cry baby perfectionists out there that either cannot read or refuse to look at detailed photographs BEFORE slapping down their nuclear bids.

Just like in real life and applying to all retail related businesses. A "brain dead" minority, that at times creates "migraine headaches."

oih82w8

Originally posted by: OPA

Originally posted by: 19Lyds

Just like some sellers have no clue on what they are selling, so do some buyers have no clue on what they are buying.



They use the SNAD as an out and unless the seller was incredibly specific, eBay honors the buyers wishes.



The thing is, the word "significantly" is abused by many buyers who will whine about a tiny nick or spot on a slab regardless of what the coin looks like.

Or whine about haze on a 1970's Silver Proof coin in original government packaging stating that its not "perfect".

Or whine that they don;t agree with the grade on the slab.



Lots and lots of cry baby perfectionists out there that either cannot read or refuse to look at detailed photographs BEFORE slapping down their nuclear bids.

Just like in real life and applying to all retail related businesses. A "brain dead" minority, that at times creates "migraine headaches."

Absolutely!



I had a buyer complain about a "blemish" of some sort that did not appear on the image posted and accused me of trying to hide it in my images. Sheesh, it's not perfect and neither am I. Of course I took the item back and refunded their money.

derryb

Originally posted by: coindeuce
It is eBay's way of letting bottom feeders and scammers make an unethical buck. Nothing new at eBay. Move along, please.

It's also ebay's way of letting sellers know that they should give a thourough description with full disclosure.

oih82w8

Originally posted by: derryb



It's also ebay's way of letting sellers know that they should give a thourough description with full disclosure.

It is an awakening to be as thorough as possible...but you can't please everybody. Someone is going to find something to complain about.

DollarAfterDollar

It's basically a way unethical buyers get you to pay for them shipping back your item. I have a "no questions asked" return policy but I had a buyer return a coin using sSNAD. I've only blocked a few in 5 years, I'm pondering adding this assclown to the list.

Crackout

Haha, it looks like someone bought those Sea Monkeys last week! (not when they were a kid )

derryb

SNAD's can be mostly avoided with two seller principles:
1. complete disclosure/description on what is being sold.
2. liberal return policy for the unhappy buyer.

Retailers such as Walmart and Target have learned that a no questions asked return policy helps to keep repeat business. Where there is competition, buyers will flock to the one that treats them best.

SNAD abused by buyers? Sure it is. Give them an easier way out and you will avoid a SNAD. Paying return postage on a buyer who changed his mind is a cost of doing business. When you look at the numbers, an unhappy buyer is but a very small percentage of your business. If it is a high percentage of your sales you are doing something wrong.

ebaybuyer

there are instances where it is necessary to use, most times it is simply abused by buyers who prefer someone else pay for their mistakes because ebay allows them that option

mustangmanbob

SNADS can be a killer with the shipping costs.

My stuff is big and heavy, car parts, 50+ years old. It is not uncommon for an item to cost more to ship than the purchase price.

Even with 10 pictures, long description, etc. an unscrupulous buyer can SNAD an item, by just saying it is significantly different from the description, without saying what is different.

So a $100 item that cost $145 (FedEx 3x oversize) to ship is now in purgatory. I can pay $145 to get back an item that I will only ever sell for $100, or just let the buyer keep it, so I lose my part and paid $145 for the privilege of doing so.

My feedback rating is over 3200, and I have been on ebay 14 years, but this one is really spooky.

No matter how many AS IS NO REFUNDS ASK QUESTIONS FIRST, DO YOU NEED MORE PICTURES etc. , you get a feedback rating of 0 person, brand new to ebay, does a buy it now and then files an SNAD.

Just go to your local library with a new credit card, (not your regular ISP) set up a new ebay account, find something the seller will not want to pay return shipping, and MAGIC BEANS, it is YOURS FOR FREE !!

bigjpst

I have only had 2 snad cases on eBay and only a small handful of returns. I have a no questions asked return policy and both times the snad was used were because the buyer didn't agree with a TPG grade. One even accused me of switching the coin in the holder. Both opened the SNAD without contacting me first. I can see the need for it, but I feel like eBay should only allow it if other return policies fail to work. Fortunately they recognized that counting it against the seller may not be fair.

grote15

It doesn't matter how detailed and descriptive your listing is if the buyer is out to scam you.

roadrunner

...I had a buyer complain about a "blemish" of some sort that did not appear on the image posted and accused me of trying to hide it in my images. Sheesh, it's not perfect and neither am I. Of course I took the item back and refunded their money.

I fit that buyer's description. Ebay auction on what appeared to be a very nice 1918 PCGS MS65 RD cent in a rattler. The coin looked very strong for the grade with killer luster, so I bid strong. I did note that on the reverse photograph, a portion of the left reverse was in a shadow where you couldn't see even the design of the coin. I bid based their glowing description and how nice it looked on what did show....and knowing how conservative PCGS was in those days for Gem copper. You know what comes next......the reverse shadow was hiding a very large and quite unacceptable carbon spot, making the coin low end rather than nice for the grade. It stinks when the seller completely ignores such a distraction in their description. The odds of the shadow not being intentional were slim to none. Of course they did it for financial gain...and to move an otherwise, hard to sell coin at full price.



Those must have been the pre-SNAD/pre-FUBAR days because the seller told me to get lost when I requested to return the coin. And as always, this was a 100% FB seller....lol. And even today, if ae seller is intent on scamming you, they will find a way.

kaz

Yeah, I bought a trade dollar that had a significant spot in a field photoshopped out in the listing photos! What nerve!

TwoSides2aCoin

it's basically "catch all" for the benefit of the buyer so that his experiences on ebay will not be unpleasant. That's why I said in the other thread :

Seller Needs A Drink.

TopographicOceans

Originally posted by: Realone
How does an buyer buyer actually do a SNAD?

From your Purchase History, you select "Return this item" from the "More Actions" drop down box.

You then get prompted for why you want to return it.
If you select any of the reasons I marked in red, that will open a SNAD case.

coindeuce

Originally posted by: TopographicOceans





So eBay's marketing department launched a campaign for eBay's Buyer Protection to promote eBay as a safe place to buy. This is now called their Money Back Guarantee and that's exactly what it is.

Exactly what it is T.O., is an insurance pool created by eBay with your money, by way of increasingly higher Final Value Fees as a seller. What the hell, did you think ebay was refunding buyers entirely by means of clawbacks ? Whaddya think happens in the case where someone makes a purchase from a hijacked account, gets no delivery or a box of rocks, and the phantom seller is in the wind?

TopographicOceans

Originally posted by: coindeuce

Originally posted by: TopographicOceans


So eBay's marketing department launched a campaign for eBay's Buyer Protection to promote eBay as a safe place to buy. This is now called their Money Back Guarantee and that's exactly what it is.

Exactly what it is T.O., is an insurance pool created by eBay with your money, by way of increasingly higher Final Value Fees as a seller. What the hell, did you think ebay was refunding buyers entirely by means of clawbacks ? Whaddya think happens in the case where someone makes a purchase from a hijacked account, gets no delivery or a box of rocks, and the phantom seller is in the wind?

Retail shrink losses cost $44 billion a year. (38% are shoplifting, 35% are employee thefts)
Credit card fraud losses are $16 billion a year.

Who pays for it? We all do, through higher fees and prices.

I don't know how much money has been stolen via eBay. I imagine it is in the hundreds of millions since they started.

But eBay has made great strides from their "just a venue" defense to their Money Back Guarantee policy. They aren't being noble, they are just protecting their brand.

It's not perfect, but it is a lot safer place to buy now than it was.

VanHalen

Never had a SNAD as a seller and never have used one as a buyer but there are cases where they are justified. Particularly when dealt a bad hand by an unethical seller who will not work to resolve a legitimate problem. Hope I'm not ever on either end of one.

roadrunner

Originally posted by: kaz

Yeah, I bought a trade dollar that had a significant spot in a field photoshopped out in the listing photos! What nerve!

SNAP



Significantly Not As Photographed/Photo-shopped.

ziggy29

I can certainly see plenty of times where SNAD is justified... but eBay has skewed the rules so far in favor of the seller that I've pretty much stopped selling there. That said, MOST buyers, like MOST sellers, are ethical so it's luck of the draw as to whether you'll get one who claims SNAD when all they have is buyer's remorse.

jdimmick

That's not all tru about having a good return and description:

Havent lately knock on wood, but I have a solid no question 14 day return and more importantly over describe a problem coin, but still get a return, some just snad it with out even asking or stating they want to return to keep from paying the return postage fee. gets charged back to the seller

19Lyds

Originally posted by: derryb

Originally posted by: coindeuce

It is eBay's way of letting bottom feeders and scammers make an unethical buck. Nothing new at eBay. Move along, please.

It's also ebay's way of letting sellers know that they should give a thourough description with full disclosure.

Seriously?



How complete does "full disclosure" have to be? That is, provided the buyer even bothers to "read" the listing beyond the "purty pit-chures".



You buying the slab or you buying the coin?



Does a PR70 generation buyer even have any business buying a 1970's proof set using PR70 Generation standards?



At what point does a buyer become responsible for his or her own decisions given ebays push for "Free Shipping"?