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NGC and toned ASE's.

keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
Most of us are aware of toned ASE's, mainly the vibrantly toned Proofs stored in the velvet lined cases, but also any toned Silver coin which might be in an old PCI holder with "100% White" added to the insert. We know they tone. Similarly, most of us are aware of the old NGC "no line fatty" holders which are well known to tone coins after encapsulation.



I assume that the graders at NGC are well aware of these facts, particularly about their own holders.



So...............I spoke with a customer of ours at a Sunday coin show, his son works as a grader at NGC. He told me that they will no longer grade toned ASE's with the reasoning being that they "just aren't old enough" to tone like that. I wondered if anyone else had heard as much recently or had toned ASE's rejected by NGC?



Thanks in advance.



Al H.

Comments

  • AblinkyAblinky Posts: 628 ✭✭✭
    This came up during one of my grading classes at Summer Seminar and one of the instructors who happened to be an NGC grader, closely mirrored what you heard at that show. So it isn't exactly "new" policy by NGC toward toned SAE's.

    Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage

  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would also be curious to know if anyone has given one of those toned ASEs a bath in acetone, and what the outcome was.
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  • CuKevinCuKevin Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Ablinky
    This came up during one of my grading classes at Summer Seminar and one of the instructors who happened to be an NGC grader, closely mirrored what you heard at that show. So it isn't exactly "new" policy by NGC toward toned SAE's.


    As Ablinky mentioned, this is not a new policy. It's at least 3 years old.
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  • CyStaterCyStater Posts: 681 ✭✭✭
    Excuse the poor IPhone pic but this is a 2015 ASE put in an envelope and forgotten about for around six months. AT? No. Market acceptable? Not by NGC, maybe not by PCGS either. Pretty enough for my album? Yep.
    image
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is one of those cases where the owner knows the coin toned naturally; yet IMO it will probably not be considered NT by a TPGS. Such a shame.
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is one of those cases where the owner knows the coin toned naturally; yet IMO it will probably not be considered NT by a TPGS. Such a shame.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    thanks for the heads up, this just isn't a topic that gets discussed much so I wasn't aware of the change in policy at NGC.
  • CyStaterCyStater Posts: 681 ✭✭✭
    I have no interest in grading it so no biggie for me. You could call it IT, intentional toning as I knew SOMETHING would happen to it. I just didn't know if it would be good, bad or ugly...
  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,594 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pure Silver reacts fairly quickly in an exposed environment. Rapidly in an trapped environment with heat and many lurking elements or compounds.
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  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Policy is at least a few years old and has been discussed on the NGC boards a few times over those years.



    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    what was the range of opinions at SleepyHollow and did anyone from NGC join in the discussion and offer their explanation??
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is a slight cottage industry of snapping up for cheap "Artificial Toned" NGC eagles on eBay and cracking, submitting to PCGS for a straight grade.

    Coins purchased at $50. (or even less) are transformed into PCGS beauties that sometimes sell for many multiples.

    peacockcoins

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NGC is less likely to straight grade a wildly toned ASE.
    But they sure don't mind throwing a 'Star' on any Morgan with even a tiny ho-hum crescent or blotch of toning.
  • pmacpmac Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭
    It's interesting to say the least. When the craze was to AT coins with a certain napkin was happening, I got a napkin from another fast food establishment, thinking that they were all the same. For giggles, I put a Peace dollar, a Morgan dollar, a Frankie, a Walker, and an ASE, all blast white or as near as could be, in the napkins (each had its own) and put them on a window sill where they sat for half a year. Nothing happened, and my wife insisted that I put them away. The closest I got to any toning was that the Peace dollar started to gray a little. This was over three years ago. I'm going to dig them out and see what's happened to some forgotten coins.
    Paul
  • ShadyDaveShadyDave Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Sonorandesertrat
    I would also be curious to know if anyone has given one of those toned ASEs a bath in acetone, and what the outcome was.


    Nothing will happen to the tone of a coin in pure acetone. If there is organic matter on the coin that toned (dirt, glue, paint etc.) then the surfaces underneath will probably vary from the rest of the coin after it is removed by the acetone.
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: ShadyDave
    Originally posted by: Sonorandesertrat
    I would also be curious to know if anyone has given one of those toned ASEs a bath in acetone, and what the outcome was.


    Nothing will happen to the tone of a coin in pure acetone. If there is organic matter on the coin that toned (dirt, glue, paint etc.) then the surfaces underneath will probably vary from the rest of the coin after it is removed by the acetone.


    Precisely. Sometimes outgassed organics deposit on the surfaces of coins, giving them the appearance of toning. I have seen some coins that had very different coloration after a dip in acetone, meaning that some of the color wasn't real toning.

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  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great to know NGC's stand on toned ASEs.

    I was thinking about trying to send a couple of these to PCGS. Waste of time / money or worth a shot?

    image
  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,836 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: CyStater
    Excuse the poor IPhone pic but this is a 2015 ASE put in an envelope and forgotten about for around six months. AT? No. Market acceptable? Not by NGC, maybe not by PCGS either. Pretty enough for my album? Yep.
    image


    That's quite impressive in that short amount of time. What kind of envelope? Where did you keep it? What temp? What made it turn purple?


  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: fivecents

    Great to know NGC's stand on toned ASEs.



    I was thinking about trying to send a couple of these to PCGS. Waste of time / money or worth a shot?



    image




    To PCGS? Should be fine.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Bochiman

    Originally posted by: fivecents

    Great to know NGC's stand on toned ASEs.



    I was thinking about trying to send a couple of these to PCGS. Waste of time / money or worth a shot?



    image




    To PCGS? Should be fine.





    Do not crack them out. Send them in the holders for crossover with no

    minimum grade. They'll be fine.
  • garrynotgarrynot Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭
    There are state quarters with colorful toning that would fit the same description
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,047 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: fivecents
    Great to know NGC's stand on toned ASEs.

    I was thinking about trying to send a couple of these to PCGS. Waste of time / money or worth a shot?

    image



    They all should make it !


  • david3142david3142 Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Holy cow, Seattle!



    Is that yours? It still may be questionable but that's probably the most amazingly toned SAE I've ever seen.
  • machoponchomachoponcho Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    It has been more than 3 years. To my observation it has been about 6 or 7 years since NGC was grading ASEs as being possibly NT.

    To hear directly why not, I did not know until this topic. Very informative. I wonder what NGC's exact "line" is for AT/NT in terms of newness of coin? 10 years? 20? If they aren't grading ASEs it seems to be at least 30 years.

    PCI ASE toners don't always cross at PCGS at any grade. I sent a group of 5 in that way several years back. DNC on all of them due to Questionable Color. They were still in PCI holder and everything.
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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My ASE's (1986-2007) have not tarnished at all. I keep them in the original box, in a safe...

    yes with guns and other things. No tarnish, no milk spots. Cheers, RickO
  • IrishMikeyIrishMikey Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭
    While sending in a Silver Eagle in a PCI holder shows the graders how the toning occurred, in my experience they still go by the color patterns. If the toning just looks wrong, or is unattractive, they will often give it a DNC. Can't blame them for that -- they have a brand image to think of, and a ton of ugly toned Silver Eagles will not help the brand.

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