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a third party grading company that could not determine authenticity until the coin was re-submitted with the opinion of a competitor ?

I submitted a coin to grading co A and twice it was returned BB due to grading co A not being able to determine authenticity of the coin, then I submitted to grading co B and it was properly identified, then I sent it back to grading co A with the information from grading co B and it was now able to be slabbed by grading co A

this greatly diminishes my confidence in co A
regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything

Comments

  • brg5658brg5658 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: ebaybuyer

    a third party grading company that could not determine authenticity until the coin was re-submitted with the opinion of a competitor ?



    I submitted a coin to grading co A and twice it was returned BB due to grading co A not being able to determine authenticity of the coin, then I submitted to grading co B and it was properly identified, then I sent it back to grading co A with the information from grading co B and it was now able to be slabbed by grading co A



    this greatly diminishes my confidence in co A






    I agree with your final conclusion.



    Now if you would just PM the unblinded names of Co A and Co B and pictures of the coin in question. imageimage







    -Brandon
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
    My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,521 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: brg5658

    Originally posted by: ebaybuyer

    a third party grading company that could not determine authenticity until the coin was re-submitted with the opinion of a competitor ?



    I submitted a coin to grading co A and twice it was returned BB due to grading co A not being able to determine authenticity of the coin, then I submitted to grading co B and it was properly identified, then I sent it back to grading co A with the information from grading co B and it was now able to be slabbed by grading co A



    this greatly diminishes my confidence in co A






    I agree with your final conclusion.



    Now if you would just PM the unblinded names of Co A and Co B and pictures of the coin in question. imageimage







    image +1



    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • jerseycat101jerseycat101 Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: keyman64
    Originally posted by: brg5658
    Originally posted by: ebaybuyer
    a third party grading company that could not determine authenticity until the coin was re-submitted with the opinion of a competitor ?

    I submitted a coin to grading co A and twice it was returned BB due to grading co A not being able to determine authenticity of the coin, then I submitted to grading co B and it was properly identified, then I sent it back to grading co A with the information from grading co B and it was now able to be slabbed by grading co A

    this greatly diminishes my confidence in co A



    I agree with your final conclusion.

    Now if you would just PM the unblinded names of Co A and Co B and pictures of the coin in question. imageimage



    image +1

    image +1

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree... and also suggest a PM with the names... Thank you... Cheers, RickO
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can guess the grading services in question. You were smart to not name them---if you did we would be planning a going away party for you. LOL

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You know what we say in bowling. Trust is a must or your game is a bust. I hope it wasn't a bust half.
  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    just a theoretical situation of course, although co B will be getting more of my business in the future
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,236 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: brg5658

    Originally posted by: ebaybuyer

    a third party grading company that could not determine authenticity until the coin was re-submitted with the opinion of a competitor ?



    I submitted a coin to grading co A and twice it was returned BB due to grading co A not being able to determine authenticity of the coin, then I submitted to grading co B and it was properly identified, then I sent it back to grading co A with the information from grading co B and it was now able to be slabbed by grading co A



    this greatly diminishes my confidence in co A






    I agree with your final conclusion.



    Now if you would just PM the unblinded names of Co A and Co B and pictures of the coin in question. imageimage


    No good would come of that. In another scenario, their roles would be reversed. In yet other situation, the first grading service might authenticate a coin another grading service later determines to be counterfeit.



    I would like to see a picture of the coin, though (raw, if possible).



  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    I have no proof that the roles could be reversed, in another scenario co A wouldn't need to rely on co B's knowledge to make a determination of what a coin is
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • brg5658brg5658 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: ebaybuyer

    I have no proof that the roles could be reversed, in another scenario co A wouldn't need to rely on co B's knowledge to make a determination of what a coin is




    I was 100% serious, I would like to receive a PM with the company names and a picture if possible. Thanks.
    -Brandon
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
    My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

  • Danye WestDanye West Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    I've seen straight-up cleaned Franklins in grading company...let's just call it "P" slabs. I think that the other company is trying to be tougher in general.

    I could make a birth year registry set out of pocket change.
  • brg5658brg5658 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: messydesk

    Originally posted by: brg5658

    Originally posted by: ebaybuyer

    a third party grading company that could not determine authenticity until the coin was re-submitted with the opinion of a competitor ?



    I submitted a coin to grading co A and twice it was returned BB due to grading co A not being able to determine authenticity of the coin, then I submitted to grading co B and it was properly identified, then I sent it back to grading co A with the information from grading co B and it was now able to be slabbed by grading co A



    this greatly diminishes my confidence in co A






    I agree with your final conclusion.



    Now if you would just PM the unblinded names of Co A and Co B and pictures of the coin in question. imageimage


    No good would come of that. In another scenario, their roles would be reversed. In yet other situation, the first grading service might authenticate a coin another grading service later determines to be counterfeit.



    I would like to see a picture of the coin, though (raw, if possible).







    The OP has offered a scenario backed up by actual experience/evidence, thus I would like to know the details of his actual experience.



    Your other described scenarios (while possible) are fantasy until supported by evidence. If you have that evidence, I'd be happy to see it as well -- but until then, talk is cheap.



    -Brandon
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
    My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,889 ✭✭✭✭✭
    US coin? Foreign coin? Token? Medal? SCD?





    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was hoping you would start a thread that read " How would you feel about people laughing at your collection ? "

    That just made me laugh.
  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    Is company "a" Accugrade?
  • GazesGazes Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Would love to know what CAC would say about the coin
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Gazes
    Would love to know what CAC would say about the coin



    Good point. We need an umpire behind home plate.
  • brg5658brg5658 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin

    Originally posted by: Gazes

    Would love to know what CAC would say about the coin






    Good point. We need an umpire behind home plate.




    CAC doesn't authenticate coins, they "agree or disagree" with grades on slabs. Not sure how CAC's opinion would matter.



    -Brandon
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
    My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TopographicOceans

    Is company "a" Accugrade?




    I know you are kidding but are they even still in business?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have never heard of one grading company wondering on how another felt about something until now.



    I rarely ever send anything in for grading unless it's a stipulation toward finalizing a sale. About 5 years I sent something to service XYZ and it returned as non genuine. A few weeks later I approached their table at a show to inquire why they felt it wasn't and stated my reasoning as to why I felt it was. I was asked to resubmit it with hard facts and researched everything I could find ever written on the item along with photos showing die markers, etc. About 8 weeks later I received notification it was graded and when received back enclosed was a very nice thank you letter from one of the managers.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am about to test this OP theory myself...hoping for similar results.
    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would not do business with them (Grading Co A).
    Coins & Currency
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,513 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's almost the same reason people go for second opinions to other doctors, when they're sick. To find out how sick.
  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
    pics please?
    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think this scenario can go either way with either party. I bought a coin in a NGC holder not graded due to “Scratches”. I wanted it in a PCGS holder for storage and consistency and bought the coin in the NGC holder with the intention of sending to PCGS and get it in a PCGS Genuine holder. But PCGS graded it claiming it was only album friction. I am sure others have stories to repeat as well. So the point is, grading is not a exact science .Stuff happens!

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • brg5658brg5658 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: WaterSport

    I think this scenario can go either way with either party. I bought a coin in a NGC holder not graded due to “Scratches”. I wanted it in a PCGS holder for storage and consistency and bought the coin in the NGC holder with the intention of sending to PCGS and get it in a PCGS Genuine holder. But PCGS graded it claiming it was only album friction. I am sure others have stories to repeat as well. So the point is, grading is not a exact science .Stuff happens!



    WS




    It's one thing for companies to disagree on whether a coin is problem-free or not, it's something entirely different for companies to not agree on whether a coin is authentic. Your example is apples to oranges here...

    -Brandon
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
    My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

  • AstroJoeAstroJoe Posts: 309 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin

    You know what we say in bowling. Trust is a must or your game is a bust. I hope it wasn't a bust half.




    A fellow bowler? Been a few years since I heard that and used that one.image



    Joe

    Everything is all right!
  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 6,005 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have heard that CAC has contacted grading companies when a problem coin comes across CAC desk!



    That is a great reason to get coins CACed.
    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,215 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wouldn't be so anxious to throw company "A" under the bus. I leave open the possibility that they simply couldn't authenticate the coin the first time around. The second determination (whether aided by company "B"s input or not) fell under different circumstances.

    I'm guessing the coin is not common. If it were, then there's no reason for this.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • ElKevvoElKevvo Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wouldn't be so anxious to throw company "A" under the bus.



    I agree...as Watersport mentioned also grading is a science. I would have thought Company A's grading process would be fully independent and detached from the grade etc. given by Company B and quite possibly the authentication was truly independent the final time. I always thought that for the top tier TPG's the grades etc. on a competitors slab were hidden to the graders, could be wrong on this.



    If Company A's process includes a 'Hmmm....Company B gives this authentic coin a X, what should we give it?' type scenario then there is a problem with Company A's process as it introduces other elements than just grading.



    K
    ANA LM

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