Where do Cleaned/Damaged Coins fit in your collection
unclebob
Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
Do any of you buy a cool, rare or scarce variety, knowing that the coin has been cleaned, exhibit veritgras, or have environmental damage??
I guess a premium would factor into the decision, but even then, after attribution and slabbing there is often nothing of a premium.
It's frustrating for me, because they are typically found after an exhaustive search and research.
Such has been the case with a number of coins recently, most notably large cents.
Sometimes the Fine coins don't bother me as much as the XF/AU/MS
Do you buy them for the sake of having the variety?
Do you buy with the idea of rescue with the intention of trading up eventually?
Do you avoid them?
Can you correct the cleaned coin by dipping?
Basically it becomes a rescue and possibly clutter tying up money.
I guess a premium would factor into the decision, but even then, after attribution and slabbing there is often nothing of a premium.
It's frustrating for me, because they are typically found after an exhaustive search and research.
Such has been the case with a number of coins recently, most notably large cents.
Sometimes the Fine coins don't bother me as much as the XF/AU/MS
Do you buy them for the sake of having the variety?
Do you buy with the idea of rescue with the intention of trading up eventually?
Do you avoid them?
Can you correct the cleaned coin by dipping?
Basically it becomes a rescue and possibly clutter tying up money.
0
Comments
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
No damaged coins as they are problems.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Lafayette Grading Set
U.S. Type Set
How would a coin Doctor fix a coin with ED
There are plenty of coins out there that had some form of ED and were later 'fixed' by tooling (e.g., removing corroded spots, burnishing) and then recoloring/artificially toning in attempts to cover up evidence of metal movement.
I have seen a number of such coins in top-tier slabs, sitting in the inventories of well-known dealers.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Of course I prefer problem-free coins.
But there's a tipping point of price vs rarity vs grade vs eye appeal, when I'll buy a "details" coin -- and feel good about it afterwards.
My Only Rule: I might buy a cleaned coin, but I do NOT do any cleaning myself. Never have, never will. (Though sometimes it's tempting to try.)
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
This coin is not pretty, but it fills the hole. NGC gave it a straight MS-61 grade. I paid EF-AU money for it at auction. I once tried to trade it for another NGC MS-61 graded piece that was nicer, but the dealer and I were too far apart. The dealer didn't do the deal because his coin was a rarer date (15 known), not because of how this coin looked.
Among all of the early gold pieces, this is my least favorite type. I don't think that the design is very attractive, and nice ones cost a fortune.
Latin American Collection
No where. They don't fit in my collection.
Problem coins do not fit into my collection.
Mine either.
To get back to coins, there are those that only want the best of the best. Some are able to grade at a level to figure this out, but most collectors lack that level of skill. Maybe only 10% of veteran collectors (and zero novice collectors) have this level of skill. They want the best of the best and pay for that. Others look for the best value, or best combination of eye appeal and value. A few will be attracted the coins that few others want.
Some might say every dog deserves a home (other than the truly dangerous dogs). Some might say the same for coins, they deserve a home, though hopefully at a low enough price.
This forum skews heavily towards the pure bred collector. It isn't like that in the real world, not at the local club or local show. This forum is a tiny slice dominated by the well-heeled, quality oriented collector. I didn't meet a single collector like that at the local coin club (30+ average attendance). This is not to say one is better than the other, but more of an observation. Just as the pure bred dog owner can be just as happy or unhappy as the person that is attracted the troubled rescue dog.
Coin sale at link below
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wS6r94r66BAJV3zC6
It depends on the scarcity of the material you are seeking.
Here's a thread where I asked a similar question.
Dempsey & Baxter Rare Coins
6032 Peach Street
Erie, PA 16509
I like it
If the example is truly scarce, I'd rather have a holed coin than a harshly cleaned one.
I just cannot abide obnoxiously cleaned coins,
But that's just my opinion.
But if someone wanted to put together a collection of scrubbed to death VF-XF-AU Barber Halves, hey go for it. There's plenty to go around. It's their money, spend as they will.
Nevertheless, many folks in this forum seems do not care these trophy not-grade-able coins since I started a thread to ask the info of highest price paid for not-grade-able coins in each series but no one put any info to the thread.
To each their own. BTW I only have one "details" coin; "Questionable Color";
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
I fit into this category:
Others look for the best value, or best combination of eye appeal and value.
So I won't be showing my Wreath Cent, or 1804 cent, on the forum, as they are in Genuine holders, and not
up to the general standards of the forum.
...........This forum skews heavily towards the pure bred collector. It isn't like that in the real world, not at the local club or local show. This forum is a tiny slice dominated by the well-heeled, quality oriented collector. I didn't meet a single collector like that at the local coin club (30+ average attendance). This is not to say one is better than the other, but more of an observation. Just as the pure bred dog owner can be just as happy or unhappy as the person that is attracted the troubled rescue dog.
Very powerfully stated and VERY TRUE.
This board is representative of a tiny sliver of the coin collecting community.
An awesome sliver, but a sliver never the less.
I remember sharing a PM with a member who said that he purchased a coin just so he could post it here.
I scratched my head.
There are some who go to an antique store and see a really nice old piece of furniture that has a scratch here, and
a nick there and they drool over the authenticity and character.
I collect coins.
Some have some character, some are virginal and encased in plastic. Both examples were purchased because I liked them and thought the price was right.
It really depends on the series of what you collect. If you are working on modern coins, of course, no not-grade-able coins. If you are working on pioneer gold, many times, you don't have a choice since many unique coins are not-grade-able and many are very desirable to be included in top collection.
Nevertheless, many folks in this forum seems do not care these trophy not-grade-able coins since I started a thread to ask the info of highest price paid for not-grade-able coins in each series but no one put any info to the thread.
Good points made by many here, it depends on the kind of coins.
It's easy for everyone to say "no problem" to the kinds of coins that are readily available in high grade and undamaged, and also it's easy for really wealthy people to buy truly scarce and rare coins in any grade they want (as well as anything else they want)
But for a coin collector with a relatively modest budget and an ambition to collect coins that are truly rare in any condition, and either unavailable or prohibitively expensive in "problem-free" condition, then the decision must be made whether to either make some compromises, or just go without the rest of their life.
I've decided to allow a few problem coins into my collection in order to be able to own an example
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Would avoid modern problem coins more so than earlier coinage where choices may dwindle.
When limited number are available one must decide do you want to fill the hole. I actually had answered no originally to a certain draped bust variety
because it was too pricey, but along came a problem candidate at a low price and after reviewing pulled the trigger. I have been happy with it since.
I have no illusion of selling it for big bucks, it is what it is a rare coin with issues (I will probably never sell it).
An extreme example: if you could buy a genuine 1804 dollar with problems (most detail visible) for $1000 that could not be flipped,
would all the detractors of problem coins really pass up the opportunity to own a party of history?
Each coin has value, what that value is what is decided when two parties agree to a transaction; the next transaction will be different as changes will occur.
Like so many things in this hobby I think the individual collector can choose how they want their collection.
Will warn that novice collectors seek experienced help, a deal that seems too good often is.
1/21 edit to eliminate run on
...........This forum skews heavily towards the pure bred collector. It isn't like that in the real world, not at the local club or local show. This forum is a tiny slice dominated by the well-heeled, quality oriented collector. I didn't meet a single collector like that at the local coin club (30+ average attendance). This is not to say one is better than the other, but more of an observation. Just as the pure bred dog owner can be just as happy or unhappy as the person that is attracted the troubled rescue dog.
Very powerfully stated and VERY TRUE.
This board is representative of a tiny sliver of the coin collecting community.
An awesome sliver, but a sliver never the less.
+1
No damaged coins as they are problems.
same here and no cleaned coins.
Cleaned (harsh cleaning scratches, etc) and damaged coins are culls. They have no place in my portfolio. They can be good material for coin jewelry like money clips.
How would a coin Doctor fix a coin with ED
First answer that popped into my mind was Viagra...
How would a coin Doctor fix a coin with ED
First answer that popped into my mind was Viagra...
It was the poster child for the NGC "genuine" ads in 2009.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Problem coins do not fit into my collection.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
So there is never an exception...?
Not for Walkers....maybe if it was rare gold and the cleaning wasn't obvious....but even then it would likely bother me and would be a poor investment IMHO.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
But to buy problem coins holdered, I avoid like the plague.
I'd rather have a lower graded problem free coin, but that isn't always possible.