Home U.S. Coin Forum

Have any "one-way" markets evolved into "two-way" markets?

291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
A "one-way" market can be defined as a market in which sellers offer their product at big premiums but won't pay premiums if offered to them. A "two-way" market has active buyers and sellers. I think of most "cherry-picker" material as being "one-way" markets.
All glory is fleeting.

Comments

  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,416 ✭✭✭✭
    I think moderns are the same way, depending on the series anyway.
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,416 ✭✭✭✭
    I picture IKEs and SBAs in the marker around 15 years ago. High grade coins sold for a lot of money, but when it came time to sell back to a particular dealer, the coin was cheap cheap cheap.
  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is likely a general correlation between how thin a market is and how "one-way" it is.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,430 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The potential is always there for "one way markets" in the modern area because for most issues the supply is very high. The only thing that makes some modern U.S. coins expensive at the retail stems from the "Top POP" / registry point status. There is always a danger that new high grade examples will come on the market because of the number coins that have not been graded.


    I don't dislike modern coins; I collect hem. I just don't like the very expensive ones whose value is based solely on the grade.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: 291fifth

    Have any "one-way" markets evolved into "two-way" markets?



    I'm not aware of any.
  • NapNap Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Perhaps SSCA double eagles?







    Franklin Mint stuff?
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting question as to Franklin Mint stuff- That seems to be evolving for certain countries and dates. I suspect there are some that would argue it already has evolved.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,430 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is there much of anything that the Franklin Mint made that sells for more than melt? If there is it is well hidden to me.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bill- as hard as it may seem to believe there is- various sets from Panama, Belize, Trinidad & Tobago (among others...) in the 1980-84 have low mintages and then discount the mintage figures to account for sets that have been melted. Some are quite elusive.



    These sets have a fairly small following, but it seems to be growing. I suppose there are those that would suggest it really could not get smaller...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,430 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: coinkat
    Bill- as hard as it may seem to believe there is- various sets from Panama, Belize, Trinidad & Tobago (among others...) in the 1980-84 have low mintages and then discount the mintage figures to account for sets that have been melted. Some are quite elusive.

    These sets have a fairly small following, but it seems to be growing. I suppose there are those that would suggest it really could not get smaller...


    Since I'm not into THAT area of the dark side I was not aware of it. When those coins were issued I considered them to be a joke. You had a country that was issuing coins that never touched the shores of that nation. To me those pieces were only made to get your money.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: BillJones

    The potential is always there for "one way markets" in the modern area because for most issues the supply is very high.




    It's this widespread belief that suppresses the demand for moderns which keeps the scarcities from becoming apparent. Let's just say this belief tends to be far more common than the coins.



    Of course something like a Gem '72-D quarter is quite common and even significantly higher demand wouldn't have much effect on it's $1 price tag. Of course there are millions of rolls of things like '64-D cents and '79-D cents. Even if there were massive demand it's unlikely these coins could even break 10c at the wholesale level. But most moderns simply don't exist in extremely large numbers. To put this in perspective a few decades ago it was already growing impossible to put together something like an original roll set of eagle reverse quarters. It doesn't matter how much money you have to put into it today, it probably can't be done in any reasonable lenght of time even with extensive advertising.



    People treat these coins as all being common but the reality is they merely seem common because the only thing rarer than the coins is any demand.
    Tempus fugit.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: coinkat

    Bill- as hard as it may seem to believe there is- various sets from Panama, Belize, Trinidad & Tobago (among others...) in the 1980-84 have low mintages and then discount the mintage figures to account for sets that have been melted. Some are quite elusive.



    These sets have a fairly small following, but it seems to be growing. I suppose there are those that would suggest it really could not get smaller...




    There's far more explosive growth in prices for everyday "common" base metal coins from countries like India. They started at lower levels and have achieved much higher levels for stupendous percentage gains.



    Of course all these markets are very thin because the supply is as thin as the demand.



    Tempus fugit.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,430 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: cladking
    Originally posted by: BillJones
    The potential is always there for "one way markets" in the modern area because for most issues the supply is very high.


    It's this widespread belief that suppresses the demand for moderns which keeps the scarcities from becoming apparent. Let's just say this belief tends to be far more common than the coins.

    Of course something like a Gem '72-D quarter is quite common and even significantly higher demand wouldn't have much effect on it's $1 price tag. Of course there are millions of rolls of things like '64-D cents and '79-D cents. Even if there were massive demand it's unlikely these coins could even break 10c at the wholesale level. But most moderns simply don't exist in extremely large numbers. To put this in perspective a few decades ago it was already growing impossible to put together something like an original roll set of eagle reverse quarters. It doesn't matter how much money you have to put into it today, it probably can't be done in any reasonable lenght of time even with extensive advertising.

    People treat these coins as all being common but the reality is they merely seem common because the only thing rarer than the coins is any demand.



    I can't get enthused about any business strike clad coins. They don't do anything for me. I don't find them attractive, and if I can get a set of Proof coins (much prefer silver) for that year, I am satisfied.


    Yes, I know I high grade those pieces must be scarce because most of them were so poorly made, but I feel no collector "bite" to get involved with them. My comments about "one way markets" were limited modern commemorative coins and Proofs which I do collect. When I buy them it is at the lower raw coin set prices, but even then I know I'll never get my money back on them unless their melt value increases as it has done for the gold commemoratives I own.


    I can feel an affinity for the pre 1965 dimes and half dollars. I think that the Washington Quarter is unattractive. I couldn't even get interested them when I was YN in the 1960s and could have plucked them circulation. I dislike Lincoln Cents in Gem BU red, because they can turn on you without warning, and if that happens, they are not a lot better than pocket change. I not a fan of red copper and the high prices that go with it.



    I have a Choice BU set of silver Roosevelt dimes that I have owned for many years. My fingers itch for the Franklin Half Dollars now and then, but my better sense tells me to stay away. I lost a bundle on a set of those when I was college student circa 1970. I have all the Proofs in my Proof sets plus the 1948 and '49 coins. That is enough.



    I content myself with the 1948 P and D coins that remind me of the issue ceremony Mint Director, Nellie Tayloe Ross held at the Franklin Institute on April 29, 1948. According to the article that appeared in "The Numismatist" each guest was given a card with one of the new half dollars "affixed" to it with a short statement about the event. I'd love to find one of those cards, but so far as I know, none are known to the hobby.



    That's my take on modern coins, and at this late date, it's not going to change.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,898 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm also uninterested in clad coinage. It started actually circulating in very early 1966 so fifty years has now passed. It just does nothing for me. I recall being at a large show where the supposedly finest known collection of slabbed Ike Dollars was on display. I walked by without even giving it a glance.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is even common base coinage from Panama from the 1975-1985 time frame with very low mintages...



    While I appreciate moderns such as these are not followed by folks on the US coin forum, all I am doing is providing information about a small component of the coin market and addressing whether there in fact is a two way market.



    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: 291fifth

    I'm also uninterested in clad coinage. It started actually circulating in very early 1966 so fifty years has now passed. It just does nothing for me. I recall being at a large show where the supposedly finest known collection of slabbed Ike Dollars was on display. I walked by without even giving it a glance.



    Are you saying it's a "zero-way" market?
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: 291fifth

    I'm also uninterested in clad coinage. It started actually circulating in very early 1966 so fifty years has now passed. It just does nothing for me. I recall being at a large show where the supposedly finest known collection of slabbed Ike Dollars was on display. I walked by without even giving it a glance.




    I had seen a few '65 quarters by Thanksgiving 1965.



    Most clad is ugly and attractive clad is an acquired taste. I think the first really nice attractive clad I saw was around '68 when I saw a really nicely made '66 quarter that was already worn to AU-53 and was slightly dark. Sure there were others in Gem that had gotten my attention but they were "just" clad. It wasn't until a nice AU woke me up to the fact that these weren't going to be around forever and I began seeing them in a different light.



    Anyone who thinks that nice attractive moderns are common in any condition simply aren't collecting them. Anyone who still thinks all clads are junk probably isn't going to change their perspective at this late date.



    But I wonder how people who hate clad so much percieve something like an aluminum Indian coin going through the roof. These are far "junkier" than cu/ ni and have very utilitarian designs but all the post 1949 Indian coins are hot. Of course if you're a buyer you'll have to worry about a secondary market. Most of the buyers are likely collectors so having a secondary market is a little less important.



    It's easy to lose site of the facts that mintages are irrelevant and only survivorship and demand matter. It's easy to lose sight of the fact markets mature.



    Tempus fugit.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Obsessive compulsive disorder is only a problem to those who don't have it.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ck is quite right about these Franklin Mint coin issues - there are some that have really performed well (actually much better than recent US) such as the 82-85 Belize, Panama, Trinidad. Some of them were treated as Bill thinks of them & as bullion only were melted or in the case of CuNi proofs just dumped at "no value" & combining this with a low original mintage have created sets that may trade in the 6-800 dollar range.



    Obviously the silver crowns did not circulate, and for the same reason that we don't see post 65 US coins other than the pot-metal 65-70 Kennedys. But circulating pieces were produced that did in fact reach the designated country.



    This does not include the earlier issues of Bahamas, Jamaica and others, but if one selects carefully can find these "cherrypicks".







    One may choose also to note that Gilroy Roberts and Don Everhart (now an engraver for the US Mint) undoubtedly produced some beautiful designs....
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: 7Jaguars

    Ck is quite right about these Franklin Mint coin issues - there are some that have really performed well (actually much better than recent US)


    ...


    One may choose also to note that Gilroy Roberts and Don Everhart (now an engraver for the US Mint) undoubtedly produced some beautiful designs....



    Good to know about Gilroy Roberts and Don Everhart. I've always liked these sets artistically. Good to see they are getting some collector interest as well.
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Given the current state of the hobby, I anticipate more of the two-way markets becoming
    one-way markets image FUN is normally a great show to sell at, but not sure if I'll bother bringing much this year.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most coin dealings these days are 'one way '. ??
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    I think it has always been a one way street except in a rising market. As long as coin values are going up on a monthly basis it may have seemed like a two way street.



    That said some decent dealers in a lot of places will run both ways with some of there better customers as long as they feel they are getting the better end of the deal.
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file