Average widget collector better off with "C" coins?

pennyannie

At what point does paying up for a coin come out in the collectors benefit? If you are a under 5000 per coin collector does the " pay up" help or hurt you in the 3 to 10 year term? There are always exceptions to the rule but in general..

I would not pay up for a ms65 blast white 1881 's' morgan or a Iowa commen in ms 64

You have heard a million times that buying off grey sheet pricing will ...

Boosibri

Hasn't it always been about paying up for the right coin, a special coin, not just any coin or a specific price range.



Special coins break the price guides regardless of the absolute price point.



A white 81-S Morgan hardly fits the model of "paying up".

Justacommeman

Only if they are paying D prices



mark

Sonorandesertrat

Since the last recession, 'C' coins have been illiquid. I cannot imagine how buying such coins, even at 'C' prices (maybe at 'D' prices, as Mark pointed out) would work out well. For some 'C' coins, it would be smarter to crack them out and hope for a downgrade.

The greater liquidity and hype associated with 'A' coins stems mostly from the greater possibility that they will be ripe for upgrades in the future.

TwoSides2aCoin

Average widget collectors are better off with above average widgets.

Zoins

For "C" coins, are we talking about the A/B/C grading scale? In that case, there are no real "C coins", only "C grades" right? For example, could regrading a "C coin" suddenly make it a "B" or "A" "coin"?

Sonorandesertrat

Zoins,
I was referring to A/B/C fractional grading. For some types of generics (e.g., Saints or Morgans), there are so many that one could reasonably argue that fractional grades are meaningful. For other coins that are not plentiful, I have my doubts. Regardless, if grade inflation slowly creeps into the future, it seems to me that 'A' coins would be the smart move, even if they cost more now.

Zoins

Originally posted by: Sonorandesertrat

Zoins,

I was referring to A/B/C fractional grading. For some types of generics (e.g., Saints or Morgans), there are so many that one could reasonably argue that fractional grades are meaningful. For other coins that are not plentiful, I have my doubts. Regardless, if grade inflation slowly creeps into the future, it seems to me that 'A' coins would be the smart move, even if they cost more now.

My thoughts were along the lines of the bean and +'s TPGs offer. In both cases, it seems like assigning a different grade could turn a "C coin" into an "A coin" but it may be fine to use the "C coin" shorthand. I was wondering if we should call them "C grade coins" for more specificity but that may be too verbose.

291fifth

Does anyone really want "C" coins anymore? Will anyone want them in the future? Collectibles can fall out of favor and stay that way. Buyer beware if buying "C" coins.

Zoins

Originally posted by: 291fifth

Does anyone really want "C" coins anymore? Will anyone want them in the future? Collectibles can fall out of favor and stay that way. Buyer beware if buying "C" coins.

The "C" is with respect to the grade. Get a "C" coin regraded and it can become an "A" coin.


Buy the coin....

Sonorandesertrat

"My thoughts were along the lines of the bean and +'s TPGs offer. In both cases, it seems like assigning a different grade could turn a "C coin" into an "A coin" but it may be fine to use the "C coin" shorthand. I was wondering if we should call them "C grade coins" for more specificity but that may be too verbose."

Getting a 'C' coin downgraded could result in an 'A' coin at the lower grade, and improve its liquidity in some cases.

Cougar1978

I don't think 5000 is in the budget of most collectors. Try 300......

I don't buy low end coins regardless of value range.

BryceM

Most widget collectors are better off collecting for the joy of collecting.

david3142

There are additional criteria for coin enjoyment. A, B, or C for the grade is one thing. Eye appeal (personal preference) is another. There are A coins with CAC stickers that are ugly (at least to me) and there are non-beaned C coins that are gorgeous. Just the same there are MS63 coins that have much greater eye appeal than some MS66 coins of the same date/MM. Collect what you like that's within your budget.

CuKevin

Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin
Average widget collectors are better off with above average widgets.

I 100% agree. In any scenario I can think of (coin market crashing or etc.) the better than average material will still command better than average prices. Just my thoughts.

CuKevin

Originally posted by: BryceM
Most widget collectors are better off collecting for the joy of collecting.

This might be the case as well, but I'd still rather have items that are nicer (to both me and the market) even for my own enjoyment or if they ever are sold.

Ablinky

I'm with Kevin on all thoughts.

Nap

I don't think it's wise advice to anyone to buy overgraded or "just barely made the grade" coins. However, there is certainly a place for these items. After all it's just a piece of plastic with a numeric grade. The coin is the coin, and it's not necessarily junk just because it's not high end for the grade. Just need to be priced accordingly.

david3142

Most of the time when people say you should collect "high end for the grade" what they really mean is "high end for the price". A collection of "A" MS63 coins is inferior to a collection of "C" MS64 coins (assuming comparable eye appeal just going strictly by technical grading) but the former probably cost a lot less. If you can buy a PCGS 65 coin that you think is overgraded, but it's selling for 64 money, why not?

bidask

Because of the well known bifurcated market I think ' c' coins may be a great buy now.

mirabela

We're speaking in generalities here, but here are some things I've found to be true:

1) there is a price at which just about anything has a buyer

2) the coin that is notably more appealing, in one or more obvious ways, than its nominal comparables in the grade/price range, is always worlds easier to sell

3) there is great plurality in the market; my junk is somebody's treasure, and my treasure is somebody else's junk -- there are collectors in echelons below mine, above mine, and overlapping mine.

4) "paying up" makes some sense if the coin in question is notably nicer (see #2 above) than any other nominal comparable available near that price.

The trouble, in my view, comes when the market exhibits big gaps in established pricing from named interval of quality to the next. Like, say, a *really nice* Sesqui half in awesome, just-barely-not-Gem 64. Obviously you're going to have to pay "up" for that, but how much is "up?" Double the market trend for a "normal" one? Or triple? Or market +25%?



Which brings me back to the note about generalities -- I try not to get involved with a coin like that unless I know the issue and the market for it well enough to feel pretty confident that somebody else will be just as willing to pay "up" as I am.



I don't know most issues, or follow the vagaries of their markets, well enough to be confident of that sort of thing -- but I can tell a nice coin when I see one. Over time, I've done a lot better trying to find the nicest things I can buy near "normal" price ranges, than I have at finding the right "exceptional" prices for exceptional items. I understand there are rarified areas and levels of the market in which this type of logic fails, but it's served me well.



YMMV.

Musky1011

Buy what you like and let your heirs take care of the rest.

FredF

Depends on definition of a "C" coin. To me, a C coin is a coin that technically may make the grade, but is below average in eye-appeal. Say you take a MS65 1914 Barber Quarter that is a "C" coin. NGC's price guide (I had it open) is $970, cheapest in the series. It meets the technical criteria but below average looking. So it may not be fully struck but it's exactly like it left the mint. Or the toning on it is natural, no dipping or cleaning, but splotchy. If it is a crack-out and downgrade to MS64, that cuts the price guide price roughly in half down to $550. But it still is below average looking. If you drop it down to a grade like MS61 where the coins tend to have issues just to hit that grade, then you might have something that is the "cutest member of the ugly family" so it may look good for coins in that grade, but the price guide for a MS61 is $264. So you take a bath on it. Not a good purchase.



A 1914 Barber quarter is not a widget. But I'm betting you would find similar percentages in other series or use other grades instead of the MS range (again, that's just the price guide page I happened to have open).



Here's my general guide. If the only way I can afford a given grade is to buy a "C" coin, then I can't afford that grade. Drop down a grade or two. If the best grade I can afford for a coin is a MS61 or MS62, then buy an AU53 because odds are it's going to be better looking and cheaper. Almost 100% of the time, I'd rather have an "A" coin a grade or two lower than the "C" coin, and I don't see "C" coins becoming "A" coins if you drop the grade low enough unless it's ridiculous - drop a "C" MS63 down to XF45 and yes, it would likely be an "A" coin for that grade, but that's just a silly thing to hope for with a crackout.