Where does it end?

wrighty

All that extra stuff is useful for some folks who may want it.



If you don't care about plus-grades and green beans and all that jazz (and I don't blame you if you don't- most of it is a big yawn for me, too), then just ignore it. I do, mostly.



But let those who want it have it. Those of us who don't care about it can go on as we always have, assessing the coins we like ourselves, the way we want to.



While I agree with you that it's becoming overkill (at least I think that's your point), I don't see any harm in it, aside from the fact that it does complicate things a little in the marketplace.



In the end, to thine own self be true, and let the rest go fly a kite.

oih82w8

I once asked someone to take a look at some coins at the auction location and he told me that they were not as they appeared in the images. I took that as they were worse...wrong they were better and he got them for himself. I have not been able to ask anyone else again to do my investigation for me.

ricko

I agree with LordM.... I do my own evaluations... The dependence on TPG's and FPG's

has become a crutch for many and usually reflects a weakness in their personal grading

skills... Or, another viewpoint... looking for status symbols in collections... also, resale value to collectors....Cheers, RickO

wrighty

I find that if I can't view a coin in person that I do utilize the grading company, designations, and or CAC stickers as a crutch to help validate what I can see from online photos. Well that maybe wrong I believe all those things were developed for just that reason and I have more coins in my collection that are not stickered because I was able to view them in person and relied on my own opinion and knowledge though much more limited than a seasoned dealer.

BryceM

Nobody knows where we go from here. From the outside looking in, the US rare coin market seems to be quite mature for a collectible market. Since the qualities that cause coins to be desirable are mostly subjective, there will never be complete agreement on what constitutes a nice coin. Tastes wander around over time too.



A large number of people have figured out how to take a cut from each coin transaction. Ultimately it's the collector that bears this burden. It's accepted because most who buy are nervous about their own grading skills. Don't think I'm bashing the TPGs, because I'm not. They've cleaned up a messy market and removed quite a bit of uncertainty. It has gotten to the point though that most coins are appraised (graded / stickered) every few years or even more often. In the end, each of these events is a tax on the eventual transaction.

lordmarcovan

Originally posted by: wrighty

I find that if I can't view a coin in person that I do utilize the grading company, designations, and or CAC stickers as a crutch to help validate what I can see from online photos.

Nothin' wrong with that, IMHO. That's what all that is there for. I think it's only a "crutch" if you depend on it too much. Otherwise it's a tool.

jayPem

Well said Bryce...you've described quite nicely the very phenomenon that has me scratching my head.

Just how much added cost can be tacked on before the end users finally say whatever and walk ?

TopographicOceans

You should use it as a learning experience.

You saw the coins online and you had someone look in person.


Instead of saying "none were all there" you should discuss each coin with your rep while both viewing the pictures. He can explain why he said to pass on each coin.


Coins have become both a commodity and art.


No two coins of the same grade look exactly alike. I guess it really comes down to eye appeal in the end.

AMRC

We love to make up ambiguous phrases like "none were all there" to support our opinions. The fact of the matter is, it is just OUR opinion. I have seen many coins I liked for various reasons and then show it to the numismatist right next to me and it does nothing for them. Is one of us a better "collector"? If you do not think the "+" grades, or the green beans mean anything, go to the next auction viewing and look at 10 or 20 coins side by side. Will each coin hold up to the scrutiny? OF COURSE NOT. Will they statistically be better coins. I would bet money on it. I do not know why we jump to the conclusion that these aspects of coin grading are a substitute for anything? What they are to me, is a way to distinguish coins you may want to consider LOOKING at.

ctf_error_coins

I just buy the coin or not.

The coin is all that matters.

Baley

It ends with a notarized certificate of analysis for each individual coin, that conveys to the new possessor of the piece when the coin changes ownership, signed by the top research experts in numismatics, as to the precise provenance, auction history, and specific characteristics and qualities of the coin, including die variety, planchet and strike quality, surface preservation, and any and all additional words and numbers, charts and graphs, photographs and enlargements, pertaining to that particular specimen and its unique identifying traits. This will be a long document that may be printed out, but will probably also be in digital format and encoded in the tamper proof holder.

MidLifeCrisis

Originally posted by: wrighty

Opinions appreciated.

The slabs, pluses, stickers, etc. are all opinions. The dealers have opinions too.



Form your own opinion and you'll appreciate the coin.

ms70

It won't end. The TPG's will always come out with something new that someone will buy and the non-interested will have to tolerate / ignore.

leothelyon

Did you also leave a tall order with your scout to take into account while he looked at the coins for you? That could have been the problem. I couldn't scout for some collectors because of the garbage they collect, it would be pointless. I'm just no good at reading some of the crystal balls that rest upon some shoulders out there. Perhaps your scout wants the coins himself. How you found someone that sees coins exactly like you do is amazing and rare or the guy pretended enough so he could get paid? Oh, the ambiguity..........I mean, all the diatribe you were able to write, you don't have the answer to your question? Just about everything gets advertised to the gilt so that it sells. Most coins trade as commodities, they're not all necessarily collector coins. You need to do the best you can with the tools available. The only way to avoid mistakes......is to completely stop buying.



Leo

dpoole

Seems appropriate to dust this one off:



Link

bidask

My question for the OP.

Had the dealer giving you asked to look at the coins in hand said they were nice......and you decided to buy one or all of them ......would you have paid the dealer a % ....?

lordmarcovan

Dpoole- I think I remember that one. Great meme generator!

asheland

Originally posted by: dpoole
Seems appropriate to dust this one off:

Link

LindeDad

Originally posted by: dpoole

Seems appropriate to dust this one off:



Link

and finally got my breath back after trying read the ramble with no spacing.

wrighty

To bidask yes I would have paid the dealer a fee. I'm editing the spacing as it didn't post how I had typed it.

TigersFan2

I like the TPG for several reasons over raw coins.

1. If something happens to me, my wife has coins with a third party grading that is easier for her to deal with.

2. It helps with buying coins as on Ebay, I'm not going to trust the sellers grading.

3. I don't trust my own grading, especially at differentiating between MS grades.

ambro51

It ends 47,000 years from now when archeologists discover a copper disc believed to be from a non existent country called "America" and the man portrayed is thought to be a Leader or God called "Lincoln"

derryb

It never ends. Now labeling "Wide Reeds" on normal AGEs since the discovery of a "Narrow Reed" variety. Wonder how long before other normal coins with a known variety get a new, "normal" label.

Zoins

It ends at enlightenment when you know what you want without relying on the opinions of others.



Sure, use other opinions, but the decision is yours at the end of the day.