Originally posted by: baseball My guess, if you polled every housewife in the country, a SUBSTANTIALLY larger population will know who Mickey Mantle is and have no clue who Clemente is. My guess is that it will be that way long after we are pushing up daisies.
I would bet my wife can name exactly one athlete, period, and it's a kinda/sorta/we'll see how the back surgery goes this time active player who's not in any of the major sports, just a Majors one If pressed to name a second athlete she would be stumped. Besides how many housewives buy vintage cardboard?
CenteredMantles - My guess is by the time he's in third grade, Clemente will be the topic of one of the weekly reading assignments, especially as the curriculum continues to be more standardized across the country. I'm sure I can walk into my sons elementary school and 60+% of the kids know who Roberto Clemente is, and few, if any, have heard of Mantle.
I guess we will just have to wait another 20-30 years to see if those kids have an interest in cards. Maybe by then Mantles will cool
Larkin, The exact opposite is true of my 13 year old and his buddies...bottom line is we all have different experiences and different interests and come at things differently...I can appreciate your opinion but just don't agree with it as Mantle is simply an Icon that will stand the test of time as baseball goes.
Baseball, your negative demand is countered by my positive demand. I do think your points are valid though and it'll be interesting to see how it all unfolds short and mid term...long term is too tough to call.
KC - I used to work out with the Big Hurt and I met Banks when I was 6 and got a personalized autograph to prove his greatness...my Mom absolutely loved him.
Lastly, I for one hope the supply of great looking PSA Mantles come to market at reduced rates over the next few years and I'm one of the few demanding them so I can obtain them for less. How crazy does that sound? Decades, who really knows.
I still have a game where we played them at Auburn my junior year on Fox Sports, and my wife asked why he was so much bigger than me - he was hitting and I was catching. I explained he was 6'6 250 - might have been the reason why. Missed playing against Bo by one year. Where did you train with Frank?
When he played for the Sox he worked out at Lake Shore Athletic Club with his personal trainer. I lived downtown and worked on Michigan avenue right across the club. My interests were treadmill and racquetball tournaments and I would see him all the time. From time to time I'd lift weights next to him and talk with him and his trainer. He was so cool. This was the off season so he would spend hours at the gym from what I saw and take his workouts slow and fun. He never participated in the social thing though..meaning, when one worked out it was usually followed by community steam/sauna/whirlpool then shower and get on with the day or evening...good stuff though. I was mid 20s suit and tie thinking I was on top of the world, lol.
Originally posted by: baseball It's rather tiresome hearing about Mantle and what he could have been. What he WAS was the greatest player of his era by a good margin. His peak wasn't as long as Mays or Aaron but during those 12 years or so, he was WAY better than Mays or Aaron or anyone else. As for an OPS+ difference of 29 vs Mathews, that is a HUGE if one understands what OPS+ and how it's calculated. And Mathews was a total STUD. Which shows just how good Mantle was because he was that much better than him.
As for Mantle, apart from being the BEST of his era by FAR, he also has the following:
-played his entire career as the main front man for the most storied franchise in sports history -played in the biggest media market in the WORLD -was a part of 7 World Series champions and went to several others -won a triple crown -won 3 MVPs (and was ripped off of even more than that) -handsome white guy in the dawn and burgeoning era of TV (big factor, think of JFK, Mantle is the baseball/sports equal)
If people can't grasp why he is so popular, and rightly so, then they just aren't understanding some simple facts about life and the world we live in.
As for his cards, I believe all cards are materially overvalued and will not hold up over the long term at these types of levels (inflation adjusted). Having said that, as long as cards are worth money, I'm very confident that Mantle will ALWAYS have a strong premium to any of his contemporaries. The premium may vary from time to time but it will always be substantial IMO.
A better question would be why Clemente or Koufax are as expensive as they are, not that I have any problem with it as I contribute toward that in my own small way. Or why Eddie Mathews or Frank Robinson (especially Frank) are so cheap.
This! To compare Mantle to Mathews and make it sound like "he was ONLY a little better than this dude" is funny. Mathews is only the second best 3rd basemen ever. and when he retired he was the best thrid baseman ever and was until some gy named Schmidt came and move him down into second.
Originally posted by: belz On a seperate note, what's the over/under on final price of the upcoming PWCC Mantle 8 auction? I'll set it at 407k. I do wonder what kind of special arrangement the consignee has with Brent. It'll be fun to watch.
Back on topic...although Mantle was an absolutely amazing player from what I've seen on tv and read...player performance has little to do with value of card. His speed and home run blasts and good looks coming up with NY is what makes him most everybody's favorite to collect. Didn't Seaver have better numbers than Ryan?
Anyway, I was gawking at my 58 this morning...by no means is that probably anyone's favorite Mantle card, but it's mine!!!
I am going with the over on it - guessing $425-445k. Bet bidding gets over $300k early to scare off stragglers followed by a late $60-80k push at the end.
Mantles value is driven by men who grew up in the 50's and 60's and now have a ton of money coupled with a huge case of nostalgia. There will come a time when the baby boomers are dead and gone and Mantle will not retain the demand thus the value will drop.
Originally posted by: 49ersGuy Mantles value is driven by men who grew up in the 50's and 60's and now have a ton of money coupled with a huge case of nostalgia. There will come a time when the baby boomers are dead and gone and Mantle will not retain the demand thus the value will drop.
"If" that happens the entire card market goes with it. Without Mantle the top end of the baseball card market shrinks and everything from Aaron to Clemente to Rose to Bench goes with it. The saying high tide raises all ships definitely applies here. Most never saw Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Jackson, or Wagner play but their values keep rising and the folks that followed them have been gone for a while. If the most famous card(52 Mantle) drops in the future all other cards drop with it. That means a new group will be able to afford it and demand will push it back up.
The more I think about this the more I think vintage will continue to grow in high demand and hofers that we love will be the cornerstone. Look at all the kids, teenagers, young adults that are flooding the market buying modern. There is a local card shop by my house filled with these young adults and they love vintage but feel its unattainable yet they make big purchases for autograph cards that are all the same and gem mint and 100s of variety. If these kids continue to collect and mature, in my opinion they will go after the scarcer hofers that dad or grandpa talked about.
KC, you're right on with Babe Ruth and the likes...those cards are gold and if prices dropped there, Ruth would have to be my next project. Not happening.
When the baby boomers die off in say 25 years, that still leaves all those who want Mantle's cards who are today in their late 20s to 50s. That is still a large pool of buyers-- a number of buyers that far outstrips the number of strong Mantle cards.
Again, how many of the graded 53Bs, 54Bs, 55Bs, or 57Ts have a cleanly focused face and nice centering? How many 53T's have a red corner? How many 51s of all those graded have great registration? The numbers of those will be way smaller than the amount of buyers for many decades to come. So unfortunately for this collector and others who'd love to see some more affordable great Mantle cards, his cards' prices are going nowhere except up.
In the end, though: does anyone really give a rat's behind what may or may not happen in like TWENTY YEARS or more? No one is going to forego the next twenty years of enjoyment or pass on acquiring a card they love today or even in 2017 because, "Hey, two decades from now, if I even am blessed enough to live that long, maybe my '54 Bowman Mantle might be worth a grand less than I paid."
Regarding the player, peak performance is a big part of the statistical discussion that just can't be overlooked. Many fans love peak performance. It fires the imagination. Alongside post season heroics. Those areas are where Mantle shines and captures minds. Then there's the way he spoke at the end of his life, which humanizes the man. So the total picture with all the angles goes well beyond seasonal averages.
+1 DM23...Yes in 40 yrs the Mantle fans will be fading away...as will the clemente, e matthews, yaz and aaron fans...im not concerned about the value of what i have down the road, just that i enjoyed my collection for 30-40 yrs (that would be a win)...im not about to forego 30 years of enjoyment by sitting there saying "they're dying off, prices should start going down..any day now...still waiting..." And finally at age 80 get my 2nd Mantle. "yeah, save a thousand bucks...in 2055 dollars"
Just enjoying the hobby now, the discussions here and the friends made from here. I didn't grow up in the 50-60s but still a big collector as are guys younger than me. If card values drop, so be it, Mick will be the last of them.For all the reasons mentioned. Iconic American "hero" etc. Not a 2008 red refractor, signed sticker, questionable patch of Arod. Still waiting of Ruth, Cobb Gehrig prices to drop. Im priced out of them as Im slowly becoming priced out of Mantle. He's next.
Interested in higher grade vintage cards. Aren't we all.
I had a buddy of mine who introduced me to PSA cards back in the mid 90's make a very interesting statement which I think was dead on then and stands today in regards to collecting - holds true for cards, art, cars... Collect things that you enjoy looking and enjoy no matter what the value or price. If you collect things you like, that remind you of a simpler time, that take you back to your years playing little league with your brothers while being coached by your dad you will enjoy them immensely. If you collect something just because of the monetary value the only enjoyment will come from the price appreciation of that card or cards.
I don't collect boxing cards or hockey, but can appreciate those that do collect them. If all of the sudden I inherited some Marciano and Lefleur rookies I would sell them to make money to buy things I enjoy. Collect what YOU enjoy, and if they double or triple in price you might be able to sell some to buy more of what you really like. I think my buddy and his advice hold as much truth today as they did 20 years ago.
Collect what YOU enjoy, and if they double or triple in price you might be able to sell some to buy more of what you really like.
I completely agree. Collecting what you enjoy takes the pressure off of any potential monetary return on your investment. You will be satisfied with your collection regardless. If prices end up crashing back down to earth then you have an opportunity to enjoy more cards as your collection will grow for less money.
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.
I hoarded Mantles in vg-ex+ some 10-12 years ago. I think prices today are in line with those past purchases and probably keeping up a bit with inflation. But I think the graded family dynamics has softened in the lower grades. Ironically, a week ago before I saw this post, I was checking graded Mantles. I was surprised to see 6 or 7 '52 T copies up for sell. Most of these were priced pretty high, up to $70K. I don't know if these are just feelers being thrown out there, or if these are actual sellers (supporting the selling possibility by the original poster). I think the lower grade stuff might offer some deals. I don't think I answered the question asked, because I think that is yet to be seen. The hobby isn't really growing and I believe the younger generation is more interested in cash than cardboard overall. I'm entering my 60's; my kids view my collection as an inheritance, not a passion or hobby. I don't know any other collectors anymore and everything seems to be online, as there are just two stores left in San Antonio. I would love to go to one of the national sports shows just to see who dominates purchasing of 50's-60's material.
CURRENT PROJECTS IN WORK: To be honest, no direction, but... 1966-69 Topps EX+ 1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9 All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
On a long term basis I don't see how you can't think many of Mantle cards will be in demand. In the short run I think we are experiencing classic bubble symptoms. If you disagree with the herd they get upset and every single person says they hope they fall so they can buy more.
The last sale of the 1952 Topps PSA 8 was significantly lower then the prior one. Heading into the auctions I am sure many felt the card would achieve a similar price to the recent high sale. Instead of disappointment excuses were made which once again coincides with markets that have peaked.
My generation was conditioned to believe that the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle was the card to own and I personally believe it is a relic of American history that will always be desired and especially in the highest grades. That said when you have a parabolic move higher it is only natural at some point to either consolidate or correct significantly. If one truly believes they can hold the card for the long term I think the odds of losing money over a 20 year period are extremely low.
The bigger risk obviously is lower grade copies of his later and more common years. You could see less demand for a full Mantle run but the 1952 Topps will be one of the baseball cards to own permanently. So long as people desire cards they will desire this one. It is no longer a baseball card but a piece of art.
The over whelming percentage of collectors are indeed white and this certainly adds to the appeal of his cards. I also believe his short cumming's in life humanize him and actually lead to even greater interest.
There are just a fraction of people who are alive that witnessed Honus Wagner play but the rarity and mystique of his famous issue has intrigued collectors for decades and the same will be true for the best Mantle cards. Over the long term I think many of his cards are the closest thing to a sure fire bet but just like stocks that break away from their trend lines in a significant manner you may have to deal with an extended period before the next major move higher.
Originally posted by: belz On a seperate note, what's the over/under on final price of the upcoming PWCC Mantle 8 auction? I'll set it at 407k. I do wonder what kind of special arrangement the consignee has with Brent. It'll be fun to watch.
Back on topic...although Mantle was an absolutely amazing player from what I've seen on tv and read...player performance has little to do with value of card. His speed and home run blasts and good looks coming up with NY is what makes him most everybody's favorite to collect. Didn't Seaver have better numbers than Ryan?
Anyway, I was gawking at my 58 this morning...by no means is that probably anyone's favorite Mantle card, but it's mine!!!
I am going with the over on it - guessing $425-445k. Bet bidding gets over $300k early to scare off stragglers followed by a late $60-80k push at the end.
Called it on this one with bidding over $300k in first hour to scare off small bidders. You can send my payment via paypal for my winning bet
Look at the bidders info that have driven this up 200k. 81% with 9 retractions and 97% with 18 retractions. Hardly the two you want running this up so quick.
Originally posted by: Dpeck100 Look at the bidders info that have driven this up 200k. 81% with 9 retractions and 97% with 18 retractions. Hardly the two you want running this up so quick.
BTW...belz..i think we may have crossed paths in Chicago in my 20s also.Lived downtown then at that age. Got a feeling a few of us are basically the same age and of course interests.
belz..im like you...sold off my unopened awhile back and have been putting it into mantles etc.
KC..i mirror your thoughts on the price movement.
dpeck...nice pickup. hope we have legit bidders here on out and get a true sense of its value. It was hitting 200k regardless. Prob just some trolls that can say that they bid on the '52 8.
To bad my family needs a place to live or id be bidding.
Interested in higher grade vintage cards. Aren't we all.
I can't take this anymore...I think all of us Mantle guys need to get together with all our Mantles and some high end *****tails and just gaze at our collective collections together. That 56 9 is just so sick and I can picture it sitting next to my 58. I might try to get my 56 bumped to a 8.5 the next time PSA is around, along with a couple others (which I believe is in a couple weeks in rosemont - woohooo).
Originally posted by: belz I can't take this anymore...I think all of us Mantle guys need to get together with all our Mantles and some high end *****tails and just gaze at our collective collections together. That 56 9 is just so sick and I can picture it sitting next to my 58. I might try to get my 56 bumped to a 8.5 the next time PSA is around, along with a couple others (which I believe is in a couple weeks in rosemont - woohooo).
Sounds good to me. I cannot make it to Chicago due to being "forced" to go to Puerto Rico for a national sales meeting, so I will have to make it the next time in the spring or definitely at the Natty. Hoping I can pick up a Mantle rookie, another 56 in an 8.5, and a 1958 in 8/8.5. Might try to bump my 8.5 as well - several folks have said it is close enough to attempt.
WOW. I had no idea this topic would get so many posts. Thanks for all the great input. I started this a few days ago and got busy this week so I didn't have time to jump in but I have been reading the responses when I get a chance.
I might be repeating what others have said but here his my take on this. I started with cards from the late 80's-early 90's. Mantle was always a big name but it seems like his cards really exploded with this recent spike. Me personally, it would be nice to have some nice Mantles but not a requirement for my collection. Now the 1952 Topps is a whole different ballgame. I fee like that is one of the most iconic cards that actually can go beyond sports cards collectors. The 1952 has many factors that should keep prices sky high, scarcity and age, legendary story about Topps high numbers being dumped, first Topps Mantle, record prices keep it on peoples minds, and on and on. Someone posted that it could be considered "art". I never thought of a baseball card as art but maybe that is where it is going. I think that will keep collectors and investors interested for years. Now other Mantles I don't know. Are 1960's Mantles going to keep jumping in price? My guess is yes and no. I think the demand might drop off as generations age.
Now, my side story. I had a 1967 Mantle that my uncle gave me in the late 80s' that he found in a closet with some other late 60's cards. It was so beat up but I was proud of it. Well I got greedy a few years later and sold it for I think $50. It was $200 high book value. That is one card that would have been nice to have all these years later as a keepsake. My guess is with condition being such a huge factor now it would not even be worth $50 today.
Love those 70's - early 80's packs and boxes...send me a message if you are selling because I am buying
Don't have the original but do have the artwork that was signed by Mantle. They also did the same for the 53 Mays as well. I can send you a photo if you want to see what it looks like. Doing PR middle of November before turkey day - staying at the Waldorf El Conquistador on the eastern side of the island. Last time I was there was playing my freshman year of college Xander stayed next to the Condado hotel.
Comments
My guess, if you polled every housewife in the country, a SUBSTANTIALLY larger population will know who Mickey Mantle is and have no clue who Clemente is. My guess is that it will be that way long after we are pushing up daisies.
I would bet my wife can name exactly one athlete, period, and it's a kinda/sorta/we'll see how the back surgery goes this time active player who's not in any of the major sports, just a Majors one
CenteredMantles - My guess is by the time he's in third grade, Clemente will be the topic of one of the weekly reading assignments, especially as the curriculum continues to be more standardized across the country. I'm sure I can walk into my sons elementary school and 60+% of the kids know who Roberto Clemente is, and few, if any, have heard of Mantle.
I guess we will just have to wait another 20-30 years to see if those kids have an interest in cards. Maybe by then Mantles will cool
Baseball, your negative demand is countered by my positive demand. I do think your points are valid though and it'll be interesting to see how it all unfolds short and mid term...long term is too tough to call.
KC - I used to work out with the Big Hurt and I met Banks when I was 6 and got a personalized autograph to prove his greatness...my Mom absolutely loved him.
Lastly, I for one hope the supply of great looking PSA Mantles come to market at reduced rates over the next few years and I'm one of the few demanding them so I can obtain them for less. How crazy does that sound? Decades, who really knows.
-handsome white guy in the dawn and burgeoning era of TV (big factor, think of JFK, Mantle is the baseball/sports equal)
If people can't grasp why he is so popular, and rightly so, then they just aren't understanding some simple facts about life and the world we live in.
Many years ago Mr. Mint wrote a book on collecting baseball cards and his #1 investment tip was: "Buy white and buy New York"
I remember his tip sort of rubbed me wrong when I read it but the world is what it is I guess. Perhaps things have changed a bit since then.
It's rather tiresome hearing about Mantle and what he could have been. What he WAS was the greatest player of his era by a good margin. His peak wasn't as long as Mays or Aaron but during those 12 years or so, he was WAY better than Mays or Aaron or anyone else. As for an OPS+ difference of 29 vs Mathews, that is a HUGE if one understands what OPS+ and how it's calculated. And Mathews was a total STUD. Which shows just how good Mantle was because he was that much better than him.
As for Mantle, apart from being the BEST of his era by FAR, he also has the following:
-played his entire career as the main front man for the most storied franchise in sports history
-played in the biggest media market in the WORLD
-was a part of 7 World Series champions and went to several others
-won a triple crown
-won 3 MVPs (and was ripped off of even more than that)
-handsome white guy in the dawn and burgeoning era of TV (big factor, think of JFK, Mantle is the baseball/sports equal)
If people can't grasp why he is so popular, and rightly so, then they just aren't understanding some simple facts about life and the world we live in.
As for his cards, I believe all cards are materially overvalued and will not hold up over the long term at these types of levels (inflation adjusted). Having said that, as long as cards are worth money, I'm very confident that Mantle will ALWAYS have a strong premium to any of his contemporaries. The premium may vary from time to time but it will always be substantial IMO.
A better question would be why Clemente or Koufax are as expensive as they are, not that I have any problem with it as I contribute toward that in my own small way. Or why Eddie Mathews or Frank Robinson (especially Frank) are so cheap.
This! To compare Mantle to Mathews and make it sound like "he was ONLY a little better than this dude" is funny. Mathews is only the second best 3rd basemen ever. and when he retired he was the best thrid baseman ever and was until some gy named Schmidt came and move him down into second.
On a seperate note, what's the over/under on final price of the upcoming PWCC Mantle 8 auction? I'll set it at 407k. I do wonder what kind of special arrangement the consignee has with Brent. It'll be fun to watch.
Back on topic...although Mantle was an absolutely amazing player from what I've seen on tv and read...player performance has little to do with value of card. His speed and home run blasts and good looks coming up with NY is what makes him most everybody's favorite to collect. Didn't Seaver have better numbers than Ryan?
Anyway, I was gawking at my 58 this morning...by no means is that probably anyone's favorite Mantle card, but it's mine!!!
I am going with the over on it - guessing $425-445k. Bet bidding gets over $300k early to scare off stragglers followed by a late $60-80k push at the end.
Mantles value is driven by men who grew up in the 50's and 60's and now have a ton of money coupled with a huge case of nostalgia. There will come a time when the baby boomers are dead and gone and Mantle will not retain the demand thus the value will drop.
"If" that happens the entire card market goes with it. Without Mantle the top end of the baseball card market shrinks and everything from Aaron to Clemente to Rose to Bench goes with it. The saying high tide raises all ships definitely applies here. Most never saw Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Jackson, or Wagner play but their values keep rising and the folks that followed them have been gone for a while. If the most famous card(52 Mantle) drops in the future all other cards drop with it. That means a new group will be able to afford it and demand will push it back up.
KC, you're right on with Babe Ruth and the likes...those cards are gold and if prices dropped there, Ruth would have to be my next project. Not happening.
Again, how many of the graded 53Bs, 54Bs, 55Bs, or 57Ts have a cleanly focused face and nice centering? How many 53T's have a red corner? How many 51s of all those graded have great registration? The numbers of those will be way smaller than the amount of buyers for many decades to come. So unfortunately for this collector and others who'd love to see some more affordable great Mantle cards, his cards' prices are going nowhere except up.
In the end, though: does anyone really give a rat's behind what may or may not happen in like TWENTY YEARS or more? No one is going to forego the next twenty years of enjoyment or pass on acquiring a card they love today or even in 2017 because, "Hey, two decades from now, if I even am blessed enough to live that long, maybe my '54 Bowman Mantle might be worth a grand less than I paid."
Regarding the player, peak performance is a big part of the statistical discussion that just can't be overlooked. Many fans love peak performance. It fires the imagination. Alongside post season heroics. Those areas are where Mantle shines and captures minds. Then there's the way he spoke at the end of his life, which humanizes the man. So the total picture with all the angles goes well beyond seasonal averages.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
Just enjoying the hobby now, the discussions here and the friends made from here. I didn't grow up in the 50-60s but still a big collector as are guys younger than me. If card values drop, so be it, Mick will be the last of them.For all the reasons mentioned. Iconic American "hero" etc. Not a 2008 red refractor, signed sticker, questionable patch of Arod. Still waiting of Ruth, Cobb Gehrig prices to drop. Im priced out of them as Im slowly becoming priced out of Mantle. He's next.
I don't collect boxing cards or hockey, but can appreciate those that do collect them. If all of the sudden I inherited some Marciano and Lefleur rookies I would sell them to make money to buy things I enjoy. Collect what YOU enjoy, and if they double or triple in price you might be able to sell some to buy more of what you really like. I think my buddy and his advice hold as much truth today as they did 20 years ago.
I completely agree. Collecting what you enjoy takes the pressure off of any potential monetary return on your investment. You will be satisfied with your collection regardless. If prices end up crashing back down to earth then you have an opportunity to enjoy more cards as your collection will grow for less money.
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.
-George F. Will
I don't think I answered the question asked, because I think that is yet to be seen. The hobby isn't really growing and I believe the younger generation is more interested in cash than cardboard overall. I'm entering my 60's; my kids view my collection as an inheritance, not a passion or hobby. I don't know any other collectors anymore and everything seems to be online, as there are just two stores left in San Antonio. I would love to go to one of the national sports shows just to see who dominates purchasing of 50's-60's material.
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
The last sale of the 1952 Topps PSA 8 was significantly lower then the prior one. Heading into the auctions I am sure many felt the card would achieve a similar price to the recent high sale. Instead of disappointment excuses were made which once again coincides with markets that have peaked.
My generation was conditioned to believe that the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle was the card to own and I personally believe it is a relic of American history that will always be desired and especially in the highest grades. That said when you have a parabolic move higher it is only natural at some point to either consolidate or correct significantly. If one truly believes they can hold the card for the long term I think the odds of losing money over a 20 year period are extremely low.
The bigger risk obviously is lower grade copies of his later and more common years. You could see less demand for a full Mantle run but the 1952 Topps will be one of the baseball cards to own permanently. So long as people desire cards they will desire this one. It is no longer a baseball card but a piece of art.
The over whelming percentage of collectors are indeed white and this certainly adds to the appeal of his cards. I also believe his short cumming's in life humanize him and actually lead to even greater interest.
There are just a fraction of people who are alive that witnessed Honus Wagner play but the rarity and mystique of his famous issue has intrigued collectors for decades and the same will be true for the best Mantle cards. Over the long term I think many of his cards are the closest thing to a sure fire bet but just like stocks that break away from their trend lines in a significant manner you may have to deal with an extended period before the next major move higher.
On a seperate note, what's the over/under on final price of the upcoming PWCC Mantle 8 auction? I'll set it at 407k. I do wonder what kind of special arrangement the consignee has with Brent. It'll be fun to watch.
Back on topic...although Mantle was an absolutely amazing player from what I've seen on tv and read...player performance has little to do with value of card. His speed and home run blasts and good looks coming up with NY is what makes him most everybody's favorite to collect. Didn't Seaver have better numbers than Ryan?
Anyway, I was gawking at my 58 this morning...by no means is that probably anyone's favorite Mantle card, but it's mine!!!
I am going with the over on it - guessing $425-445k. Bet bidding gets over $300k early to scare off stragglers followed by a late $60-80k push at the end.
Called it on this one with bidding over $300k in first hour to scare off small bidders. You can send my payment via paypal for my winning bet
Look at the bidders info that have driven this up 200k. 81% with 9 retractions and 97% with 18 retractions. Hardly the two you want running this up so quick.
+1
belz..im like you...sold off my unopened awhile back and have been putting it into mantles etc.
KC..i mirror your thoughts on the price movement.
dpeck...nice pickup. hope we have legit bidders here on out and get a true sense of its value. It was hitting 200k regardless. Prob just some trolls that can say that they bid on the '52 8.
To bad my family needs a place to live or id be bidding.
I can't take this anymore...I think all of us Mantle guys need to get together with all our Mantles and some high end *****tails and just gaze at our collective collections together. That 56 9 is just so sick and I can picture it sitting next to my 58. I might try to get my 56 bumped to a 8.5 the next time PSA is around, along with a couple others (which I believe is in a couple weeks in rosemont - woohooo).
Sounds good to me. I cannot make it to Chicago due to being "forced" to go to Puerto Rico for a national sales meeting, so I will have to make it the next time in the spring or definitely at the Natty. Hoping I can pick up a Mantle rookie, another 56 in an 8.5, and a 1958 in 8/8.5.
Might try to bump my 8.5 as well - several folks have said it is close enough to attempt.
I might be repeating what others have said but here his my take on this. I started with cards from the late 80's-early 90's. Mantle was always a big name but it seems like his cards really exploded with this recent spike. Me personally, it would be nice to have some nice Mantles but not a requirement for my collection. Now the 1952 Topps is a whole different ballgame. I fee like that is one of the most iconic cards that actually can go beyond sports cards collectors. The 1952 has many factors that should keep prices sky high, scarcity and age, legendary story about Topps high numbers being dumped, first Topps Mantle, record prices keep it on peoples minds, and on and on. Someone posted that it could be considered "art". I never thought of a baseball card as art but maybe that is where it is going. I think that will keep collectors and investors interested for years. Now other Mantles I don't know. Are 1960's Mantles going to keep jumping in price? My guess is yes and no. I think the demand might drop off as generations age.
Now, my side story. I had a 1967 Mantle that my uncle gave me in the late 80s' that he found in a closet with some other late 60's cards. It was so beat up but I was proud of it. Well I got greedy a few years later and sold it for I think $50. It was $200 high book value. That is one card that would have been nice to have all these years later as a keepsake. My guess is with condition being such a huge factor now it would not even be worth $50 today.
jsanz...you should def buy that 67 back for the memories
KC...when u going to PR? we've been planning a couples trip. prob around new years.
KC