Doing research on struck copies of Thomas Elder small gold Lincoln medals

CaptHenway

Thomas Elder struck some small (15 mm) gold medallions with Abraham Lincoln on them dated 1910, 1927 and 1939. The 1910 pieces had a reverse that said "TO THE EMANCIPATOR AND MARTYR A TOKEN." This one I catalogued in The Numismatist back in 1980 as DeLorey-47. The 1927 pieces had a simple wreath with "A TOKEN" and a pair of crossed axes inside. (DeLorey-48) The 1939 pieces had a fancier wreath with "A TOKEN" inside surrounded by 9 small stars. (DeLorey-49). Each was also struck in lesser metals.

There exist today various pieces dated 1910 and 1939 (and possibly 1927) struck from copy obverse dies and multiple reverse dies copied from the 1927 reverse with the crossed axes design. They come in gold and other metals. These may be modern or they may be older; I have one reference to one as early as 1959.

I would like to do the definitive article on these, originals and restrikes, for The Numismatist. I would appreciate it is anybody that has one or the originals or one of the copies message me with the information so that I can compile a census. I might also need pictures of some pieces later to be used with photo credit.

Thanks,

Tom DeLorey

CaptHenway

The 1927 from fake dies has been confirmed. There are also strikes from late die state original dies.

Still looking for information and sightings on these.

TD

Christos

Hello Tom,

Do you have any images you can share of the medals so we can visualize them while keeping an eye out for them?

Weiss

Not mine, but I definitely like it! Good luck, Tom. Hope you post a link to the article when/if you finish it!

ricko

Those are nice.... I like all gold coins/medals... Just another gold bug I guess... Cheers, RickO

CaptHenway

Thanks for posting the picture. The obverses are all similar with the three different dates.

The 1910 reverse says: TO THE EMANCIPATOR AND MARTYR/ A TOKEN

The 1927 reverse has a simple wreath with A TOKEN and a pair of crossed axes within.

The 1939 reverse has a slightly fancier wreath with A TOKEN inside a circle of stars inside the wreath.

The fakes of the three different dates all use a reverse die copied from the 1927 reverse.

TD

dcarr

A dealer friend of mine had some "1927"-dated gold pieces which appeared to be somewhat newer vintage. They were definitely restrikes of some sort.
When examining the date area under a loupe, it appeared that the date on the die had been changed from "1977" to "1927".

CaptHenway

<< <i>A dealer friend of mine had some "1927"-dated gold pieces which appeared to be somewhat newer vintage. They were definitely restrikes of some sort.
When examining the date area under a loupe, it appeared that the date on the die had been changed from "1977" to "1927". >>



Pictures of our 1927 sent.

Any idea what fineness his pieces were?

TD

CaptHenway

bump

Zoins

<< <i>A dealer friend of mine had some "1927"-dated gold pieces which appeared to be somewhat newer vintage. They were definitely restrikes of some sort.
When examining the date area under a loupe, it appeared that the date on the die had been changed from "1977" to "1927". >>



Wow. That is interesting.

Using hobby terminology, it seems that the copy die pieces should be referred to as restrikes, a la New Haven restrikes.

CaptHenway

<< <i>

<< <i>A dealer friend of mine had some "1927"-dated gold pieces which appeared to be somewhat newer vintage. They were definitely restrikes of some sort.
When examining the date area under a loupe, it appeared that the date on the die had been changed from "1977" to "1927". >>



Wow. That is interesting.

Using hobby terminology, it seems that the copy die pieces should be referred to as restrikes, a la New Haven restrikes. >>



There are some pieces struck from the original 1927 dies in a very late, heavily repolished die state. We are going to call those restrikes.

The pieces struck from newly-made dies we are leaning towards calling counterfeits, though novodels is a possibility.

Just because the Fugio cent imitations were called "Restrikes" and the name stuck is no reason to call everything made from newly-made dies a restrike.

TD

CaptHenway

Dug up Elder's advertisement for the 1939 tokens from the Dec., 1938 The Numismatist. Curiously, it says that there will be a reference on it to the 1939 NY World's Fair, but the piece makes no reference to it. Perhaps the Fair told him that he would have to pay a licensing fee to do so?

asheland

I just found this thread. I have an opportunity to get one of these restrikes. I'll post pictures in a few minutes...

asheland

Edit:
Better pictures

CaptHenway

Nice.

The differences between the originals, the restrikes and the counterfeits can be found in an article I co-wrote in The Numismatist in 2017.

asheland

Tom, do you know the appropriate period my example was made? And by whom?

Also, the purity?
I can’t seem to find any of this information so far....

asheland

I had it scanned today. 14K basically.

CaptHenway

The question of who made the restrikes and when is discussed at length, but without resolution, in my article.

See The Numismatist, Feb. 2017. P. 49.

asheland

Thank you!

Zoins

@CaptHenway said:
The question of who made the restrikes and when is discussed at length, but without resolution, in my article.

See The Numismatist, Feb. 2017. P. 49.

Are there candidates?

CaptHenway

Bashlow is the prime suspect, but no evidence.

Idahosurfer

@CaptHenway said:
Thomas Elder struck some small (15 mm) gold medallions with Abraham Lincoln on them dated 1910, 1927 and 1939. The 1910 pieces had a reverse that said "TO THE EMANCIPATOR AND MARTYR A TOKEN." This one I catalogued in The Numismatist back in 1980 as DeLorey-47. The 1927 pieces had a simple wreath with "A TOKEN" and a pair of crossed axes inside. (DeLorey-48) The 1939 pieces had a fancier wreath with "A TOKEN" inside surrounded by 9 small stars. (DeLorey-49). Each was also struck in lesser metals.

There exist today various pieces dated 1910 and 1939 (and possibly 1927) struck from copy obverse dies and multiple reverse dies copied from the 1927 reverse with the crossed axes design. They come in gold and other metals. These may be modern or they may be older; I have one reference to one as early as 1959.

I would like to do the definitive article on these, originals and restrikes, for The Numismatist. I would appreciate it is anybody that has one or the originals or one of the copies message me with the information so that I can compile a census. I might also need pictures of some pieces later to be used with photo credit.

Thanks,

Tom DeLorey

I have a 1910. Excellent coin.