This seller got it back it appears and he's put it back up on old ebay. No negative left but no positive either....hmmmmmmm the mystery continues...(for me anyway) bob
"How do you guarantee its authenticity? It seems very odd that you'd be selling a coin worth over $10,000 (if authentic) at a $100 starting bid. For about $25, you can send it to PCGS or NGC and have it authenticated and graded. Spend that $25 and if authentic, you'll easily sell it for double or triple what you can sell it at now. No one will throw that much money at a raw coin they can't see in person and authenticate. Financially, it makes no sense for you to not get it professionally authenticated and graded."
And here's his response.
"As evident as this coin is 100% authentic is the fact that you are an uneducated neophyte that has no business atrempting to invest in this field. Anyone with a moderate background in numismatica can easily recognize from the simple photos provided multiple markers of aunthenticity on this coin and make an asssssment of value based on past performance and personal desire. Any of those potential buyers, if a winning bidder, may choose to have one of the big three, of any other for that matter, authenticate and slab after acquisition. But that is a CHOICE, not an imperative, please stick with franklin mint novelties until you develop some acumen before entertaining the notion of true numismatic rarities"
I recommend others report it to Ebay as counterfeit. The seller seems unapologetic or interested in the truth. I've reported it but I expect that Ebay needs many reports before they remove an auction. Thanks.
<< <i>Comparing it with some Heritage archived pieces, the MM and date look right but the denticles and surfaces definitely don't. Puzzling. >>
It is probably a spark erosion counterfeit that was copied from a genuine coin. The date and mint mark would be in the right place, but details, like the dentils would have be entered by hand, which resulted an unevenness which gives the piece away as a counterfeit.
The dangerous thing about this new generation of "circulated" counterfeits that the crooks are now selling is that the "wear" can hide the problems with details that used to be a giveaway for previous fakes. One of the problems counterfeiters faced was that the deepest fine detail was weak or missing because the design could not be brought up completely in the deepest recesses of the dies. Now these things with "wear" can get around that, because it looks like the detail was lost in "circulation."
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I asked him what his guarantee would be and told him the coin was FAKE.
You are 100% wrong and 150% ignorant of numismatics and the readily discernible markers of authentic carson city seated lib coinage. The placement and shape of the cc alone, from a single reverse die for ALL strikes of 1870-1873 quarters, very tough to imitate and never seen to such precision, is an almost irrefutable tell. I guarantee this authentic with a 200% refund policy if adjudged counterfeit by any of the big three, which would not happen, to ANY potential buyer except you, who will now be blocked due to miseducation or utter paucity of such. Stick to your hummel collection and go away
The weakness of the bases of A R in DOLLAR and the weakness of the righthand C of the mintmark are the easiest tells for me that the coin is fake, as they are certainly not the result of uneven wear. These areas of the reverse do not correspond with high points on the obverse, and even the VF 25 example in Coinfacts shows a full strike in this area as compared to the balance of the reverse on a well circulated example. Reported.
I asked him what his guarantee would be and told him the coin was FAKE.
You are 100% wrong and 150% ignorant of numismatics and the readily discernible markers of authentic carson city seated lib coinage. The placement and shape of the cc alone, from a single reverse die for ALL strikes of 1870-1873 quarters, very tough to imitate and never seen to such precision, is an almost irrefutable tell. I guarantee this authentic with a 200% refund policy if adjudged counterfeit by any of the big three, which would not happen, to ANY potential buyer except you, who will now be blocked due to miseducation or utter paucity of such. Stick to your hummel collection and go away >>
He is good at the insults. I got the same type of insults when I wrote him about the coin. Look near the beginning of the thread for his response to me.
The reason why it's listed as an auction is because BIN coins over a certain amount ($2500 maybe?) must be graded by an eBay-approved TPG.
As the post below shows, this was in an ex-NCS holder. Obviously, someone cracked it out. Presumably to get it authenticated by NGC or PCGS, but that's only speculation. The fact that it's still raw makes me wonder why it's not in new plastic. It probably came back body bagged.
1870-CC Quarter, Fine Details First-Year, Key-Date Issue
1870-CC 25C -- Repaired, Whizzed-- NCS Genuine. Fine Details. The low mintage of 8,340 coins from Carson City, in that mint's first year of coinage production, ensures the key date status of this important issue. This dove-gray example shows the faintly granular surface textures associated with "smoothing", or "whizzing". The remaining design detail seems more than adequate, for a Fine Details designation, and all of the letters in LIBERTY are evident and virtually complete. From The Collection of Donald E. Bently, sold for the benefit of the Bently Foundation.(Registry values: P9, N9) (NGC ID# 23UL, PCGS# 5477)
wow-how hard is it to do a little background before getting mobby on someone >>
If this guy wanted to avoid such problems he should have sent the coin into NGC or PCGS. Today such coins get a "details" grade if they are genuine, which enhances the value and trust level to a great degree.
You can't offer a coin like this raw with surface issues that call into question its authenticity, and not expect prudent collectors to be suspicious.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I wrongly interpreted NCS for a 5th party slabber....forgot that was NGC's restoration service handle. But, this brings up the question as to why would it be sent for conservation? I still don't get it and perhaps never will as these messed with coins just fog the authenticity issue for me.
Oh, and to be perfectly honest crow does not taste too bad.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
I couldn't tell you if it's fake or not but the stars on the obverse look like starfish and the reverse shows wear on some high spots that still appear quite high. I dunno how that's possible if metal hasn't been moved around a bit.
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
Mystery solved. Had I looked more thoroughly at the HA archives I'd have found it. The coin's been repaired and then whizzed to mask the repair job; I suppose that explains the weird denticles. Someone probably had a coin doctor fix it. This guy is still dodgy as he's taken a problem coin, cracked it and is now selling raw with the inference that it "may have been cleaned" when he knows full well it has been, and more.
Because of the damage to the coin it gives the appearance of being a counterfeit. The seller is being very dishonest in how the coin is being listed and should be held accountable for that if nothing else. Whizzed is way beyond just cleaning and no amount of album or window toning is going to make this coin look better. If someone wants it for $8000.00 they must really need one and they don't care what it looks like. They do have an award for the ugliest dog.
It's like I told him in my message to him this morning... Send it to PCGS. If it's authentic, it'll be put in a genuine holder. Putting a PCGS Genuine coin on Ebay will achieve a much higher bid than the raw coin and make for a much more honest auction. Both buyer and seller benefit. The seller will more than recoup the cost to send it to PCGS. And he responded to this advice with insults. I assume he knows what he has and prefers to look for a "sucker" buyer.
Comments
Pretty rough fake, but not 100% obvious to the uninformed.
Sent seller a message to articulate his guarantee
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
"How do you guarantee its authenticity? It seems very odd that you'd be selling a coin worth over $10,000 (if authentic) at a $100 starting bid. For about $25, you can send it to PCGS or NGC and have it authenticated and graded. Spend that $25 and if authentic, you'll easily sell it for double or triple what you can sell it at now. No one will throw that much money at a raw coin they can't see in person and authenticate. Financially, it makes no sense for you to not get it professionally authenticated and graded."
And here's his response.
"As evident as this coin is 100% authentic is the fact that you are an uneducated neophyte that has no business atrempting to invest in this field. Anyone with a moderate background in numismatica can easily recognize from the simple photos provided multiple markers of aunthenticity on this coin and make an asssssment of value based on past performance and personal desire. Any of those potential buyers, if a winning bidder, may choose to have one of the big three, of any other for that matter, authenticate and slab after acquisition. But that is a CHOICE, not an imperative, please stick with franklin mint novelties until you develop some acumen before entertaining the notion of true numismatic rarities"
It looks genuine to me.
What's the 'fake' indicator?
Just wanted to add, I'm in no way an expert on this date, nor am I interested in bidding on it.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
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he never shipped it out.
bob
Absolute counterfeit coin Collectors Universe verified watched for removal HPA violation
I reported the coin under 5 different categories but only under copyright can you leave a MSG.
<< <i>OK guys, help me out.
It looks genuine to me.
What's the 'fake' indicator?
Just wanted to add, I'm in no way an expert on this date, nor am I interested in bidding on it. >>
The denticles are inconsistent on the obverse. Not all the same length. That's the one that jumps out at me. Wear seems very forced and unnatural.
August 12th Auction
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Comparing it with some Heritage archived pieces, the MM and date look right but the denticles and surfaces definitely don't. Puzzling. >>
It is probably a spark erosion counterfeit that was copied from a genuine coin. The date and mint mark would be in the right place, but details, like the dentils would have be entered by hand, which resulted an unevenness which gives the piece away as a counterfeit.
The dangerous thing about this new generation of "circulated" counterfeits that the crooks are now selling is that the "wear" can hide the problems with details that used to be a giveaway for previous fakes. One of the problems counterfeiters faced was that the deepest fine detail was weak or missing because the design could not be brought up completely in the deepest recesses of the dies. Now these things with "wear" can get around that, because it looks like the detail was lost in "circulation."
I asked him what his guarantee would be and told him the coin was FAKE.
You are 100% wrong and 150% ignorant of numismatics and the readily discernible markers of authentic carson city seated lib coinage. The placement and shape of the cc alone, from a single reverse die for ALL strikes of 1870-1873 quarters, very tough to imitate and never seen to such precision, is an almost irrefutable tell. I guarantee this authentic with a 200% refund policy if adjudged counterfeit by any of the big three, which would not happen, to ANY potential buyer except you, who will now be blocked due to miseducation or utter paucity of such. Stick to your hummel collection and go away
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>OK guys, help me out.
It looks genuine to me.
What's the 'fake' indicator?
Just wanted to add, I'm in no way an expert on this date, nor am I interested in bidding on it. >>
Look at the two casting dimples on the first A in America.
bob
<< <i>Here was his response
I asked him what his guarantee would be and told him the coin was FAKE.
You are 100% wrong and 150% ignorant of numismatics and the readily discernible markers of authentic carson city seated lib coinage. The placement and shape of the cc alone, from a single reverse die for ALL strikes of 1870-1873 quarters, very tough to imitate and never seen to such precision, is an almost irrefutable tell. I guarantee this authentic with a 200% refund policy if adjudged counterfeit by any of the big three, which would not happen, to ANY potential buyer except you, who will now be blocked due to miseducation or utter paucity of such. Stick to your hummel collection and go away >>
He is good at the insults. I got the same type of insults when I wrote him about the coin. Look near the beginning of the thread for his response to me.
As the post below shows, this was in an ex-NCS holder. Obviously, someone cracked it out. Presumably to get it authenticated by NGC or PCGS, but that's only speculation. The fact that it's still raw makes me wonder why it's not in new plastic. It probably came back body bagged.
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wow-how hard is it to do a little background before getting mobby on someone
First-Year, Key-Date Issue
1870-CC 25C -- Repaired, Whizzed-- NCS Genuine. Fine Details. The low mintage of 8,340 coins from Carson City, in that mint's first year of coinage production, ensures the key date status of this important issue. This dove-gray example shows the faintly granular surface textures associated with "smoothing", or "whizzing". The remaining design detail seems more than adequate, for a Fine Details designation, and all of the letters in LIBERTY are evident and virtually complete.
From The Collection of Donald E. Bently, sold for the benefit of the Bently Foundation.(Registry values: P9, N9) (NGC ID# 23UL, PCGS# 5477)
Did NGC get it wrong?
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>http://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-quarters/quarters-and-twenty-cents/1870-cc-25c-repaired-whizzed-ncs-genuine-fine-details/a/1204-4229.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
wow-how hard is it to do a little background before getting mobby on someone >>
If this guy wanted to avoid such problems he should have sent the coin into NGC or PCGS. Today such coins get a "details" grade if they are genuine, which enhances the value and trust level to a great degree.
You can't offer a coin like this raw with surface issues that call into question its authenticity, and not expect prudent collectors to be suspicious.
My Early Large Cents
<< <i>http://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-quarters/quarters-and-twenty-cents/1870-cc-25c-repaired-whizzed-ncs-genuine-fine-details/a/1204-4229.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
wow-how hard is it to do a little background before getting mobby on someone >>
tyvm.
i was giving it my best effort to fault the coin but couldn't (breathe a sigh of relief). for sure a match of the heritage coin.
havent checked feedback, sold items etc to attempt to determine if the coin is in the sellers hands.
that response, while firm, is not like any i've gotten from scammers and ive gotten all kinds and read all kinds from other's ebay accounts.
keep up the search!
.
handle. But, this brings up the question as to why would it be sent for conservation? I still
don't get it and perhaps never will as these messed with coins just fog the authenticity
issue for me.
Oh, and to be perfectly honest crow does not taste too bad.
bob
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>But, this brings up the question as to why would it be sent for conservation?
bob
it sold at heritage in the holder so may have been sent to heritage raw for ncs or submitted prior to consignment.
who knows what it looked like pre-april 2014.
.
.
<< <i>What an angry guy. Even if the coin was authentic, his attitude is not helping the hobby. >>
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<< <i>I still have my Hummel & Franklin Mint collections to fall back on.
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