Capped Bust Half Experts: Question

Coin Finder

Why are so many Capped Bust Halfs "No Grades or detail grades" in your opinion?

DIMEMAN

I'm not a CBH expert, but I would say because so many were cleaned to try and make them look higher grade than they actually are. Same with Barber halfs.

JMHO

LindeDad

Yes cleaned by collectors that was common back then, it was even accepted practice into the 1950's. And all pre-date that that are real.
Ever see one of those nice wire brushes they sold then.
Heck I just looked on eBay there are cleaning kits listed with nice wire brushes in then now.

keyman64

Adding in an extra 75-100 years of extra handling, some of which by people that do not know what
is best for the item and there you have it.

Nap

I'm not sure if there's a higher percentage of cleaned CBH's than other contemporary coins. There are just a lot of CBHs out there.

There seem to be more 'messed-with' bust coins than seated coins, for reasons already mentioned, and because bust coinage has long been more popular than seated.

shorecoll

I knew a dealer that operated from probably 1950 to 2000 or so and harshly cleaned every coin he ever touched. It's a miracle as many have survived as there are. Probably 4 of the 5 dealers I knew as I grew up dipped everything they saw, but we was the worst in baking soda, polishing cloth, etc. Made me sick. I wouldn't even look in his case after I realized what he was doing. I'm sure he thought I was a snob.

shorecoll

By the way, there should be even more in "Details" holders...I see scratched busties in slabs all the time and I know if I had submitted them, they would bag. IMHO.

johnny9434

people want a better grade or want to make it look prettier so they clean it. who knows for sure why people do it. just saying

shorecoll

One of the dealers I dealt with told me...if he had a nice original toner Morgan or Walker it would linger in his case for months, if he dipped it, it would sell to the next person who saw it. He was in it for the money, so he did it.

Face102030

Is the 50c being doubled anything special?

Face102030

![](https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/

uploads/editor/39/zoeca409nxx6.jpg "")

COCollector

Undiagnosed OCD?

Whatever the reason, it's heartbreaking to see the results.

ricko

@Face102030...Welcome aboard.... I do not know the answer to your question, however, I am sure someone here does.... if not answered soon, start a new thread with your question and the pictures...also a picture of the entire coin. Cheers, RickO

Insider2

Easy, because they are very OLD and CIRCULATED. IMO, less than 10% of the entire mintage is problem free. The term "market acceptable" allows a great many unoriginal coins and problem coins to be straight graded. You show me a general U.S. dealers case at any coin show (no Bust specialists...LOL) and hardly any Bust half would be free of parallel HLNS or the "halo" effect. Thankfully, toning hides a lot of hairlines, gouges, scratches, and repairs!

In spite of what I know to be true, it is a great and popular series to collect. Have fun.

Face102030

Here is the entire coin

Face102030

Face102030

Insider2

The doubling is "special." Someone with a book can tell you if the variety is - O-111.

Face102030

Maybe I should send it off to pcgs

Insider2

@Face102030 said:
Maybe I should send it off to pcgs

Don't bother. Coin has problems.

Face102030

Oh what are they

Insider2

I just noticed that you are new here. I have only been around for a year myself so Welcome.

Rather than me posting anymore, why don't you print out images of your coin. Then go online to the Heritage auction site or just put in 1825 Capped Bust halves into google. Put in any date to see more coins. Study the coins and post what you see and think after you do some research.

One thing on your coin is VERY OBVIOUS. Everyone here will guide you along but you'll learn more if you figure out some things for yourself FIRST.

Face102030

The color or patina looks odd to me

Insider2

Why? What color/colors should it be?

Face102030

I assume it depends on factors such as how it was stored and in what and what metal. I have some of my grand fathers cardboard holders for type sets and they are toned around the edges. Mostly dark green and bluish. Others stored in paper sleeves are almost a charcoal grey all over the coin when magnified it is a medley of green and some blue. He was a vending machine owner back in the 50's and individual penny's stored in sleeves/ tiny plastic bags, they were change for cigarettes from vending machines I was told, are almost purple. Other Cooper stored in paper is almost black or really dark brown. But none are yellow

BIGAL2749

Sounds like you have a handful of very pretty coins. Any group pictures?

Face102030

Yes he has a bunch of nice coins and sets
The only photos I have at the moment are of the harts set. It is my favorite thing I believe.
I will take some of the others and share when I get some time.

Face102030

lkeigwin

@Face102030 said:
Is the 50c being doubled anything special?

That's not doubling...all three characters of "50 C" were recut by the engraver. Common enough, though the 1825 O.111 was pretty dramatic.
Lance.

lkeigwin

In the capped bust half series there are plenty of examples of doubling, largely due to occasional slop in the screw press which allowed for minor movement during minting. Liberty's profile is a common area and sometimes it can be pretty extreme. I have one bust half with unusual quadruple doubling.

The only true hub doubling is the 1820 O.108. It is a Class IV doubled die (offset hub doubling from centers misaligned).

The reverse WD was slightly offset during its second hub impression, leaving visible doubling on the left wing, talons, claws, leaves, berries and arrow heads.
Lance.

Insider2

@Face102030 said:
I assume it depends on factors such as how it was stored and in what and what metal. I have some of my grand fathers cardboard holders for type sets and they are toned around the edges. Mostly dark green and bluish. Others stored in paper sleeves are almost a charcoal grey all over the coin when magnified it is a medley of green and some blue. He was a vending machine owner back in the 50's and individual penny's stored in sleeves/ tiny plastic bags, they were change for cigarettes from vending machines I was told, are almost purple. Other Cooper stored in paper is almost black or really dark brown. But none are yellow

And your coin is yellow. Why?

Face102030

I don't have any idea. Is it something obvious?

Insider2

Yes! is it into or on top of the surface?

Face102030

It looks like it is sitting on top of the coin

Insider2

Right. Now what's hard, yellow and dried on top of the coin?

Face102030

No idea

Insider2

You've done pretty well so I'll give you a clue. The dry yellow substance on your coin begins with a "G."
Good Night.

lkeigwin

Insider, you know I respect your knowledge and experience. But I'm not a big fan of this pedantic, back-and-forth with a newer forum member.

I get the lesson objective. But let's cut to the chase. Don't you think?
Lance.

ldhair

Just be glad he can't use different color fonts.

Cacoinguy

Insider2 is being something that starts with a "D".

Insider2

@lkeigwin said:
Insider, you know I respect your knowledge and experience. But I'm not a big fan of this pedantic, back-and-forth with a newer forum member.

I get the lesson objective. But let's cut to the chase. Don't you think?
Lance.

Then you tell him what it is.

Insider2

@Face102030 Send me a private message and I'll help you as the "young ladies" around here don't like my teaching methods!

Cacoinguy

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

@Cacoinguy said:
Insider2 is being something that starts with a "D".

You hit that one on the head hahaha

Insider2

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

@Cacoinguy said:
Insider2 is being something that starts with a "D".

@Cacoinguy said:

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

@Cacoinguy said:
Insider2 is being something that starts with a "D".

You hit that one on the head hahaha

What do you two think about his coin? Nothing I see. You can keep bashing me all day long. It shows your age, IQ, and lack of numismatic knowledge. You both can PM me also. I'll be glad to help you answer the OP's question. Hint: The answer begins with a "G." Good Night.

PS I really hated to give you two "likes" and "agrees" as you really don't deserve the "points."

crazyhounddog

Why so uptight?

Cacoinguy

Look we get that there is glue on the coin.. Dont play games with the OP he obviously doesnt see it. People like you are what scares away newbies from the hobby. Its easy to type all this but if you and the op were standing face to face would you talk like that?

clarkbar04

A chemical that starts with A will remove it, you can find it at a h_rd_wa_e st_r_.

Insider2

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said: "Your momma and daddy may have failed at home training you if you truly believe your knowing something gives you a right to type disrespectful things that could have unpleasant consequences if spoken amongst men, and even some of the gals I know."

Ditto! Your post with the bag shows .... Now why not answer the OP's question. I've given enough information here that my wife guessed the coin's problem after looking at the image for about two seconds. On second thought, never mind. She has been to more grading seminars than you...LOL.

Insider2

@Cacoinguy said:
Look we get that there is glue on the coin.. Dont play games with the OP he obviously doesnt see it. People like you are what scares away newbies from the hobby. Its easy to type all this but if you and the op were standing face to face would you talk like that?

Thank you! @Face102030 DID SEE IT! He/she figured out the substance was ON the surface and was YELLOW. He/she was doing a great job. With a little more time he/she would have figured it out. It's too bad some members who did not have a clue (even given a hint) derailed the thread and focused on me!

Now, let's see who wants to be the one that tells him what to do next - both the proper method and the possible chemicals to use. I'll bet the "ex-perts" posting the "bags" above can explain everything in a "nicer" manner than I.

Insider2

Another thing that I have used BEFORE using A is GG. I cuts down on the residual f - l m.

Treashunt

@Face102030 said:
![](https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/

uploads/editor/39/zoeca409nxx6.jpg "")

It is an O-111, R-3.

Slightly scarcer variety.

But, you should really start a new thread to get more exposure 7 more answers.