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Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty

CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,644 ✭✭✭✭✭
I just finished a slow and careful second read of William Nyberg's recent book on Robert Scot. You can judge the importance of a book in my library by the quantity of annotations therein, and this will be one of the more marked-up volumes (the leatherbound stuff stays pristine while the "working copies" are used for research purposes). If you want to learn about engraving in early America, this is the book. Scot did everything - paper money, revenue stamps, medals, coins, and seals. The vast oeuvre supports analysis at the iconographic level, and Nyberg is clearly familiar with Lester Olson and David Hackett Fisher's books on patriotic imagery of the era. The coins take no back seat - Scot reworked the entire US series in the 1790s and this is well-covered.

This is the not the book to tell you what a great investment your 1797 half dollar is. Rather, this book gives you context on the people and historical forces that led to the creation of these generally pricey delicacies. I could not put it down - except to write a large number of notes in the margins. Barring discoveries of new archival material (unlikely) this will be the standard biography of Scot for the forseeable future.

My only quibble is the grouping of illustrations in the middle of the book rather than scattered throughout the text. That is just a matter of production cost, so we'll blame it on the publisher rather than the author image Still, at $24.95 this is about the most bang for the buck you can get for your numismatic research dollar.

(A previous thread on this topic got moved to BST, so I'll leave it to the reader at this point to execute a rather simple Google search.)
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Comments

  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Coinosaurus, a belated thank you for the review. Hopefully, this book will provide resolution to previously uncertain speculation as to what Robert Scot accomplished prior to his appointment as chief engraver of the US Mint, along with giving the reader an understanding of Scot's true talents and capabilities as an engraver. Scot had an important role through the American Revolution, most of which has not been previously published.

    Along with numismatics, there has been additional interest such as the Great Seal of the United States, in which the book provides new engravings to strengthen Robert Scot's attribution as the engraver of the original Great Seal die (and research that dispels Dr. Ben Carson's comment that the star constellation represents the Star of David). Robert Scot's appointment had also been used as a precedent for the Solicitor General's Office analysis of the Noel Canning Recess Appointments, which probably made misstatements about the history Robert Scot's appointment as precedent case
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Realone,

    Robert Scot always signed his name in America with one T (Scot), on the 9 or 10 surviving letters that he signed, on hundreds of copperplate engravings with his signature, and US Mint documents. His signed letters show the same signature, his copperplate signatures can show some stylistic differences over the years. His family grave marker has the names Sophia Scot (daughter who died at age ten), wife Eunice Scot, and Robert Scot. There is a picture of the grave marker in the book, which was discovered in research at the American Philosophical Society archives in Philadelphia. Scot did not use his initials except for "R" on many of his copperplate engravings, as he always spelled out his last name. Others in America, such as newspapers, often spelled his name with either one or two T's.

    He was born Robert Scott in Canongate, Scotland to George Scott and Allison Rutherfoord (Scottish women kept maiden names at the time). This was validated by Scottish government archivists and cross-referenced to several sources in the US, including when he was served as heir in Fredericksburg, VA (his residence at the time) when his father George died. Canongate was annexed into Edinburgh in 1856. Immigrants often changed the spelling of their names in America, as Robert did (Scott to Scot). A little information has recently come out of the Scottish archives that clarifies this, I may do an article update. No changes to the book, just a little additional information.

    edit - Scot usually signed his first name with the abbreviation "Rot" in his letter and document signatures, as he did on his estimate of 4th quarter 1795 engraving expenses that is included in the book.

    Realone - its best to buy the book to find outimage
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,644 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Scot seems to have a been a lot more consistent with his spelling than the coiner Henry Voigt, who randomly shows up as either "Voigt" or "Voight."
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great info on Robert Scot Nysoto. Love the background on his surviving signatures and gravestones. image

    Anyone know if many immigrants change their names today?
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Realone - glad you liked the book, I will post some good close-ups of Scot's sig - it will take a few days.
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just ordered the book, and am really looking forward to reading it.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was wondering if you could post a clear blow up of Robert Scot's signature as he did it in his engraving of "The Corinthian Order" and his seal of "St Andrew's Society"

    Images are below. I included the shield for the St. Andrew's Society of Philadelphia membership certificate engraved in 1789, as it is the same "heater" shape used in his Heraldic Eagle reverse coin design. Scot used similar themes and styles throughout his career, his earlier engraving attributes are sometimes found in US coinage designs. Scot's copperplate signature was in the English Roundhand script style, taught by Richard Cooper, Sr. in his Edinburgh engraving schools. Scot's handwritten signature was a little different, though similar.

    I also posted a portion of Robert Scot's estate inventory at the time of his death, which indicates that $2.02 was "found in pockets" when he died - possibly included a dollar, which I am thinking is the reason for your requests.

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    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One other question besides Sic Tyrannis figure being similar to the Virginia Happy While United was there any other matching characteristics? What proved that he did engraving for 1785 issue of Penn currency? And did he never do any contract engraving for Hall & Sellers Colonial Currency etc?

    Realone - The Virginia Happy While United medal was attributed to Robert Scot in the publication of Thomas Jefferson's papers edited by Julian Boyd et al., which included an invoice for the medals from Robert Scot to Jefferson. This was first published in a numismatic perspective by John W. Adams in the Volumes 3-4 1992 Am Journal of Numismatics. The interesting thing was that prior to the Jefferson papers publication, most thought the medal was a non-contemporary creation, as no person believed there was anyone capable in Virginia in 1780 to engrave such a medal.

    The Penn currency was proved by minutes of the 6-1-1785 meeting of the Supreme Executive Council of Pennsylvania.

    I did not find any direct evidence of Scot contracting for Hall & Sellers, although I suspect he may have done work for them. The Freemason's "Ahiman Rezon" of which Scot engraved the frontispiece, was printed by Hall & Sellers.
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Robert Scot did engrave notes for Robert Morris, not William, which is recorded in the Robert Morris Diary at the Library of Congress, and available on microfilm.

    The image of Scot's forecast for the Mint is a little fuzzy, I will see what I can do.

    edit - Robert Scot did engrave the 5-6-1776 Virginia Currency authorized by the landmark May 1776 Virginia Convention. The $4 pictured in my book was signed by Richard Morris, not the financier Robert Morris described above.
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also as to The Certificate of membership in the Society of Cincinati you do not mention that document , did you think that the Society was incorrect about who engraved the printed text since L'Enfant did the engraving artistry which didn't include any printed text?

    Robert Scot only engraved the text for the membership certificate of the Society of the Cincinnati, which was designed by influence of Pierre L'Enfant and others, and had evolved in design from an earlier (possibly anonymous) radical American engraving. L'Enfant did not do any design engraving, which was done in Europe. This is recorded in the Otho Holland Williams papers of the Maryland Historical Society, which I quoted by permission in my book.

    Robert Scot was highly sought after by that time for his engraving skills by American officers of the Continental Army, as George Turner, the Secretary of the Society of the Cincinnati, described Scot as the only engraver on the continent who could engrave to their expectations.
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Realone - per your request are Robert Scot handwritten signatures, "Rot Scot" as he usually signed. Most of the others I have are from private archives that I cannot post. These are from the National Archives at Philadelphia, from his 4th quarter 1795 engraving expense forecast, and his draft 4th page of his report to the congressional committee on the Mint in ~January 1795. Robert Scot's report is the most comprehensive engraving document of the first 30 years of the Mint, which was first published in a 2012 JRJ article that I had written. Scot's report is transcribed and printed in full in my book.

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    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Realone,

    The four images of Virginia currency in my book are the major types that Robert Scot engraved, including the radical Virginia seal design which depicted the ousting of the British monarchy. Each denomination will have some variation in the border design. More of these can be seen in Eric Newman's book The Early Paper Money of America, or in the Heritage archives.

    For the Pennsylvania currency, Scot engraved a copperplate that had eight denominations, which can be found in a full un-cut sheet in a January 2011 Heritage auction, lot 15283 of 1785 Pennsylvania currency (endnote 134 in the book). Each denomination had a slightly different design. The image in the book is for the twenty shillings.

    The Robert Morris notes engraved by Scot are rare, and some images can be found in Eric Newman's book.

    The 109 issues of paper money listed in the book that were engraved by Robert Scot have archival documentation. Other people have speculated on possible paper money issues that Scot may have engraved, but I did not include these. Prior to my book, there was no shortage of unfounded speculation, rumors, myths, fables, and biased opinion written by others about Robert Scot, which caused him to be the most misunderstood officer of the early US Mint.

    Hope this helps.
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Realone - hopefully this will answer your questions. The contents of the book can be validated with the primary and secondary sources in the bibliography. Some of the quotes from your previous posts do not match the book, which can confuse things.

    Robert Scot's estate was inventoried by the administrators under an $8000 bond, and they took great care to be accurate. The initial inventory was submitted on 12/5/1823 to Philadelphia County, a month and two days after Scot's death.

    Obviously, the administrators or Scot's children would not be allowed to search through the Mint for any personal items of Scot. The coins found "in drawer at Mint" would have been identified by Scot's direct report, Mint Director Robert Patterson. The amount found is stated in my book. The reconciliation of deposits to deliveries had long been accounted for in Mint records, and these special coins were outside of the records and were appropriately determined by Patterson to be part of Scot's estate, which the court evidently concurred with.

    This is all of the information I will be posting of Scot's estate, as I will be submitting an article that uses some of the additional information of Scot's inventory, in conjunction with other archival records, for individual coins along with the broader context of coinage designs.

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    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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  • kazkaz Posts: 9,265 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Realone, see p. 162 of the book which states it was $18.
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is currently no hardcover planned. We had wanted to keep the price of the book at a reasonable level so the general market may have an interest. I have had some good comments from people who are interested in history, but would not have bought the book if it was expensive.
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Realone - will send you a PM later. I had paid for permission on many of the book images from private institutions, such as the advertisement of Scot's search for an apprentice, which is owned by the American Antiquarian Society. I unfortunately cannot post the image here because the rights were paid only for the book, but I am searching for a copy of that issue to purchase, which I then could post.
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I did locate some original documents that validate Robert Scot as being partner of an engraving and modelling business, as an eighteen year old in Edinburgh, which adds more evidence to his preference of classical design. Article to follow when all the records are uncovered.

    Good questions by Realone.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great older thread.... I missed it last year (off working on a special project)...Cheers, RickO

  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nysoto, would you allow one to use any of your above posted photos if one wanted to write an article for the JRCS (John Reich Collectors Society) or similar/other publication?

    Afford, I would allow people to use the images that I have posted in this thread for articles, provided they notify me of their intent, and referencing the source and author in the article.

    However, I surmise the article may have assumptions that can be proven incorrect with historical documents, although it could add to interest of that area, and I do believe in the freedom of speech and press.

    Thanks Ricko for the comment!

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • edited February 6, 2017 10:11AM
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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Afford - I am looking forward to reading your article.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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  • carabonnaircarabonnair Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I enjoy the book threads on this forum. Just received my copy yesterday - very worthwhile!

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @carabonnair said:
    I enjoy the book threads on this forum. Just received my copy yesterday - very worthwhile!

    Mine arrived today! I can't wait to dig in. I am in desperate need of a more accurate perspective on Robert Scot.
    Lance.

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  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Photobucket ?

  • ldhairldhair Posts: 7,345 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's Photobucket. For $400 per year, they will make your images show again.

    Larry

  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes - photobucket, which I will no longer subscribe to. I can restore most or all of these, cannot get to it until Thursday as I have some 12+ hour days coming up on my day job.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
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