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Please lend me an eye... CAC'd with Corrosion?

BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
1918-S, 8 over 7. NGC graded AU-58 PQ. CAC Approved.

Is that environmental corrosion that's eaten into the surface of the coin at 8 O'Clock on the obverse image

image

Lot 1023

1918-S, 8 over 7. NGC graded AU-58 PQ. CAC Approved. Nice old time obverse toning. Popular key date and especially well struck for this rare overdate issue. The surfaces are a delight and this example will stand tall in any advanced collection. The three leaves on Liberty's head are seldom found this sharp. It would be hard to imagine a more perfect example of this rarity without getting well up into the gem grade level, way beyond what this jewel will bring. Exciting quality and downright rare. The Liberty Standing quarter is truly one of the most elegant designs of the last century and this is the only overdate from the series. Pop 33; 53 finer .
Estimated Value $11,000 - 13,000.

image
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just toning with personality!

    Now, what truly strange is the dropped mintmark just right of the fig branch in Liberty's right arm.

    peacockcoins

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    keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,456 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't like deep dark spots like that. Black spots are damage, either now or very very soon!
    I would say it isn't just 8 o'clock that has damage or will have damage at some point soon.

    I disagree with the lot description. It is not nice old time toning. That is active corrosion in
    my opinion.
    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
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    CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Broadstruck the crusader, CAC blasphemer!
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not toning as you can see it is delaminating around the spot and it's not due to any sort of planchet impurity issue.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Not toning as you can see it is delaminating around the spot and it's not due to any sort of planchet impurity issue. >>



    Do you believe it happened after encapsulation or was it always there and PCGS along with CAC simply missed it?

    peacockcoins

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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Do you believe it happened after encapsulation or was it always there and PCGS along with CAC simply missed it? >>



    It's in a NGC holder and this coin didn't turn in the holder as it had issues well before being slabbed.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,078 ✭✭✭
    I think it's just a bad picture of toning. I don't see any delaminating or anything else to make me think otherwise.

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
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    lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    prefers you asking to lend me an eye with 16 or 17 type 1's as to strike quality and features
    image

    this
    looks like a swamp hickie to me

    yup
    a swamp hickie
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Now, what truly strange is the dropped mintmark just right of the fig branch in Liberty's right arm. >>



    It's not a dropped tiny D mintmark but a common die mark glob on the 1918/7-S over dates.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Broadstruck the crusader, CAC blasphemer! >>



    I don't mean to be as I'm not out there intentionally searching for this stuff just see it during my normal web travels.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    CuKevinCuKevin Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think it's just a bad picture of toning. I don't see any delaminating or anything else to make me think otherwise.

    -Paul >>



    +1
    Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com

    CN eBay

    All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Now, what truly strange is the dropped mintmark just right of the fig branch in Liberty's right arm. >>



    It's not a dropped tiny D mintmark but a common die mark glob on the 1918/7-S over dates. >>


    I was kind of joking about that... but honestly. . . difficult to think all those graders along with CAC missed what does appear to be
    obvious corrosion (photo wise).

    A possible speculation is although it looks bad, in hand it is not.

    peacockcoins

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    shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can't tell from the photo, but I wouldn't bid without a close in person look-see.
    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
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    FlatwoodsFlatwoods Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm on a tablet, which I don't trust as much as a larger screen, but all I see is toning.
    It looks that the speckled, multi color toning that seems to occur mostly on Standing Liberty quarters.

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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>this
    looks like a swamp hickie to me

    yup
    a swamp hickie >>



    That's a great term! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just blew it up to max resolution in my browser. Certainly looks like metal is missing. The color
    of the toning is identical to a badly corroded Roosie (straight-graded) I bought once on eBay.
    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I just blew it up to max resolution in my browser. Certainly looks like metal is missing. The color
    of the toning is identical to a badly corroded Roosie (straight-graded) I bought once on eBay. >>



    CoinJunkie, Thanks as I have no visual impairment and knew my eyes weren't playing tricks on me image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    agentjim007agentjim007 Posts: 6,256 ✭
    Ugly coin. Don't care how rare. Keep throwing your money at CAC.
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ugly coin. Don't care how rare. Keep throwing your money at CAC. >>



    Ugly... Now wait a minute as how can that be since it's being decribed as PQ, a Jewel, & Exciting Quality imageimage
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,888 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Is that environmental corrosion that's eaten into the surface of the coin at 8 O'Clock on the obverse >>

    And elsewhere. But I've seen worse CAC'd terminal toning.
    Lance.
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
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    winkywinky Posts: 1,671 ✭
    It's rare, that says it all.
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's rare, that says it all. >>



    I know but stretching market acceptability shouldn't be a factor when there are corrosion issues.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    goldengolden Posts: 9,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll go contrarian. I sort of like it. Great strike, great head, wholesome orig look. Not cleaned or screwed with all that much...if any. It's an AU58...not a MS63-66 where this could be a huge issue. I haven't been to a Goldberg's sale in 13 years. But, I don't think they've changed since then. I would expect them to be much more critical in the description of such a coin vs. the bigger auction houses if it had a serious issue. Just my hunch. If JA can live with this coin, I probably could to. I tend to disagree with him on brightly dipped silver type coins.....and this isn't one of those cases. If this was dipped, it was quite some time ago.

    I can't tell if that's corrosion or just the usual blackish/dark brown peripheral toning seen on original 1917-1918 SLQ's. CAC and NGC have seen the coin close up. How can I argue with them w/o seeing it?

    I've had CAC reject PF65 No motto seated halves from me that had a single micro black spot hidden on the coin....like many gem seated coins. They were afraid it was corrosion or could get worse. I owned the coins for 6 years and never saw them...lol.

    Nice overdate imo. And of course the majority will say "why isn't it in a PCGS holder?" Only the current owner (or Heritage) can answer that. If I refused to buy any original gem seated coins because of an isolated "black spot" or two on the coin, I'd have bought very few to none. My best seated coin ever was 85% white, 100% original, with a jet black rim. How it got that way, I don't know. But it's sister coin that Dave Akers bought out of the same sale, had the exact same pristine gem look...with a black rim.

    Ok. All toning is corrosion. I get that. It's technically a correct statement coming from a chemical engineer. So now what? Dip everything that is left?
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,976 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think it's damaged but it's not something that I find attractive, especially at that price level.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I've had CAC reject PF65 No motto seated halves from me that had a single micro black spot hidden on the coin....like many gem seated coins. They were afraid it was corrosion or could get worse. I owned the coins for 6 years and never saw them...lol. >>



    Well that's good to hear as with the amount of stickered stuff I've seen that makes me scratch my head... I thought it was time for them to train a few seeing eye dogs and change the name to Canine Acceptance Corp.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm guessing spittle from someone dead 30 years.
    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    Pick an eye , or pick a bone.
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    CoinZipCoinZip Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭
    That's one I would want to see in hand before bidding.....

    Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,490 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with Roadrunner on this one. I think that this coin is okay given what it is. I don't have a problem with the CAC sticker on this one.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are you talking about the toning at 7:30 or the very tiny dimple at 8:00? The toning seems normal. The dimple could be a very minor strike-thru. I would call it too minor to worry about.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    emzeeemzee Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭
    the "toning" on this coin is specks of dried-out die grease IMO.
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>the "toning" on this coin is specks of dried-out die grease IMO. >>



    Any areas of a coin that has remaining die grease present on the surface does not tone as it's inhibited from tarnishing.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's very difficult to make conclusions about 3D anomalies on a coin based on a single 2D picture, although it can be entertaining watching people try.

    I rather like this coin. When examining it in hand, I would look into the trail of black dots from the mint mark to the top right star, but I'm thinking the magnification is really exaggerating their severity.
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To all who criticize.... Post an image or link of an AU58 overdate you like

    Very wholesome. The thicker corrosion that shows up most obviously blends in well with the other corrosion around it. It's not active.

    Not only are you micro-grading the surfaces, or at least throwing out the baby with the bath-water, but that's a once-every-5-years head in any grade.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>To all who criticize.... Post an image or link of an AU58 overdate you like

    Very wholesome. The thicker corrosion that shows up most obviously blends in well with the other corrosion around it. It's not active.

    Not only are you micro-grading the surfaces, or at least throwing out the baby with the bath-water, but that's a once-every-5-years head in any grade. >>



    It's true this variety is tough to find non dipped at AU58 or under and especially with a complete Full Head.

    But calling this a once in 5 year coin for only having about 50% of only the top of the head is meaningless unless it also comes with a MAC 90FH sticker image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    agentjim007agentjim007 Posts: 6,256 ✭
    With maybe the exception of trophy coins there is seldom a coin that everybody likes or dislikes. It is what it is. If I had the kind of money to buy this coin I would find something else.
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    rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like the coin, and I think it is not corroded. Just a photo that makes the toning at 8:00 look heavier than it really is. Keep in mind that CAC saw the coin in person, and we're looking at a digital image.

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    jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,383 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The black splatter on both sides of the coin seem to be corrosive in nature, as some of the spots show a corrosion ring around them.

    Grading standards for a series shouldn't change because of the date or rarity.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
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    agentjim007agentjim007 Posts: 6,256 ✭
    Fact that CAC saw it in person and stickered it is concerning.
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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cool coin.

    I see nattering nabobs of negativity image
    Early Dollar Set
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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    double post
    Early Dollar Set
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    rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "The surfaces are a delight...". Not.

    Not sure what others are seeing but this coin clearly shows corrosion, not toning, IMO.
    PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like toning to me.

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    CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I see nattering nabobs of negativity image >>


    Never fear, the pandering purveyors of positivity have arrived on the scene to save the day...

    image
    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lend me an ear and I'll sing you a song, and I'll try not to sing out of KEY.






    Coin lovers only
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    ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭
    I bet the originality is nice in hand. Fresh enough that it would probably all dip off for those who prefer white coins......hehe.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

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    crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,823 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>prefers you asking to lend me an eye with 16 or 17 type 1's as to strike quality and features
    image

    this
    looks like a swamp hickie to me

    yup
    a swamp hickie >>



    I think Ted nailed it. It's a "Swamp Hickie"
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

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