<< <i>Sure, a lot of money will be made. But only after 401K's are decimated. That will make ready the way for banks and hedge funds to run it the other way....just like in 2008. >>
Anyone who was planning to start withdrawing from a 401k within the next few years, should have reallocated their investments by now to minimize such volatility. Those not withdrawing for 15 years or more shouldn't be fazed by the media hoopla of day to day market swings.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Sure, a lot of money will be made. But only after 401K's are decimated. That will make ready the way for banks and hedge funds to run it the other way....just like in 2008. >>
Anyone who was planning to start withdrawing from a 401k within the next few years, should have reallocated their investments by now to minimize such volatility. Those not withdrawing for 15 years or more shouldn't be fazed by the media hoopla of day to day market swings. >>
<< <i>Gold is for savings. Fiat is for transactions. >>
I always chuckle when I read that. Savings? Sounds like a great way to loose your capital. In my book, it's for investing, just like stocks, you need to know when to get in & out.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>Gold is for savings. Fiat is for transactions. >>
I always chuckle when I read that. Savings? Sounds like a great way to loose your capital. In my book, it's for investing, just like stocks, you need to know when to get in & out. >>
Maybe at your age. Ever think that there is a different makeup than the demographic you represent?
Do you think its my only holding?
Do you think I need to liquidate my position in order to put food on the table or pay bills?
<< <i> Maybe at your age. Ever think that there is a different makeup than the demographic you represent? >>
My age? Most in my age group 70+, are not brainwashed by the PM hype that's been rampant on the internet and in some circles.
<< <i>Do you think I need to liquidate my position in order to put food on the table or pay bills? >>
Did anyone say anything about you liquidating? Future market and or personal events likely will dictate that for you. >>
Oh c'mon OPA. You didnt use the word liquidating but you said "you need to know when to get in & out." How do you get out without selling your position then? Are you next going to tell me that there is a huge difference between the word selling and liquidating to deflect the real purpose of my post?
My point was that you have different criteria and time horizons than I (or anyone else) do. Yes, your age. No offense but odds are you do not have a 30-50 year investment time horizon. This might be where I differ from everyone else, I don't know. I have a very long term approach to my investments whether its stocks, real estate, pm's, coins or anything else that i would view as an investment (not speculation).
I would actually say that 80% or more of what I invest in, I will hold until my retirement (with two exceptions to that - if someone pays me well above what I believe the true value is for that particular investment or I can use a tax write off and can redeploy that capital into another investment). I am in the process of saving as much as I can off my and my wife's current salary as possible while raising a new born. I think our savings rate is nearing 55% now, and I working on ways of increasing that each month.
Im sure I share the same viewpoint as many of my peers in which I don't want to be a slave to a job for 40 or 50 years. I want to retire within the next 20, that would put my retirement age at 50. Where I think I differ from people in my age group is that I am always looking to the long term. Always saving, investing in my future. Gold and Silver, just like my residential investment properties and my 401k/IRA accounts, play a part in how I build my portfolio for my future.
So back to it, savings. Gold is for MY savings. Its is a tool that I can use to store my wealth for the long term and hedge against the unknown. Does it make up 100% of my investments/insurance? No. While I might not be as diversified as Baley claims that he is, I think I am diversified enough to earn competitive returns and save for my family's future.
Would love to keep this discussion going OPA or anyone else that wants to chime in. As I said in the gainsville thread, all information (whether good or bad) helps shape everyone's investment decisions and makes us all better investors in our futures.
You and I agree on most of your strategy in obtaining financial freedom, except for your "PM & Fiat money" comment on the bottom of each of your posts. BTW, I did not bring up the word, "liquidating" or even selling, ... You did. Please re read my original comment. Over the years, I've viewed gold or silver just like any other asset class and stood by the saying: Never place MOST of your eggs or even 50% in one basket. Having said that, gold or silver held for any other reason, other than a believe in a Mad Max SHTF scenario, should be threaded just like any other asset to be sold and purchased for a profit. ( I do not believe in so called paper gold or silver, but I do believe in the US dollar, which will be around long after I'm 6 feet under.)
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
I don't know when to exactly get in or out of an asset, just like everyone else, including the ones that can't admit it... but I do know that anyone who buys all in or sells all out, is someone to fade not to emulate.
All we need a poll that reflects the weekly investment sentiment of this board by all of the members. Some are more key than others We could probably all make a fortune by doing the opposite.
<< <i>All we need a poll that reflects the weekly investment sentiment of this board by all of the members. Some are more key than others We could probably all make a fortune by doing the opposite >>
I like that idea and hope someone can add one.
It would also be nice if it has a chart that tracks how right or wrong our sentiments are so we know if we should follow the group sentiments or be contrarians.
I used to enjoy watching Cramer with his "Are You Diversified" segment on his show.
I used to think like OPA and Baley, until I read an article one day in the WSJ about making significant gains vs. making mediocre returns by being sufficiently diversified among asset classes. The better diversified, the less chance of making significant gains in the portfolio but also, the less chance of incurring significant losses. Fair enough?
Knowing something about the different kinds of risk, I figured that risk can be managed over time in about the same way that it can be managed across asset classes. Instead of buying a bunch of different asset classes, I've bought metals over time - cost averaging somewhat consistently over the years.
I bought my first 500 oz of silver in 1974, but I didn't actually start deploying my strategy until 1998. Since 1998, I've bought metals with some consistency, allowing for the usual purchases & expenses of daily living. I rode the 12 year bull market that roadrunner talks about, although my buying tapered off a bit as metals were peaking. Strategically, I used some of that new cash since then to pay of the remaining mortgage but I've also continued to buy more metals since 2011.
I liquidated every paper asset we owned from 2006 to 2008 and I don't miss owning stocks or ETFs or mutual funds one single bit.
A couple of points that seem fairly obvious and always get ignored by the "traders" who talk about knowing "when to get in and out", is that 1) win, lose or draw - they are churning their accounts - they must pay current year taxes when there are gains in non-tax sheltered accounts, 2) they don't always win and 3) they are playing against the big boys who know how to milk the market with HFTs and 4) the risks have increased since 2008, not diminished. Not much different than Vegas, except that in Vegas they have to publish the odds, there is no such disclosure in the stock market. But at least the Fed has your back, right?
Let's talk about risk.
Like I said, I figured that my approach manages market risk at least as well as diversification across asset classes.
The risks that stock market and fiat bugs never seem to consider are some other risks - counterparty risk and default risk. Nobody remembers Madoff, Peregrine Financial and MF Global even though they were all recent. Those were all scam operations, but what about those other old-time favorites that weren't - Indy Bank, BoA, Citi, Lehman, GE Financial, Countrywide, Fannie, Freddie, AIG and WaMu?
That's all fixed now, right? Not!
The fact is that nothing got fixed and the leveraged risks have only become bigger. It all looks good when the Fed can pump enough money to kite the stock market. What about when it can't?
The fact is that a fully diversified stock portfolio isn't any more diversified than a fully diversified precious metals portfolio. The Fed has floated all stocks to this point. The rush to the exits isn't going to be pretty when retirees decide to cash in their retirement holdings and they look around to see that all the other baby boomers are trying to sell too or, God forbid - if the PPT can't hold back the next wave of HFT selling.
At least your losses will be well-diversified.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Some really great discussion to wake up to this morning, everyone is clearly different in terms of past, present, and future philosophies.
To address just one point for now before pouring second cup of coffee, totally agree that one can be too diversified!
And that concentrated positions within an overall asset allocation strategy can make all the difference between "average" and above (or below) average returns over time.
Comments
<< <i>Sure, a lot of money will be made. But only after 401K's are decimated. That will make ready the way for banks and hedge funds to run it the other way....just like in 2008. >>
Anyone who was planning to start withdrawing from a 401k within the next few years, should have reallocated their investments by now to minimize such volatility. Those not withdrawing for 15 years or more shouldn't be fazed by the media hoopla of day to day market swings.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sure, a lot of money will be made. But only after 401K's are decimated. That will make ready the way for banks and hedge funds to run it the other way....just like in 2008. >>
Anyone who was planning to start withdrawing from a 401k within the next few years, should have reallocated their investments by now to minimize such volatility. Those not withdrawing for 15 years or more shouldn't be fazed by the media hoopla of day to day market swings. >>
and that is the post of the day, IMO
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< What if 2008 was like 1977 and 2015 is like 1982?
I'm told there is a lot of money sloshing around out there and 3 billion people anxious to enter the 21st century. >>
Sounds like a good recipe for the Indian and Chinese stock markets....not necessarily the USA or Europe.
Do you know how many Indian and Chinese stocks trade on NYSE or Nasdaq?
Where the food gonna come from to feed these people?
And the machinery to build the infrastructure?
And the technology to manage it all?
And the medicines to keep them aluve?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
years earlier by buying 50 shares of a $45 stock.
<< <i>Gold is for savings. Fiat is for transactions. >>
I always chuckle when I read that. Savings? Sounds like a great way to loose your capital. In my book, it's for investing, just like stocks, you need to know when to get in & out.
I see no reason to hold physical Au, if you always have your finger on the trigger to sell.
<< <i>
<< <i>Gold is for savings. Fiat is for transactions. >>
I always chuckle when I read that. Savings? Sounds like a great way to loose your capital. In my book, it's for investing, just like stocks, you need to know when to get in & out. >>
Maybe at your age. Ever think that there is a different makeup than the demographic you represent?
Do you think its my only holding?
Do you think I need to liquidate my position in order to put food on the table or pay bills?
On a positive note, Im happy it entertains you
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
<< <i> Maybe at your age. Ever think that there is a different makeup than the demographic you represent? >>
My age? Most in my age group 70+, are not brainwashed by the PM hype that's been rampant on the internet and in some circles.
<< <i>Do you think I need to liquidate my position in order to put food on the table or pay bills? >>
Did anyone say anything about you liquidating? Future market and or personal events likely will dictate that for you.
<< <i>
<< <i> Maybe at your age. Ever think that there is a different makeup than the demographic you represent? >>
My age? Most in my age group 70+, are not brainwashed by the PM hype that's been rampant on the internet and in some circles.
<< <i>Do you think I need to liquidate my position in order to put food on the table or pay bills? >>
Did anyone say anything about you liquidating? Future market and or personal events likely will dictate that for you. >>
Oh c'mon OPA. You didnt use the word liquidating but you said "you need to know when to get in & out." How do you get out without selling your position then? Are you next going to tell me that there is a huge difference between the word selling and liquidating to deflect the real purpose of my post?
My point was that you have different criteria and time horizons than I (or anyone else) do. Yes, your age. No offense but odds are you do not have a 30-50 year investment time horizon. This might be where I differ from everyone else, I don't know. I have a very long term approach to my investments whether its stocks, real estate, pm's, coins or anything else that i would view as an investment (not speculation).
I would actually say that 80% or more of what I invest in, I will hold until my retirement (with two exceptions to that - if someone pays me well above what I believe the true value is for that particular investment or I can use a tax write off and can redeploy that capital into another investment). I am in the process of saving as much as I can off my and my wife's current salary as possible while raising a new born. I think our savings rate is nearing 55% now, and I working on ways of increasing that each month.
Im sure I share the same viewpoint as many of my peers in which I don't want to be a slave to a job for 40 or 50 years. I want to retire within the next 20, that would put my retirement age at 50. Where I think I differ from people in my age group is that I am always looking to the long term. Always saving, investing in my future. Gold and Silver, just like my residential investment properties and my 401k/IRA accounts, play a part in how I build my portfolio for my future.
So back to it, savings. Gold is for MY savings. Its is a tool that I can use to store my wealth for the long term and hedge against the unknown. Does it make up 100% of my investments/insurance? No. While I might not be as diversified as Baley claims that he is, I think I am diversified enough to earn competitive returns and save for my family's future.
Would love to keep this discussion going OPA or anyone else that wants to chime in. As I said in the gainsville thread, all information (whether good or bad) helps shape everyone's investment decisions and makes us all better investors in our futures.
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
BTW, I did not bring up the word, "liquidating" or even selling, ... You did. Please re read my original comment. Over the years, I've viewed gold or silver just like any other asset class and stood by the saying: Never place MOST of your eggs or even 50% in one basket. Having said that, gold or silver held for any other reason, other than a believe in a Mad Max SHTF scenario, should be threaded just like any other asset to be sold and purchased for a profit. ( I do not believe in so called paper gold or silver, but I do believe in the US dollar, which will be around long after I'm 6 feet under.)
but I do know that anyone who buys all in or sells all out, is someone to fade not to emulate.
All we need a poll that reflects the weekly investment sentiment of this board by all of the members. Some are more key than others
We could probably all make a fortune by doing the opposite.
<< <i>All we need a poll that reflects the weekly investment sentiment of this board by all of the members. Some are more key than others We could probably all make a fortune by doing the opposite >>
I like that idea and hope someone can add one.
It would also be nice if it has a chart that tracks how right or wrong our sentiments are so we know if we should follow the group sentiments or be contrarians.
I used to think like OPA and Baley, until I read an article one day in the WSJ about making significant gains vs. making mediocre returns by being sufficiently diversified among asset classes. The better diversified, the less chance of making significant gains in the portfolio but also, the less chance of incurring significant losses. Fair enough?
Knowing something about the different kinds of risk, I figured that risk can be managed over time in about the same way that it can be managed across asset classes. Instead of buying a bunch of different asset classes, I've bought metals over time - cost averaging somewhat consistently over the years.
I bought my first 500 oz of silver in 1974, but I didn't actually start deploying my strategy until 1998. Since 1998, I've bought metals with some consistency, allowing for the usual purchases & expenses of daily living. I rode the 12 year bull market that roadrunner talks about, although my buying tapered off a bit as metals were peaking. Strategically, I used some of that new cash since then to pay of the remaining mortgage but I've also continued to buy more metals since 2011.
I liquidated every paper asset we owned from 2006 to 2008 and I don't miss owning stocks or ETFs or mutual funds one single bit.
A couple of points that seem fairly obvious and always get ignored by the "traders" who talk about knowing "when to get in and out", is that 1) win, lose or draw - they are churning their accounts - they must pay current year taxes when there are gains in non-tax sheltered accounts, 2) they don't always win and 3) they are playing against the big boys who know how to milk the market with HFTs and 4) the risks have increased since 2008, not diminished. Not much different than Vegas, except that in Vegas they have to publish the odds, there is no such disclosure in the stock market. But at least the Fed has your back, right?
Let's talk about risk.
Like I said, I figured that my approach manages market risk at least as well as diversification across asset classes.
The risks that stock market and fiat bugs never seem to consider are some other risks - counterparty risk and default risk. Nobody remembers Madoff, Peregrine Financial and MF Global even though they were all recent. Those were all scam operations, but what about those other old-time favorites that weren't - Indy Bank, BoA, Citi, Lehman, GE Financial, Countrywide, Fannie, Freddie, AIG and WaMu?
That's all fixed now, right? Not!
The fact is that nothing got fixed and the leveraged risks have only become bigger. It all looks good when the Fed can pump enough money to kite the stock market. What about when it can't?
The fact is that a fully diversified stock portfolio isn't any more diversified than a fully diversified precious metals portfolio. The Fed has floated all stocks to this point. The rush to the exits isn't going to be pretty when retirees decide to cash in their retirement holdings and they look around to see that all the other baby boomers are trying to sell too or, God forbid - if the PPT can't hold back the next wave of HFT selling.
At least your losses will be well-diversified.
I knew it would happen.
To address just one point for now before pouring second cup of coffee, totally agree that one can be too diversified!
And that concentrated positions within an overall asset allocation strategy can make all the difference between "average" and above (or below) average returns over time.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry