When would you donate a unique coin to a museum?
Zoins
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I was just reading a CoinWorld article on the Smithsonian National Numismatic Collection which mentions the Stack family has donated a number of coins including the unique 1794 Flowing Hair dollar struck in copper to the Smithsonian. In addition to the Smithsonian, many have made donations to the ANA museum and other museums. What would influence your decision to donate or not to donate a particular piece to a museum?
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On a side note, when I had a private tour of the Smithsonians vault last summer, that 1794 copper dollar was THE highlight. I spent more time with that coin in my hand in awe than I did with any of the other amazing coins.
<< <i>For tax write off
That's what I was thinking when I get the thread title.
Before a soon-to-be ex spouse gets any piece of it.
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Museums often lock items away were no one, except the staff or the privileged few ever get to see them. Many museums demand that bequests are accompanied by large cash grants so that the institution can display the item.
In this case I begrudge the Smithsonian this gift. They have many, many coins, and collectors seldom get to see them. The Smithsonian does not need this coin. It is better that it is in private hands.
I would like to be able to use pictures of the coins the Smithsonian has in presentations to clubs and school groups, but that is very hard to do because of copyright laws. The Heritage Auction House is far more co-operative in that regard than the Smithsonian.
The Smithsonian broke its word they said that the funds from the sale of the 1996 Smithsonian commemorative coins. They said that they would use at least some of the proceeds to fund a coin display. Instead they locked up the coins except for a very small exhibit.
As another poster stated, this is just a tax deduction.
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Look at what Bob Simpson is doing with his great rarities! He is taking them out to display them for thousands! Could you imagine if he donated all of that stuff to a museum? No one would ever see it! Kudos to him and others that have done similar things.
Another thing that irks me is when museums lock things away AND they have duplicates!!! They could at least sell off their duplicates in order to raise funds and buy other things. Allow the duplicates to be sold so others can enjoy them!
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<< <i>If I had a coin of that status, I'd probably be more interested in a long term load with the terms that if it was taken off exhibit, except for temporary exhibit maintenance, the coin be returned to me or my heirs. If the coin isn't going to be shared, I'd want it available to collectors elsewhere. >>
This.
<< <i>Look at what Bob Simpson is doing with his great rarities! He is taking them out to display them for thousands! Could you imagine if he donated all of that stuff to a museum? No one would ever see it! Kudos to him and others that have done similar things. >>
Who manages this for him? Is this something he or someone in his employ does, or is this something that some person or organization does for him?
<< <i>
<< <i>Look at what Bob Simpson is doing with his great rarities! He is taking them out to display them for thousands! Could you imagine if he donated all of that stuff to a museum? No one would ever see it! Kudos to him and others that have done similar things. >>
Who manages this for him? Is this something he or someone in his employ does, or is this something that some person or organization does for him? >>
LINKY!
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<< <i>On a side note, when I had a private tour of the Smithsonians vault last summer, that 1794 copper dollar was THE highlight. I spent more time with that coin in my hand in awe than I did with any of the other amazing coins. >>
That sounds like a great tour. How does one get a private tour of the vault?
<< <i>Never.
Museums often lock items away were no one, except the staff or the privileged few ever get to see them. Many museums demand that bequests are accompanied by large cash grants so that the institution can display the item.
In this case I begrudge the Smithsonian this gift. They have many, many coins, and collectors seldom get to see them. The Smithsonian does not need this coin. It is better that it is in private hands.
I would like to be able to use pictures of the coins the Smithsonian has in presentations to clubs and school groups, but that is very hard to do because of copyright laws. The Heritage Auction House is far more co-operative in that regard than the Smithsonian.
The Smithsonian broke its word they said that the funds from the sale of the 1996 Smithsonian commemorative coins. They said that they would use at least some of the proceeds to fund a coin display. Instead they locked up the coins except for a very small exhibit.
As another poster stated, this is just a tax deduction. >>
Playing devil's advocate for a moment.
Who would see the coins if they were locked in Mr. Eureka's vault, or TDN's vault, or my vault? At least in a museum it is theoretically possible for people to see them.
Nevertheless, I do agree with your position and personally would never donate any of my coins to a museum despite having a few worthy of a museum.
And I would NEVER even consider the ANA due to all the political nonsense and mismanagement despite being a life member of that organization.
A related question would be whether museums can and / or should periodically sell holdings they don't need or display?
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number one reason is i'm not fat in life...a piece worthy like this would be a life changer for my kids and i
i'd sell it hopefully for strong money
i've also heard of museums selling items
it was so sad to see the william harrah museum sell most of the motorcycles for funding towards his car collection
i had made a trip to reno from so cal way back when to see one of the worlds finest preserved henderson ace motorcycles
i was so mad when they informed they sold it
mr.william harrah probably would of been pissed too that some knucklehead sold his henderson ace
needless to say
i just don't trust um no more
if i had $$$ in life
the only way they would have it for display was on loan under written contract that it is to be returned without issue by me or my heirs
that it is not to be considered museum property under any circumstances
I am going to open myself a museum!
<< <i>I am going to open myself a museum! >>
...and that you would accepting any and all "donations"?
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<< <i>One point about private collections vs. museums is that while coins are in private collections, they can come up for sale occasionally, while pieces in museums are typically permanently off the market.
A related question would be whether museums can and / or should periodically sell holdings they don't need or display? >>
This is done on a regular basis by most museums. However, any money raised from the sale of such items must be used to purchase additional items for the collection. Museums that sell parts of their collection to cover operating expenses are looked down upon by the museum community.
When I remind her how poor an idea that is, she then says "maybe I'll give them to a museum"
I'm not sure which idea is worse!
I think museums are typically poorly equipped to handle the display of rare coins. Coins are too small, they have two sides, they need a certain lighting, they look better with a (space consuming) table display rather than a wall display. Slabs on coins look silly in a museum. Non-collectors also don't have great interest in seeing multiples (i.e. different dates) of the same coin. A 1928 double eagle is the same to most people as a 1933. Rare and valuable coins don't mean that much to people, especially in a museum where everything around them is rare and priceless. A Roman Tiberius denarius (thought to be the coin from the parable "Render unto Caesar..") which is worth a few hundred dollars in decent condition is more exciting to most people than an 1804 dollar or 1913 Liberty nickel. A gold coin from ancient Greece is probably more exciting than an 1822 half eagle to non-collectors.
I don't mind museums having coin collections but I think their coins should be photographed and should be accessible to numismatic researchers and collectors.
And by the way, other forms of artwork and history are just as useless in institutional collections as coins... think about how many sketches, paintings, sculptures, ceramics, fossils, documents, manuscripts, etc are sitting in boxes in museums and will never see the light of day.
Secondly, once in an institution they are forever off the market, so another collector will likely never enjoy them again.
Thirdly, being poorly equipped and not properly displaying such an item is a GROSS disservice to BOTH the public AND to the benefactor.
I vote NOT EVER!!
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My father was able to reacquire (in exchange for other historical items) my grandfather's WWII Japanese sword. He brought it back from the war and was killed in an accident shortly thereafter. My grandmother had given it to a dusty, small-town museum that did not appreciate it or even have it attributed correctly. Such a thing means an awful lot to the family but almost nothing to the museum or its patrons. My feelings toward museums come mostly from that experience.
If, however, I owned a unique, nationally significant item, I might consider the Smithsonian, if there was some expectation that it could be enjoyed by all.
<< <i>I am going to open myself a museum! >>
I wonder if there are any significant advantages to having one's collection in one's own non-profit museum?
<< <i>Old airplanes should be flown, old cars should be driven, old guns should be fired, and exceptional coins should be enjoyed. >>
The last one doesn't quite fit... otherwise, it would be "old coins should be spent". It is interesting that in those first three areas, items continue to be used for their original purpose, while the advice for coins is generally not to handle them directly for the exceptional ones. It seems like old coins would be more similar to old currency, sports cards, comics, stamps, etc.
<< <i>
<< <i>Old airplanes should be flown, old cars should be driven, old guns should be fired, and exceptional coins should be enjoyed. >>
The last one doesn't quite fit... otherwise, it would be "old coins should be spent". It is interesting that in those first three areas, items continue to be used for their original purpose, while the advice for coins is generally not to handle them directly for the exceptional ones. It seems like old coins would be more similar to old currency, sports cards, comics, stamps, etc. >>
I use my "old" (1940s-1990s) stamps all the time.
Unfortunately, they're not good for much else.
NO!
I had the pleasure of ownership, so should someone else.
Why remove it forever from the possibility of ownership?
BHNC #203
<< <i>On a side note, when I had a private tour of the Smithsonians vault last summer, that 1794 copper dollar was THE highlight. I spent more time with that coin in my hand in awe than I did with any of the other amazing coins. >>
The coin is amazing and its nice to have a good picture of it, instead of my crummy iPhone picture.
I think the only muesum I would donate to would be the ANA, if they needed the item for some reason. Even then I would probably just loan it, like I believe Monaco is doing the the Brasher.
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<< <i>Never. Museums are poor repositories for rare coins. They usually just end up sitting in vaults for decades on end. >>
Agree. Also, the custodians are usually not experienced coin collectors or numismatists so the coins may be mishandled such as scrubbing the tarnish off an old coin to make it shiny again.
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<< <i>I don't quite get the tax deduction argument. Wouldn't a collector be better off selling the coin, paying the taxes and keeping what's left? >>
I had the same thought. This would make the most sense unless your tax rate was greater than 100%.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>When I awakened sooner than expected from stasis and found the ship had arrived at Centarus earlier than expected and that the fuel tanks for the return trip had been destroyed in an unexpected magnetic anomoly upon arrival on the outskirts of the system. With a landing on an Earthlike world found by Kepler in the previous century (upon system arrival sensascan indicates large aggressive carnivore surface creatures, gravity .92 Earth, slightly thicker atmosphere with large flying insects, tropical rainforest and mountainous areas) to compute a landing vector to the LZ (flat relatively cleared area inside an anchient crater which should be defensible)while navigating around the large Jovian world it orbits and 200 colonists survival to worry about. I would contact my representative on Earth via subspace radio to donate the coin as there is no coin market where I am going and inform the company the ship they had a tremendous investment in would not be returning to the Sol System and the invasion force be dispatched immediately. I would do this as soon as I enjoyed a shot of Crown Royal to maintain composure from a panic attack.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I visited a small museum near my residence that has a few Roman coins on display, they were in a
group of items that belonged to a local resident 100 years ago.
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