"+" plus grade and stickers
jcping
Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
Both CAC and QA claimed that their stickers are irrelevant to the "+" plus in grade. Do you know any TPG slab with plus grade and fail to get a sticker?
If so, when CAC and/or QA considers the coin is C-level of the grade and TPG gave a "+", what's wrong in the picture?
Another question, does anyone have any idea the percentage of coins with + grade but can't get a bean.
Of course, if the percentage is zero, then why waste money to bean any coin with + grade
If so, when CAC and/or QA considers the coin is C-level of the grade and TPG gave a "+", what's wrong in the picture?
Another question, does anyone have any idea the percentage of coins with + grade but can't get a bean.
Of course, if the percentage is zero, then why waste money to bean any coin with + grade
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<< <i>Both CAC and QA claimed that their stickers are irrelevant to the "+" plus in grade. Do you know any TPG slab with plus grade and fail to get a sticker?
If so, when CAC and/or QA considers the coin is C-level of the grade and TPG gave a "+", what's wrong in the picture? >>
From my understanding and experience, failing to get a sticker does not necessarily mean the coin is overgraded or C-level. A coin could be under graded and still fail to sticker due to unoriginality, a silent net-grade for a problem, or a look that CAC does not like.
"A", "B", and "C" vary somewhat from my own set of preferences "D", but I'm not dumb enough to think I'm smarter, or that anyone else should see it the way I do. We humans are programmed to appreciate slightly different things.
<< <i>From my understanding and experience, failing to get a sticker does not necessarily mean the coin is overgraded or C-level. A coin could be under graded and still fail to sticker due to unoriginality, a silent net-grade for a problem, or a look that CAC does not like. >>
That's the polite way to say it. But the bottom line that the C level coins are somewhat shunned unless they are generic common dates (common Morgans, commems, generic gold, etc.). CAC can say it that way but my take on it as that they don't want the coin, therefore it's not quite the grade advertised. In my mind, a low end coin in other than generics is not worth anything near posted sheet wholesale or retail levels, and for the most part sells for closer to next grade down money. I call that over-graded. There is also a significant quality difference between the C level coins of each TPG. That muddies things up even more. CAC does not like a "low-end" look...or another way of saying they'd like to see grading standards back to what they were somewhere in the 1998-2003 era. At least that's my take on it.
Now the coin resides in an ngc ms67+ holder and is sporting a green bean....
<< <i>Today at the Baltimore show I saw a peace dollar that i had about 4 months ago in an ngc ms67 holder that had some nice color on it. I had submitted it to CAC and it did not sticker.
Now the coin resides in an ngc ms67+ holder and is sporting a green bean.... >>
This is one of my main points. If CAC automatically gives stickers to all "+" graded coins, then why bother to bean them
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<< <i>Today at the Baltimore show I saw a peace dollar that i had about 4 months ago in an ngc ms67 holder that had some nice color on it. I had submitted it to CAC and it did not sticker.
Now the coin resides in an ngc ms67+ holder and is sporting a green bean.... >>
I would like to see the coin. Do you have a nice image? Also, so much for selling every coin that did not sticker.
Finally, it is about impossible to get a 67+ Peace dollar so that was quite the accomplishment.
<< <i>I have "plus" PCGS coins that did not sticker. Just today 1 came back. >>
Yes, I got one last week from CAC no bean...PCGS MS66+
<< <i>Today at the Baltimore show I saw a peace dollar that i had about 4 months ago in an ngc ms67 holder that had some nice color on it. I had submitted it to CAC and it did not sticker.
Now the coin resides in an ngc ms67+ holder and is sporting a green bean.... >>
You were not worthy.
I recall a lengthy discussion we had here a couple years back on an NGC MS66+ $20 Saint being offered by Larry Shepard. The coin was not stickered. And the ask price was $800 less than what a stickered common date MS66 Saint could be wholesaled for....and hundreds more than a generic MS66. It would have been worth the $10-$20 fee to send the coin to CAC and get another $800 in your pocket. I suspect it was attempted. CAC is very fussy on the color and surfaces of gold. The + sign means nothing to them if they don't otherwise like the coin as solid for the grade in all respects. All it takes is a single spot that doesn't look right to them, or a small dull area on a proof coin's surface, or the faintest hint of QT/AT....and no sticker.
From my experience and what others have said, CAC has a certain look they like, but more importantly its a coin that they have a market for and would be willing to buy at said price and could sell it into the market.
<< <i>Today at the Baltimore show I saw a peace dollar that i had about 4 months ago in an ngc ms67 holder that had some nice color on it. I had submitted it to CAC and it did not sticker.
Now the coin resides in an ngc ms67+ holder and is sporting a green bean.... >>
Perhaps it is not truly the same coin as it was four months ago?
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<< <i>From my experience and what others have said, CAC has a certain look they like,. >>
PCGS seems to be more concerned with luster than contact marks... CAC IMHO is obsessed with contact marks and less fussy about luster.
And of course if there is anything on the coin that even remotely resembles PVC (even if it is not!) they will reject it.
<< <i>
<< <i>From my experience and what others have said, CAC has a certain look they like,. >>
PCGS seems to be more concerned with luster than contact marks... CAC IMHO is obsessed with contact marks and less fussy about luster.
And of course if there is anything on the coin that even remotely resembles PVC (even if it is not!) they will reject it. >>
Interesting, I agree that TPG's are putting more emphsis on luster recently (perhaps because of CAC). If memory serves correct I recall JA saying that luster is more imprtant than most collectors realize a year or so ago, luster is a big part of the "look" that CAC likes I think.
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<< From my experience and what others have said, CAC has a certain look they like,. >>
> PCGS seems to be more concerned with luster than contact marks... CAC IMHO is obsessed with contact marks and less fussy about luster.
Well said and this perfectly matches with my experience
<< <i>Both CAC and QA claimed that their stickers are irrelevant to the "+" plus in grade. Do you know any TPG slab with plus grade and fail to get a sticker?
If so, when CAC and/or QA considers the coin is C-level of the grade and TPG gave a "+", what's wrong in the picture?
Another question, does anyone have any idea the percentage of coins with + grade but can't get a bean.
Of course, if the percentage is zero, then why waste money to bean any coin with + grade
I've personally had a plus "+" coin or two not sticker. So it is definitely a possibility. As for why they don't sticker, CAC is one company's opinion and they don't have to sticker a coin simply because they don't want to buy the coin sight unseen and have to represent it.
Percentages are impossible because CAC doesn't publish failures or failure rates.
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<< <i>I have "plus" PCGS coins that did not sticker. Just today 1 came back. >>
In a case like this, is CAC saying that the coin is not a "+" ?
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<< <i>Today at the Baltimore show I saw a peace dollar that i had about 4 months ago in an ngc ms67 holder that had some nice color on it. I had submitted it to CAC and it did not sticker.
Now the coin resides in an ngc ms67+ holder and is sporting a green bean.... >>
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
From my personal experience of submitting, this is 99% of the reason why coins sticker or don't sticker, and the color of the sticker (green or gold).
Grade, A, B, C, yada yada from my personal experience is just a red herring (marketing filler for a website and interviews to give some perception of process or science).
My only Plus coin without the bean is a rather expensive Capped Bust Half Dollar. I bought it in a major auction when in a NGC 62 holder. CAC refused to give it the sticker. I crossed it to PCGS 58+. Again, CAC refused to give it the sticker. I am not happy with this CAC result.
On any given day a grader or sticker giver can have a different opinion of a coin and where it falls in the grade range. Some people like toned coins and can be liberal on these pieces when people who prefer Gem BU white coins with super luster will look down on toned coins.
I'll try to post a pic later. I absolutely LOVE the coin, and would sticker the coin everyday at QA Check. The color is amazing and I paid a huge premium for the coin. Not sure with CAC did not like the coin.
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Nevertheless, majority (I estimate 80% or higher) of "+" coins will get a bean if owners send them in.
Just my observations
<< <i>Just received an Ike back from CAC...65+ no sticker. Why did I send the coin to CAC if we sticker them....I own the coin, and to keep a conflict of interest from occurring, would rather have CAC sticker than QA Check. >>
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I am under the understanding that CAC does not look at/sticker coins post 1958.
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Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.