Gold down....Saints up.

topstuf

I started buying these things again lately.
With gold dropping substantially, the wholesale PCGS 64 saints are up about $100.

I still think this is the way for "stackers."

While I consider present premium very modest. Not LOW like it was 2 weeks ago, I don't see any of em coming IN to coin shops.

I do know one thing. Any ...rise.... (hahahaha) in gold will take these TODAMOON!

Sittin an waitin to see if they settle down. Glad to have got the 20 we got a cuppla weeks ago.

Still want more.

topstuf

I'm sensing extreme disinterest in this topic.
I hope everyone quits runnin the price up.

PerryHall

Buying common date slabbed MS63 or 64 Saints is an excellent way of buying gold as bullion. Not sure if it's worth the added expense of searching out CAC approved Saints though. In any event I'd choose attractive for the grade examples with minimum marks and no copper spots.

guitarwes

I saw some nice slider AU/Unc Saints and Libs at a semi-local coin shop last week for $20-30 over spot.

rawteam1

<< <i>I saw some nice slider AU/Unc Saints and Libs at a semi-local coin shop last week for $20-30 over spot. >>


That's a decent buy, sure as heck better than paying over $400 per coin extra for excess plastic...

roadrunner

<< <i>I'm sensing extreme disinterest in this topic.
I hope everyone quits runnin the price up. >>



Good observation Topstuf. I hadn't even noticed this 10% or so move in generic choice/gem gold over the past few month(s). I had noticed Heritage was recently putting out buy orders for generic slabbed gold. I just assumed it was bottom fishing. Now that I check the prices they just might have some customers taking positions....could even be other dealers. Prices are up for many denominations, not just $20's. I see one of my favorites in MS63 and MS64 $10 Indians and Libs are both up approx $100 each in those grades. The 63 $10 Indians had gotten as low as the $800's. Now at $1050.

MS 64 Saints are now at a 34% premium to spot. The 63's at +21%. They were down around 15-25% last I looked. And at one time in the past 5-6 years the premiums on the 63's had dropped to as low as +5% over spot. MS65 Saints have moved up approx 10% as well....from $1700 to $1850.

To those that think a 34% premium to spot is obscene for a MS64 Saint, compare that against a MS64 Morgan (+470%), or even an XF 1958 wheat cent (+80% over melt). The highest premiums on MS64 Saints occurred in Nov 2009 when gold was at $1225/oz.....they were selling for 80-100% premiums to spot ($2200-$2400). The problem with the AU/scuffy BU Saints is that they are really not promotable. When/if promotions come back into generic gold it will be the slabbed MS63-64-65 coins seeing the brunt of it....not circs. An MS64 Saint could return to a 50-75% premium again....the AU Saint will probably always stay within 5-20% of spot (ie limited upside...along with the benefit of limited downside other than price of gold). I'm not surprised that 63-65 slabbed Saints have not been showing up in coin shops. Who wants to sell them at 6 year lows? They've had 6 years to bail out of them if that's what they wanted. Most generic gold peaked back in April/May 2006 - now at 9 year lows. That was the beginning of the peak for the rare coin market (April 2006 - August 2008)....and also the peak range for stocks, classic cars, and many other collectibles.

rawteam1

Thing is, the "promotable" makes the bullion spot look like an angel...

ranshdow

To confirm, generic PCGS MS63 Saints are going for $1400 at the moment?

roadrunner

<< <i>To confirm, generic PCGS MS63 Saints are going for $1400 at the moment? >>



$1400 would seem like high retail. I would hope you could find them for around $1350. The bigger dealers are probably paying $1285-$1295 each. They typically work around a 5% spread.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>To confirm, generic PCGS MS63 Saints are going for $1400 at the moment? >>



$1400 would seem like high retail. I would hope you could find them for around $1350. The bigger dealers are probably paying $1285-$1295 each. They typically work around a 5% spread. >>



APMEX was $1380 for 10 or more.

roadrunner

<< <i>APMEX was $1380 for 10 or more. >>



APMEX is another level of the retail price. Create a gold trading account at Heritage, Rarcoa, etc. and you'll get them for less. There are some smaller gold wholesalers out there (many are PNG dealers) who would also be happy to work for you at under APMEX prices. Or have your local dealer work the transaction for you. A Legacy type account should work too. Bought and sold a lot of generic gold over the past 13 years looking for the best prices I could find. Never did work a deal with APMEX, TULVING, or the other bigger retailers.

Jinx86

Ive had only one customer looking for Saints in the shop as of lately and it was for only better date material. No interest in the generic 61-64 common dates. I have sold more 20 Libs than normal. Both raw and holdered.

bidask

I'd rather see saints down and gold up! 😀

derryb

I've always considered saints to be an overpriced play on bullion. You can usually have a gold eagle for the same money (or less) and it's a full ounce of gold unlike the .9675 oz. in $20 gold. When buyers look at the premium on the $20 gold they need to factor in it's only .9675 oz. of gold they are buying.

Gold coin specifications

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>I've always considered saints to be an overpriced play on bullion. You can usually have a gold eagle for the same money (or less) and it's a full ounce of gold unlike the .9675 oz. in $20 gold. When buyers look at the premium on the $20 gold they need to factor in it's only .9675 oz. of gold they are buying.

Gold coin specifications >>



Agree, but to some folks Saints have more of a wow factor than GAEs. GAEs are boring but efficient.

derryb

<< <i>

<< <i>I've always considered saints to be an overpriced play on bullion. You can usually have a gold eagle for the same money (or less) and it's a full ounce of gold unlike the .9675 oz. in $20 gold. When buyers look at the premium on the $20 gold they need to factor in it's only .9675 oz. of gold they are buying.

Gold coin specifications >>



Agree, but to some folks Saints have more of a wow factor than GAEs. GAEs are boring but efficient. >>


Saints are much more to behold but they belong in collections, not in stacks. First Saint I ever held in my hands I kept for a long time. They are majestic. But, like you said not the most efficient way to stack gold.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>APMEX was $1380 for 10 or more. >>



APMEX is another level of the retail price. Create a gold trading account at Heritage, Rarcoa, etc. and you'll get them for less. There are some smaller gold wholesalers out there (many are PNG dealers) who would also be happy to work for you at under APMEX prices. Or have your local dealer work the transaction for you. A Legacy type account should work too. Bought and sold a lot of generic gold over the past 13 years looking for the best prices I could find. Never did work a deal with APMEX, TULVING, or the other bigger retailers. >>



That was just a FYI post. I'm not looking to buy any.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I've always considered saints to be an overpriced play on bullion. You can usually have a gold eagle for the same money (or less) and it's a full ounce of gold unlike the .9675 oz. in $20 gold. When buyers look at the premium on the $20 gold they need to factor in it's only .9675 oz. of gold they are buying.

Gold coin specifications >>



Agree, but to some folks Saints have more of a wow factor than GAEs. GAEs are boring but efficient. >>


Saints are much more to behold but they belong in collections, not in stacks. First Saint I ever held in my hands I kept for a long time. They are majestic. But, like you said not the most efficient way to stack gold. >>



AGEs are the most efficient AND trustworthy. Buffalos are up there too, but they could benefit from a security tag/privy mark like the CMLs have. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to add one to the AGEs too.

ricko

While I have a few Saints, they are for my collection, AGE's for stacking... Cheers, RickO

TwoSides2aCoin

Gold in any form at the right price will still melt at the same temperature. I like to buy low and hold…. And if it never goes up, the Saint's are still up.
Yes, I'm hated for my puns. Hate me all who will. Gold is just another commodity in the scope of the "investor" and speculator.

Coins , on the other hand…. they're made for collecting if they're not being spent. The government would just as soon have gotten all of them in 1933, but for a few collectors who had a say.

topstuf

I like the coins for the fact that I SERIOUSLY doubt any controls would EVER be placed on them (other than tax crap) because messing with coins would hit even the uninformed dumb citizens who have NO economic interest.

We're here for your COIN COLLECTION !!!

Nope, don't think that'll happen.

Incidentally, these damn things are NOT backing off with the dropping gold.
So I wait patiently.

rawteam1

Interesting perception of " the moment" ...
as the reality is, they are worth way less than they were when spot gold was considerably higher...
And only promotion brings value, the ultimate way to invest of course...

topstuf

<< <i>Interesting perception of " the moment" ...
as the reality is, they are worth way less than they were when spot gold was considerably higher...
And only promotion brings value, the ultimate way to invest of course... >>



As lower spot price brings in some specs, the premium stuff will languish.
Turn the situation around to where gold gets some publicity again and coins will outpace the bullion after a short while.

It's a normal cycle and I just think it will set itself up for a run again.

Or not.

Don't much care. With the size of my stack, it's a drop in the bucket but I did well last time with some quantity purchases of US coins.

I do know that I am not seeing any US gold in dealer shops at present.
It's all going to the heirs anyhow. Let them sort it all out.

Cakes

top,

I like the strategy.

Now if I could only get my hands on some ungraded or low grade 2009 UHR's remotely near spot and I would be happy.

Timbuk3

Graded numismatic gold is the way
to go !!! :-)

rawteam1

<< <i>Graded numismatic gold is the way
to go if you want to go belly up !!! :-) >>


There fixed it...