Likely no more than a dozen survivors today, and 4 of them are SSCA coins. This might be the most original of them all, but as of now it is the ONLY example with CAC approval. Therefore, the lowest graded coin in my collection happens to be my only top pop .
This is the only CAC approved Mint State 1870-CC Seated Dollar. Anyone who knows the series, knows how difficult the four Carson City coins are in this set. This is the first of the four in the early 70's.
The Milas 1865. There might be one or two other uncirculated out there. This is the only one that is stickered. Only
35-40 exist and most of those are messed-with. Fairmont only added one - a nice AU53.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Is there an accepted definition of what makes a coin a Key Date?
Or is the term Key Date similar to the term Rare Coin (which is used to mass market the sale of coins that exist in large numbers and are always available in hours, minutes and even seconds)?
Depending on the answer to my first question I may or may not have a Key Date in my collection.
I always thought that key dates or trophy coins was kind of a subjective thing. I'm sure there's a list out there somewhere. One man's key dates or trophy coins, might be another man's pocket change. We all know the 55DDO, S-VDB, 16-D, 3-Leg Buff come to mind from when we were kids. It seems every series have those handful of very difficult coins to acquire.
After years of looking through this forum, it became evident to me right away that there are 3 or 4 levels of collectors here. Experts or key player collectors, (maybe dealers)/some type of mid level collector/and the novice collector.
When I read through threads here, I automatically put myself in a specific category or level of collector compared to all you guys. This always changes my level of key date coins. My posted coin pictures, usually brings the grade average of that thread down 3 or 4 grades, sorry!
What's my point here?.....I don't know, I don't think I have a point.
This is probably a topic for another thread. Thanks for listening!...I feel better now.
The coin cost me a little over 2100$ US. To me that is a LOT of money to some is daily pocket change. I will never probably buy another coin of this value. I just happened to buy some gold at the right time and sold at the right time otherwise this purchase would not have happened. I keep such coins in my bank vault at all times. I get to enjoy the images and that is enough for me. I am not rich but have my home (still have over 15 years to finish paying it off) and pay for that monthly but I am grateful for what I do have that is key in life. I have my pet and live in a peaceful area with public transportation (I can't afford to own a car).
Most coins I buy are 50$ to 250$ US and a few times over 250$ US but extremely rarely over 1000$ US. I own 2 trophy coins now and there really is nothing else I need that I collect that I would consider a trophy coin. Maybe one but that coin has never sold and is unique so the chances I will own that coin are almost nil.
I always thought that key dates or trophy coins was kind of a subjective thing. I'm sure there's a list out there somewhere. One man's key dates or trophy coins, might be another man's pocket change. We all know the 55DDO, S-VDB, 16-D, 3-Leg Buff come to mind from when we were kids. It seems every series have those handful of very difficult coins to acquire.
After years of looking through this forum, it became evident to me right away that there are 3 or 4 levels of collectors here. Experts or key player collectors, (maybe dealers)/some type of mid level collector/and the novice collector.
When I read through threads here, I automatically put myself in a specific category or level of collector compared to all you guys. This always changes my level of key date coins. My posted coin pictures, usually brings the grade average of that thread down 3 or 4 grades, sorry!
What's my point here?.....I don't know, I don't think I have a point.
This is probably a topic for another thread. Thanks for listening!...I feel better now.
The coin cost me a little over 2100$ US. To me that is a LOT of money to some is daily pocket change. I will never probably buy another coin of this value. I just happened to buy some gold at the right time and sold at the right time otherwise this purchase would not have happened. I keep such coins in my bank vault at all times. I get to enjoy the images and that is enough for me. I am not rich but have my home (still have over 15 years to finish paying it off) and pay for that monthly but I am grateful for what I do have that is key in life. I have my pet and live in a peaceful area with public transportation (I can't afford to own a car).
Most coins I buy are 50$ to 250$ US and a few times over 250$ US but extremely rarely over 1000$ US. I own 2 trophy coins now and there really is nothing else I need that I collect that I would consider a trophy coin. Maybe one but that coin has never sold and is unique so the chances I will own that coin are almost nil.
Just out of curiosity, what is your other trophy coin
I always thought that key dates or trophy coins was kind of a subjective thing. I'm sure there's a list out there somewhere. One man's key dates or trophy coins, might be another man's pocket change. We all know the 55DDO, S-VDB, 16-D, 3-Leg Buff come to mind from when we were kids. It seems every series have those handful of very difficult coins to acquire.
After years of looking through this forum, it became evident to me right away that there are 3 or 4 levels of collectors here. Experts or key player collectors, (maybe dealers)/some type of mid level collector/and the novice collector.
When I read through threads here, I automatically put myself in a specific category or level of collector compared to all you guys. This always changes my level of key date coins. My posted coin pictures, usually brings the grade average of that thread down 3 or 4 grades, sorry!
What's my point here?.....I don't know, I don't think I have a point.
This is probably a topic for another thread. Thanks for listening!...I feel better now.
The coin cost me a little over 2100$ US. To me that is a LOT of money to some is daily pocket change. I will never probably buy another coin of this value. I just happened to buy some gold at the right time and sold at the right time otherwise this purchase would not have happened. I keep such coins in my bank vault at all times. I get to enjoy the images and that is enough for me. I am not rich but have my home (still have over 15 years to finish paying it off) and pay for that monthly but I am grateful for what I do have that is key in life. I have my pet and live in a peaceful area with public transportation (I can't afford to own a car).
Most coins I buy are 50$ to 250$ US and a few times over 250$ US but extremely rarely over 1000$ US. I own 2 trophy coins now and there really is nothing else I need that I collect that I would consider a trophy coin. Maybe one but that coin has never sold and is unique so the chances I will own that coin are almost nil.
I always thought that key dates or trophy coins was kind of a subjective thing. I'm sure there's a list out there somewhere. One man's key dates or trophy coins, might be another man's pocket change. We all know the 55DDO, S-VDB, 16-D, 3-Leg Buff come to mind from when we were kids. It seems every series have those handful of very difficult coins to acquire.
After years of looking through this forum, it became evident to me right away that there are 3 or 4 levels of collectors here. Experts or key player collectors, (maybe dealers)/some type of mid level collector/and the novice collector.
When I read through threads here, I automatically put myself in a specific category or level of collector compared to all you guys. This always changes my level of key date coins. My posted coin pictures, usually brings the grade average of that thread down 3 or 4 grades, sorry!
What's my point here?.....I don't know, I don't think I have a point.
This is probably a topic for another thread. Thanks for listening!...I feel better now.
The coin cost me a little over 2100$ US. To me that is a LOT of money to some is daily pocket change. I will never probably buy another coin of this value. I just happened to buy some gold at the right time and sold at the right time otherwise this purchase would not have happened. I keep such coins in my bank vault at all times. I get to enjoy the images and that is enough for me. I am not rich but have my home (still have over 15 years to finish paying it off) and pay for that monthly but I am grateful for what I do have that is key in life. I have my pet and live in a peaceful area with public transportation (I can't afford to own a car).
Most coins I buy are 50$ to 250$ US and a few times over 250$ US but extremely rarely over 1000$ US. I own 2 trophy coins now and there really is nothing else I need that I collect that I would consider a trophy coin. Maybe one but that coin has never sold and is unique so the chances I will own that coin are almost nil.
Just out of curiosity, what is your other trophy coin
This one I call a trophy but it is not because of its value. My 1752 Peru 1 real mintage of 424 (Yonaka reports 4 known but my estimate is that 10-20 still exist). That coin cost me 275$ but is very difficult to find for sale in any grades. That series has mintage's of 50 000+ except for the unique 1751 that I will never own.
My 1752 is holed but that is OK. I could not afford to buy one with such detail if it was not. Sorry I have no images of the coin otherwise I would share it.
@SanctionII said:
Is there an accepted definition of what makes a coin a Key Date?
Or is the term Key Date similar to the term Rare Coin (which is used to mass market the sale of coins that exist in large numbers and are always available in hours, minutes and even seconds)?
Depending on the answer to my first question I may or may not have a Key Date in my collection.
A key date is as perceived by the collector, not the market. While the market will describe certain coins as rare, like a 1933 St. Gaudens $20, there is only one and from a collectors standpoint it is not obtainable and is beyond the description of a "key date". A key date in my IHC proof collection is the 1877 which is obtainable. A suitable 1864-L is only a key date in a variety collection. Although dealers often refer to "key dates" they are almost never rare dates.
Please post your key date coins......we are all interested on this forum.
@SanctionII said:
Is there an accepted definition of what makes a coin a Key Date?
Or is the term Key Date similar to the term Rare Coin (which is used to mass market the sale of coins that exist in large numbers and are always available in hours, minutes and even seconds)?
Depending on the answer to my first question I may or may not have a Key Date in my collection.
When I saw @TheGoonies1985 mention trophy coin, it made me think.
I always thought that key dates or trophy coins was kind of a subjective thing. I'm sure there's a list out there somewhere. One man's key dates or trophy coins, might be another man's pocket change. We all know the 55DDO, S-VDB, 16-D, 3-Leg Buff come to mind from when we were kids. It seems every series have those handful of very difficult coins to acquire.
After years of looking through this forum, it became evident to me right away that there are 3 or 4 levels of collectors here. Experts or key player collectors, (maybe dealers)/some type of mid level collector/and the novice collector.
When I read through threads here, I automatically put myself in a specific category or level of collector compared to all you guys. This always changes my level of key date coins. My posted coin pictures, usually brings the grade average of that thread down 3 or 4 grades, sorry!
What's my point here?.....I don't know, I don't think I have a point.
This is probably a topic for another thread. Thanks for listening!...I feel better now.
Thank you for your reply; and the very good point you made (a Key Date is as perceived by a collector). For your proof IHC collecting efforts the 1877 proof cent is a/the Key Date.
For me, I have devoted a large part of my collecting efforts to Cameo Proof Franklin Half Dollars. Applying the point you made to me leads me to say that the Key Date coins in my niche collecting area of Cameo Proof Franklins are:
the 1950;
the 1959;
the 1961 Big DDR; and
the 1956Type 1
Of these four coins I have the following:
PF65CAM (was in a PF67CAM PCI holder)
PF67 (No CAM, but IMO it warrants a CAM designation). This coin is a raw purchase in an OGP set.
PF67 (No CAM but the coin does have a Cameo appearance). This coin is a raw purchase in an OGP set. I doubt I will ever find and acquire a raw Cameo example of this coin.
PF66 (the reverse is a CAM). This coin is a raw purchase. I keep looking for a raw CAM example of this coin.
As for the 1959 Proof Franklin shown above, it will soon be replaced with this PF67CAM example that another forum member has agreed to sell to me.
A key date is as perceived by the collector, not the market.... A key date in my IHC proof collection is the 1877 which is obtainable. A suitable 1864-L is only a key date in a variety collection. Although dealers often refer to "key dates" they are almost never rare dates.
The lowest mintage dates are often referred to as the key dates. PCGS populations in various grades reveal another story. For example in RB MS64, a 1877 IHC has the lowest total population of 217. In MS65, the fourth lowest population. In MS66, it has the sixth lowest population with 7 coins compared to the 1871 with a population of 2.
@Boosibri said:
FWIW, I started this thread in 2015 and now hate the first coin imaged in this thread, the 42-C $5 Small Date.
That example specifically, or the issue?
Both, but that example specifically is one of the worst coins I ever bought. I bought it blindly while living in Europe from a US dealer assuming the CAC sticker would cover me.
The issue is one of the most over rated and over priced in branch mint gold.
While not as ‘key’ as the ‘54-O and ‘56-O, for me this is probably the one. For a NOLA Type 1 DE, survivor estimates are 85-95 with a CAC total Pop of 6, making this one a little more key than a 1855-O.
>
AU50cac.
earlyAurum:
What a spectacular set of early quarter eagles you have put together. I stumbled on your Coin Album once before when I was looking for something else, but it should be required viewing for anyone that gets involved in early gold.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I am not a Shield Nickel collector, but I study rarity. Your Gem Proof+ 1867 with rays $5 and the 1880 $5, which definitely looks like a business strike with that mound diagnostic have blown my mind! Congrats!!!
Arguably yes. Any collector of Lincoln cents has to have this coin. I believe many even started with one of these. It was the first coin in the old Whitman albums.
Arguably yes. Any collector of Lincoln cents has to have this coin. I believe many even started with one of these. It was the first coin in the old Whitman albums.
By the above definition, essentially every early Lincoln wheat cent is one too.
I think the key date definition starts with the mintage and adds survive-ability and grade factored into the equation. For Morgans, the 86-O is a key date when you think about MS coins. It had a high mintage (>10MM) and circulated coins under AU55 are readily available at not much of a premium. But a gem 86-O is in the top 10 or so in price for close to 100 coins in series. Same as 1901 P for a gem. For Morgans, agree for each date/MM, none are truly rare, only pricier at the grade level.
@SanctionII said:
Is there an accepted definition of what makes a coin a Key Date?
Not to my knowledge, but here is mine.
"Key" date makes the most sense in the context of mass folder or album collecting from the late 30's to late 60's? when most collectors completed their sets out of circulation. This would be for Lincoln wheat cents to Franklin halves I presume.
If the coin was actually difficult to find from circulation or they had to buy it, then calling it "key" makes sense, not just because it was "low" mintage or (somewhat) more difficult than (most) others in the series.
For other series, I don't think of any as a "key" date though US collecting does of the coin or few coins which were actually the hardest to acquire. I still suspect only a low proportion of those posted in this thread were actually hard to buy even with prior communication. Since Ely Lilly acquired a gold coin collection of 6000 (US and non-US going back centuries) as described by Harvey Stack (who procured the coins for him) in Coin Week, it was still mostly a matter of having the money.
By the inferred US collecting definition, potentially every single date for all four Peru pillar denominations I collect (all except the 8R) are "key". Yes, all 84 coins. If not this mint, definitely all from Guatemala because the mintages max out around 20,000 meaning it isn't just market inefficiency restricting availability. This makes no sense.
Or is the term Key Date similar to the term Rare Coin (which is used to mass market the sale of coins that exist in large numbers and are always available in hours, minutes and even seconds)?
In contemporary and recent US collecting, I'd describe actual usage as a marketing term. Your description describes most "key" dates though the prior response you received seems to be a common definition too.
We can also take the term "key date" from another source: coin album producers. In the earlier years they would have a spot for say a 1909-S VDB. But that spot would be filled in by a cardboard punchout/pullout. If you were lucky enough to obtain one, you just removed the cardboard and placed the coin into the now available slot. They will either state key date or RARE on the cutout. Others I remember were the 22 plain, 1955 DDO. Many still call these coins key dates, even now when they are available because of the internet. Just my 50 cents.
You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!
Comments
@renomedphys wow what a knockout! Thanks for sharing.
I guess this one is the best qualified-
1852 Moffat $10 Close Date K-8 - High R.6/R.7
Pop 1/13 at PCGS, Pop 1/0 at CAC
Likely no more than a dozen survivors today, and 4 of them are SSCA coins. This might be the most original of them all, but as of now it is the ONLY example with CAC approval. Therefore, the lowest graded coin in my collection happens to be my only top pop
.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Great thread.
This is the only CAC approved Mint State 1870-CC Seated Dollar. Anyone who knows the series, knows how difficult the four Carson City coins are in this set. This is the first of the four in the early 70's.
Along with the 1885, this one’s a key to the “V” Nickel series:
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Many consider the 1909-S to be a “semi key” in the IHC series. To me, it’s a key:
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
The Milas 1865. There might be one or two other uncirculated out there. This is the only one that is stickered. Only
35-40 exist and most of those are messed-with. Fairmont only added one - a nice AU53.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
While almost all the draped bust quarter eagles are super hard, this 1804 13 stars is the key.
https://d1htnxwo4o0jhw.cloudfront.net/cert/59799611/large/82432401.jpg
Is there an accepted definition of what makes a coin a Key Date?
Or is the term Key Date similar to the term Rare Coin (which is used to mass market the sale of coins that exist in large numbers and are always available in hours, minutes and even seconds)?
Depending on the answer to my first question I may or may not have a Key Date in my collection.
Just out of curiosity, what is your other trophy coin
This one I call a trophy but it is not because of its value. My 1752 Peru 1 real mintage of 424 (Yonaka reports 4 known but my estimate is that 10-20 still exist). That coin cost me 275$ but is very difficult to find for sale in any grades. That series has mintage's of 50 000+ except for the unique 1751 that I will never own.
My 1752 is holed but that is OK. I could not afford to buy one with such detail if it was not. Sorry I have no images of the coin otherwise I would share it.
The series runs from 1751-1772 (early milled).
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
FWIW, I started this thread in 2015 and now hate the first coin imaged in this thread, the 42-C $5 Small Date.
Latin American Collection
My favorite key, PCGS VG8 CAC…
A key date is as perceived by the collector, not the market. While the market will describe certain coins as rare, like a 1933 St. Gaudens $20, there is only one and from a collectors standpoint it is not obtainable and is beyond the description of a "key date". A key date in my IHC proof collection is the 1877 which is obtainable. A suitable 1864-L is only a key date in a variety collection. Although dealers often refer to "key dates" they are almost never rare dates.
Please post your key date coins......we are all interested on this forum.
OINK
When I saw @TheGoonies1985 mention trophy coin, it made me think.
I always thought that key dates or trophy coins was kind of a subjective thing. I'm sure there's a list out there somewhere. One man's key dates or trophy coins, might be another man's pocket change. We all know the 55DDO, S-VDB, 16-D, 3-Leg Buff come to mind from when we were kids. It seems every series have those handful of very difficult coins to acquire.
After years of looking through this forum, it became evident to me right away that there are 3 or 4 levels of collectors here. Experts or key player collectors, (maybe dealers)/some type of mid level collector/and the novice collector.
When I read through threads here, I automatically put myself in a specific category or level of collector compared to all you guys. This always changes my level of key date coins. My posted coin pictures, usually brings the grade average of that thread down 3 or 4 grades, sorry!
What's my point here?.....I don't know, I don't think I have a point.
This is probably a topic for another thread. Thanks for listening!...I feel better now.
OldIndianNutKase.
Thank you for your reply; and the very good point you made (a Key Date is as perceived by a collector). For your proof IHC collecting efforts the 1877 proof cent is a/the Key Date.
For me, I have devoted a large part of my collecting efforts to Cameo Proof Franklin Half Dollars. Applying the point you made to me leads me to say that the Key Date coins in my niche collecting area of Cameo Proof Franklins are:
the 1950;
the 1959;
the 1961 Big DDR; and
the 1956Type 1
Of these four coins I have the following:
PF65CAM (was in a PF67CAM PCI holder)
PF67 (No CAM, but IMO it warrants a CAM designation). This coin is a raw purchase in an OGP set.
PF67 (No CAM but the coin does have a Cameo appearance). This coin is a raw purchase in an OGP set. I doubt I will ever find and acquire a raw Cameo example of this coin.
PF66 (the reverse is a CAM). This coin is a raw purchase. I keep looking for a raw CAM example of this coin.
As for the 1959 Proof Franklin shown above, it will soon be replaced with this PF67CAM example that another forum member has agreed to sell to me.
A key date is as perceived by the collector, not the market.... A key date in my IHC proof collection is the 1877 which is obtainable. A suitable 1864-L is only a key date in a variety collection. Although dealers often refer to "key dates" they are almost never rare dates.
The lowest mintage dates are often referred to as the key dates. PCGS populations in various grades reveal another story. For example in RB MS64, a 1877 IHC has the lowest total population of 217. In MS65, the fourth lowest population. In MS66, it has the sixth lowest population with 7 coins compared to the 1871 with a population of 2.
That example specifically, or the issue?
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Both, but that example specifically is one of the worst coins I ever bought. I bought it blindly while living in Europe from a US dealer assuming the CAC sticker would cover me.
The issue is one of the most over rated and over priced in branch mint gold.
Latin American Collection
While not as ‘key’ as the ‘54-O and ‘56-O, for me this is probably the one. For a NOLA Type 1 DE, survivor estimates are 85-95 with a CAC total Pop of 6, making this one a little more key than a 1855-O.
>
AU50cac.
earlyAurum:
What a spectacular set of early quarter eagles you have put together. I stumbled on your Coin Album once before when I was looking for something else, but it should be required viewing for anyone that gets involved in early gold.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I am not a Shield Nickel collector, but I study rarity. Your Gem Proof+ 1867 with rays $5 and the 1880 $5, which definitely looks like a business strike with that mound diagnostic have blown my mind! Congrats!!!
Is this one even a “key” date?
Arguably yes. Any collector of Lincoln cents has to have this coin. I believe many even started with one of these. It was the first coin in the old Whitman albums.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
By the above definition, essentially every early Lincoln wheat cent is one too.
I think the key date definition starts with the mintage and adds survive-ability and grade factored into the equation. For Morgans, the 86-O is a key date when you think about MS coins. It had a high mintage (>10MM) and circulated coins under AU55 are readily available at not much of a premium. But a gem 86-O is in the top 10 or so in price for close to 100 coins in series. Same as 1901 P for a gem. For Morgans, agree for each date/MM, none are truly rare, only pricier at the grade level.
Not to my knowledge, but here is mine.
"Key" date makes the most sense in the context of mass folder or album collecting from the late 30's to late 60's? when most collectors completed their sets out of circulation. This would be for Lincoln wheat cents to Franklin halves I presume.
If the coin was actually difficult to find from circulation or they had to buy it, then calling it "key" makes sense, not just because it was "low" mintage or (somewhat) more difficult than (most) others in the series.
For other series, I don't think of any as a "key" date though US collecting does of the coin or few coins which were actually the hardest to acquire. I still suspect only a low proportion of those posted in this thread were actually hard to buy even with prior communication. Since Ely Lilly acquired a gold coin collection of 6000 (US and non-US going back centuries) as described by Harvey Stack (who procured the coins for him) in Coin Week, it was still mostly a matter of having the money.
By the inferred US collecting definition, potentially every single date for all four Peru pillar denominations I collect (all except the 8R) are "key". Yes, all 84 coins. If not this mint, definitely all from Guatemala because the mintages max out around 20,000 meaning it isn't just market inefficiency restricting availability. This makes no sense.
In contemporary and recent US collecting, I'd describe actual usage as a marketing term. Your description describes most "key" dates though the prior response you received seems to be a common definition too.
We can also take the term "key date" from another source: coin album producers. In the earlier years they would have a spot for say a 1909-S VDB. But that spot would be filled in by a cardboard punchout/pullout. If you were lucky enough to obtain one, you just removed the cardboard and placed the coin into the now available slot. They will either state key date or RARE on the cutout. Others I remember were the 22 plain, 1955 DDO. Many still call these coins key dates, even now when they are available because of the internet. Just my 50 cents.