Unbelievable toned walker

Walkernut · June 30, 2015 12:32AM

I was hoping to add this to my collection from an Ebay auction that ended this morning. But at $1213.00, it was triple what I was willing to pay. Has the world gone nuts?

1944-P NGC ms-66

crazyhounddog · June 30, 2015 12:40AM

Lots a color with this one. Very attractive to my eyes and a great pick up.

This gets the big chuck thumbs up. It's just to nice NOT to get it. AWESOME piece!!

Bochiman · June 30, 2015 12:53AM

1. Yes, the world has gone nuts
2. Haven't seen another like it, so either a dealer believes he has a customer that will pay much more (either because it is believed to be upgradeable or because of the spectacular color), or a customer has the spare funds and really wants it (for same reason as dealer)

Nice looker....above what I would pay.

Broadstruck · June 30, 2015 12:55AM

Could have been Justacommeman's Bride looking for a wedding present which will turn his loosing out at Legend honeymoon frown upside down

SeattleSlammer · June 30, 2015 12:56AM

I wouldn't be too bummed. Pics look a bit juiced. I think that it may be a letdown in hand. I like your avatar example a lot more.

jerseycat101 · June 30, 2015 1:06AM

If I was a collector of toned Walkers, that would be a must-have.

Incredible color, and undeniably NT.

BustHalfBrian · June 30, 2015 1:18AM

That's pretty wild. If I hadn't seen the date I'd have thought it was an ASE!

guitarwes · June 30, 2015 1:18AM

A unique one indeed. Those greens are awesome.

Maybe it was a wedding gift from Mrs. Justacommeman from which she spared no expense in acquiring.

Walkerfan · June 30, 2015 1:19AM

That coin is one of the most spectacularly toned Walkers that I have ever seen. It looks NT for sure. I don't think it's juiced. I think that professional images would likely bring out even more color. I don't usually pay up for color but MAN that would look nice in ANYONE'S set!! Yes, the world is going crazy but no I am NOT surprised by that price, as that is a rare bird.

Looks to have a weak strike, though.

TwoSides2aCoin · June 30, 2015 1:21AM

Bring me my walker. I've fallen and I can't get up.

tradedollarnut · June 30, 2015 1:22AM

A year from now, after skipping Starbucks each day, the buyer will have that coin free and clear in his collection - and have lost ten pounds. That's called a win win.

Wabbit2313 · June 30, 2015 1:28AM

Here is the real image. The fact that there is not a "Star" designation from NGC is another sign that it might not be as nice as the eBay images.

Walkerfan · June 30, 2015 1:45AM

<< Here is the real image. The fact that there is not a "Star" designation from NGC is another sign that it might not be as nice as the eBay images.

>>

VERY true, as I don't like that image at all.

Catbert · June 30, 2015 1:49AM

Wabbit - when you say that is the "real" image, isn't that a scan? How "real" is that?

brg5658 · June 30, 2015 2:07AM

<< Wabbit - when you say that is the "real" image, isn't that a scan? How "real" is that? >>

It's from the NGC cert verification page.

I don't personally care for the toning on this one. The "pooling" in the 1 to 3 o'clock region is not attractive to my eye. To each his own.

Wabbit2313 · June 30, 2015 2:10AM

<< Wabbit - when you say that is the "real" image, isn't that a scan? How "real" is that? >>

There is no "Star", what else needs to be said? It is dark toning lightened up to look bright. Dark toning does not get a star. I see this all the time on Proof Morgans. They look very colorful in the images, and in hand, like brown ugly paint! Lighting and photoshop are the modern coin doctors!

clarkbar04 · June 30, 2015 2:11AM

I was watching that one as well. I had a feeling the photos were juiced and were only visible under "optimal lighting conditions".

There was a 64 in another auction that was allegedly the other end of the roll coin.

EvilEmpire · June 30, 2015 2:17AM

That Walker certainly has that 'PCI holder toning' that so many ASE's in their holders exhibit. Check out the recent thread about crazy prices for toned ASE's, and you get the same type of toning (almost exactly the same). Though, with the Walker being .900, and an ASE being .999, would they, in fact, exhibit the same type of toning, right down to that 'donut hole' in the center?? Any comments would certainly be appreciated, as I'm no expert on toning, I prefer blast white, untoned silver coins for my collection, and I own exactly 1 toned coin...a 1997 Law Enforcement commem that has gold/purple/burnt orange... sitting in an old, small, white ANACS holder, which have been discussed as to causing toning themselves.

roadrunner · June 30, 2015 2:25AM

Are we sure this coin was graded after the "star" craze began (ie approx 2008)?

If it is a true toner and ok for the MS66 grade then it's probably a decent value at 1% of the $100K+ that the lone PCGS MS68 of this date sold for.

If that was the 10th coin in the submission, I'd like to see the other 9.

TopographicOceans · June 30, 2015 2:30AM

Expensive picture

BAJJERFAN · June 30, 2015 2:30AM

<< 

<< Wabbit - when you say that is the "real" image, isn't that a scan? How "real" is that? >>

There is no "Star", what else needs to be said? Lighting and photoshop are the modern coin doctors! >>

Truer words were never written.

nwcoast · June 30, 2015 2:33AM

I wouldn't be too bummed if I'd lost on this auction.
As others have pointed out, those photos make it look lighter than it likely is in hand.
I bet it looks good under a very bright light yet those photos in the slab are telling. It looks to be a pretty dark tone.
Color 'almost' looks AT to my eye and I'm not even sure our hosts wouldn't BB this as "questionable color" just my humble opion here and no offence to the buyer and others who dig it.

Though I love toners, when tempted to buy, I'm reminded of something my wife recently said, and she's pretty sympathetic to my collecting.
It was something to the effect of.
"Don't ever pay a ton of money for crazy color on the coins you buy! Isn't it ultimately on its way to becoming black tarnish? Transient and unstable over time?" And I wouldn't want to tic her off!!

Stability and storage are the key. I know this. And, this is a separate discussion.
"Unbelievable" is just the word for this one IMO,
I'm no expert though- just a collector.

stman · June 30, 2015 2:34AM

If I were to listen to most of the replies in this thread, I'd REALLY not know what I'm doing.

Walkerfan · June 30, 2015 2:55AM

<< If I were to listen to most of the replies in this thread, I'd REALLY not know what I'm doing.

>>

Bottom line---judging from images is dicey at best. This one that I'd like to see in hand. Then I could definitely give you a meaningful opinion. I still think it's NT just not sure about the colors and how dark it is.

FWIW---I have seen darker coins also receive a STAR from NGC.

ElmerFusterpuck · June 30, 2015 3:17AM

I wouldn't take the star or lack of too seriously. I have the two below in my collection and neither have a star, though I think they are worthy of one, first one is a 63, the other is a 65 with the orange more vivid in hand than in that pic. I think the OP's coin is a nice one too.

keets · June 30, 2015 3:19AM

A year from now, after skipping Starbucks each day, the buyer will have that coin free and clear in his collection - and have lost ten pounds, but he might find himself buried for a long time. That's called a win win?

I won't be surprised if the coin is returned and listed again.

brg5658 · June 30, 2015 3:21AM

<< Are we sure this coin was graded after the "star" craze began (ie approx 2008)?

If it is a true toner and ok for the MS66 grade then it's probably a decent value at 1% of the $100K+ that the lone PCGS MS68 of this date sold for.

If that was the 10th coin in the submission, I'd like to see the other 9. >>

Where do you get your information (2008)? The STAR designation has been used at NGC since 2000. It was recently (Feb 2014) expanded to world coins. The coin under discussion was at least slabbed relatively recently, thus the pronged holder. It could have been reslabbed, but the 7 digit invoice number leads me to believe it was indeed first graded in the era of the star designation.

lasvegasteddy · June 30, 2015 4:04AM

over my budget...so it wasn't me who bought this

sweet full coverage...i love how her dress glows at knee level
sweet coin

isn't it mostly the proofs that have color in this series?

roadrunner · June 30, 2015 4:45AM

<< ...Where do you get your information (2008)? The STAR designation has been used at NGC since 2000. It was recently (Feb 2014) expanded to world coins. The coin under discussion was at least slabbed relatively recently, thus the pronged holder. It could have been reslabbed, but the 7 digit invoice number leads me to believe it was indeed first graded in the era of the star designation. >>

I never did much with star coins. Last that I recalled there was an event in 2008. So I messed up and mixed the two up. Only owned 1 star coin ever - and that coin (MS67 no drapery half dime) got that in 2008. The years just roll together......

Star grading expanded in Jan 2008

Broadstruck · June 30, 2015 7:32AM

Stuart · June 30, 2015 9:16AM

The toning pattern on this coin looks like a chemistry experiment to me.

AUandAG · June 30, 2015 9:38AM

Don't think that that would pass the test at PCGS...

bob

golden · June 30, 2015 10:49AM

I am not a fan of that coin.

OldIndianNutKase · June 30, 2015 10:57AM

<< The toning pattern on this coin looks like a chemistry experiment to me. >>

To me it looks like some of the toning was "rubbed" off the high spots on the devices, and ther are a lot of nicks and scratches where the toning is absent. This coin's toning is not on par with superbly toned proof walkers.

OINK

WildIdea · June 30, 2015 11:59AM

<< Wabbit - when you say that is the "real" image, isn't that a scan? How "real" is that? >>

Exactly, the coin isn't lit properly in that picture.

Walkernut · July 1, 2015 1:03AM

The coin closest I have to looking like the 1944-p is a NGC ms-66 1936 walker. In hand it is unremarkable much like a geode, but when opened and exposed to light at the right angle, changes from ugly to something quite beautiful IMHO. Below are pics of the coin's reverse side with and without optimal lighting.

nencoin · July 1, 2015 3:20AM

<< Here is the real image. The fact that there is not a "Star" designation from NGC is another sign that it might not be as nice as the eBay images.

>>

The NGC scanned images they use for cert verification are horrible and rarely look like the coin.

BAJJERFAN · July 1, 2015 3:30AM

You will have a return privilege if you opt to exercise it after receiving the coin.

Wabbit2313 · July 1, 2015 3:49AM

<< The NGC scanned images they use for cert verification are horrible and rarely look like the coin. >>

-No star.
-Without a star no reason not to cross to PCGS. Not in PCGS, wonder why?
-Not CAC.

NGC images rarely look like the coin when the coin looks like it did on eBay, I'll give you that.

cameonut2011 · July 1, 2015 3:53AM

<< Don't think that that would pass the test at PCGS...

bob

>>

This one made it in PCGS problem free plastic.

cameonut2011 · July 1, 2015 4:11AM

P.S. I won this and the sister coin. I will post to this thread when I have the coins in hand.

johnny9434 · July 1, 2015 4:17AM

<< 

<< Here is the real image. The fact that there is not a "Star" designation from NGC is another sign that it might not be as nice as the eBay images.

>>

VERY true, as I don't like that image at all. >>

ditto, that is so not for me. jmo and fwiw

Walkernut · July 1, 2015 4:35AM

PCGS does grade coins with outrageous toning such as this one 1936-d MS-65 #50078744

winky · July 1, 2015 4:37AM

Yes they are nuts and this coin looks too good to be true. It is beautiful tho but is it real????

cameonut2011 · July 1, 2015 4:44AM

<< PCGS does grade coins with outrageous toning such as this one 1936-d MS-65 #50078744

>>

I see a lot of similarities in the obverse toning on this and the coin in the OP.

DollarAfterDollar · July 1, 2015 5:44AM

The pictures in the listing are probably much closer to the actual look in hand. NGC's scans are not "the real pictures".

It's worth every cent paid. If you don't think so, find one better and see how much they want for it.

cameonut2011 · July 1, 2015 1:13PM

<< Are we sure this coin was graded after the "star" craze began (ie approx 2008)?

If it is a true toner and ok for the MS66 grade then it's probably a decent value at 1% of the $100K+ that the lone PCGS MS68 of this date sold for.

If that was the 10th coin in the submission, I'd like to see the other 9. >>

Here are the other coins from the submission:
1893-O MS62 S$1
1855 AU58 G$1
1851 MS62 G$1
1903 MS62 $2.5
1857 MS61 G$1
1907 DELETED GRADE $2.5
1862 DELETED GRADE G$1
1909-D MS62 $5
1910 MS63 $2.50
1944 MS66 50c
1905 DELETED GRADE $2.5
1902-S MS64 $5
1880-CC MS66 $1
1908 MS64 $2.50
1925-D MS62 $2.50
1921 Improperly Cleaned Alabama 50c
1917-D Obv. MS62 50c
1928 MS62 $2.50

supertooth · July 1, 2015 11:56PM

Hello Folks---As most of you know that read my posts, I don't post a lot---except when I think that I may be of some help.

Back years ago, my wife took my first digital camera pictures of my registry set Walkers. I have a lot of Wayte Raymond page toned Walkers in my sets. When my wife put them onto the computer, I noticed that the colors were NOT interupted. By that I mean that there were NO blotches on the surfaces. If you look at the 1944 coin, there are VERY MANY white specks---blotchy areas. The various colors ARE NOT stable throughout---but are interrupted by these speckled white spots.

Over the years, when I see this----I am a believer that the coin quite possibly is AT. It may have eye appeal but eye appeal for one person may not be eye appeal for another. And while both NGC and PCGS have been known to slab such coins as "market acceptable"---that doesn't mean that they are all NT.

This 1944 coin has what I would also call a strike that has separation lines that simply ARE NOT complete. Now, on a 1944 coin that is graded an MS66---those lines SHOULD BE sharp and distinct. It looks to me as if SOMEONE got a roll of 44 coins----and played with them---and GOT LUCKY with a grade.

Now, PLEASE, this is just my opinion---my opinion ALONE. I offer it only from my own experience. I don't expect all of you to necessarily agree with me. In any event, I wish all of you the very best in your collecting efforts. Bob [supertooth]

lcoopie · July 2, 2015 12:24AM

After hanging around here for a while you get a feel who to listen to and who to ignore.

BIGAL2749 · July 2, 2015 12:48AM

My mind can't get pass thinking of that 1881-S Morgan

Gorgeous with a natural toning pattern

I've been collecting for 40 years but don't know anything about pricing toners.

Always been fond of toning but I don't think I ever paid more than a 50% premium for an end of the roll Morgan with great colors. Although I never got anything like or any where close to that 81-S Morgan

Are there any pricing guidelines?

roadrunner · July 2, 2015 1:01AM

<< 

<< The NGC scanned images they use for cert verification are horrible and rarely look like the coin. >>

-No star.
-Without a star no reason not to cross to PCGS. Not in PCGS, wonder why?
-Not CAC.

NGC images rarely look like the coin when the coin looks like it did on eBay, I'll give you that. >>

No star? That represents >99% of all the coins in the entire market. There's plenty of company.
Not in PCGS holder? That probably represents >50% of all the top tiered slabbed coins. And then there's the issue of hundreds of millions to billions of raw coins.
Not CAC'd? Well for Mint State Morgans, that would be approx 98.4% of all PCGS/NGC Morgans (assuming a 2X resubmission rate). For MS Barber halves, 87.6% of all coins. Again, lots of company.

I've had lots of coins in NGC holders that would never cross, yet stickered. The holder is more of an issue than the coin inside. I had an NGC MS67 half dime that I tried 4X over 15 years to cross. It just wouldn't go. The coin was originally graded MS67 in 1990 and sold for big money at that time. Just before I decided to sell the coin I sent it off one last time to NGC hoping it might MS68. It didn't but got the "star." It was also CAC'd. When it went off in auction it sold for 3X what a PCGS MS67 would have fetched. It brought 2/3 of the way to MS68 money. But, it would never cross. Just the way it is. Gene Gardner bought that coin in 2010. I don't know if it was him or someone earlier who upgraded it to NGC MS68*. Interesting that it has the same type of "white spots" that are mentioned in an earlier post by supertooth. And this coin has been untouched since 1990. No doubt sat in an album for a number of years. Possibly dipped at one point in its life. Did not CAC as a 68 though.

1838 MS68* half dime

Unbelievable toned walker

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