.... below is a standard US MS Windows PC keyboard layout. Note the number pad on the right. That's what people who do data entry use, not the row on top as it takes forever. Anyhow, I'm not saying it's a mechanical error but it could be, has happened to me and countless others. One slip of the finger and it's a 7 not a 4. And if copying from handwriting a 4 could also look like a 7 depending on handwriting style. All I'm saying is a 64 vs a 67 is an order of magnitude leap in a coin, nothing like AU58 to MS62 (also 3 grades). It could just be a mechanical error...
But isn't the last check on the slabbed coin done by an expert to ensure the coin is "right" for the grade and label, holder, designation, etc. are all correct? Does that person also have access to the grader's numbers? If the graders all called it a 66/67 how does it get slabbed as a 64....and sent out the door to boot?
Obviously a nice coin, but here's a question to ponder: If you owned this coin (and imagine that it was raw), what grade would you expect it to get if you sent it in? (I really wish there was a more accurate "in hand" picture of the coin we could see, and not just the glamorized "true view" picture).
If you sent this in with your submission, would you really expect the grade to come back as a 67? Unless the sender's ego was through the roof, I doubt it.
The coin is surely a 66 -from the pictures - and could be a 67.... However, I will never agree with a grade bump for tarnish.... I believe grades should reflect quality of strike and subsequent wear ..... To me, the color of the tarnish - which admittedly can be anywhere from ugly to amazing - should be considered separately, and usually is reflected in price. Technically, tarnish is environmental damage and signifies a degradation of the surface metal. Cheers, RickO
<< <i>One amazing coin. Forget the grade, the color carries the price >>
I always find it odd when people justify a blatantly overgraded coin by saying the grade is irrelevant.
As a hypothetical exercise in "reality" -- If the grade is really so irrelevant on coins like these, then I want to see an auction where brand of plastic and grades are obscured. Yes, it's a hypothetical exercise, but I think you get the point. The price is a function of the grade, the brand of plastic, the color, and several other factors (like two competing Registry players with more money than brains).
Are you suggesting that all coins deemed "monster toners" should just be put in PCGS slabs and graded as "Genuine Monster" -- since the grade is irrelevant?
-Brandon -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins] -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
<< <i>I wonder if it was gassed in the holder to create the toning? >>
I hope not as that would upset the balance of the entire monster toner Morgan market....and that the sniffer has some shortcomings. This coin has very delicate light yellow-orange toning surrounding the figures, stars, and also in the deep recesses of Liberty's hair, in the letters of "LIBERTY," etc. If gassing short term can reproduce this look, we're in some big trouble. Interesting that this coin has some of the same coloration as the MS67 Sunnywood coin linked above. The Sunnywood coin appears cleaner while this one would seem to have more eye popping colors and be better struck over the ear and on the eagle's breast. Buyers would have to decide what was more important to them. But it's not a simple decision to ignore eye appeal + strike vs. marks. All it needs now is a sticker. On Morgans, the obverse carries much more weight.
I reviewed most of those Sunnywood toner Morgan photos again and would say that most of his 66's are similar "in marks" to the MS67 1904-0 under discussion. Still, there were some toner MS67's that maybe weren't as clean as some of the 66's. Grading varies, especially when eye appeal is in play. Who knew? I'm still blown away that a toner common date MS67+ Morgan reached $21K at Sunnywood. The 2 common date 68's reached $35K and $45K. Toning counts....7X to 20X on those 3 coins.
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Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
But isn't the last check on the slabbed coin done by an expert to ensure the coin is "right" for the grade and label, holder, designation, etc. are all correct? Does that person also have access to the grader's numbers? If the graders all called it a 66/67 how does it get slabbed as a 64....and sent out the door to boot?
In this case the number isn't terribly consequential in terms of value. When it doesn't matter, why not be a little generous?
<< <i>One amazing coin. Forget the grade, the color carries the price >>
+1, could it be a market grade?
If you sent this in with your submission, would you really expect the grade to come back as a 67? Unless the sender's ego was through the roof, I doubt it.
Legend - Sunnywood
<< <i>One amazing coin. Forget the grade, the color carries the price >>
I always find it odd when people justify a blatantly overgraded coin by saying the grade is irrelevant.
As a hypothetical exercise in "reality" -- If the grade is really so irrelevant on coins like these, then I want to see an auction where brand of plastic and grades are obscured. Yes, it's a hypothetical exercise, but I think you get the point. The price is a function of the grade, the brand of plastic, the color, and several other factors (like two competing Registry players with more money than brains).
Are you suggesting that all coins deemed "monster toners" should just be put in PCGS slabs and graded as "Genuine Monster" -- since the grade is irrelevant?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
<< <i>I wonder if it was gassed in the holder to create the toning? >>
I hope not as that would upset the balance of the entire monster toner Morgan market....and that the sniffer has some shortcomings. This coin has very delicate light yellow-orange toning surrounding the figures, stars, and also in the deep recesses of Liberty's hair, in the letters of "LIBERTY," etc. If gassing short term can reproduce this look, we're in some big trouble. Interesting that this coin has some of the same coloration as the MS67 Sunnywood coin linked above. The Sunnywood coin appears cleaner while this one would seem to have more eye popping colors and be better struck over the ear and on the eagle's breast. Buyers would have to decide what was more important to them. But it's not a simple decision to ignore eye appeal + strike vs. marks. All it needs now is a sticker. On Morgans, the obverse carries much more weight.
I reviewed most of those Sunnywood toner Morgan photos again and would say that most of his 66's are similar "in marks" to the MS67 1904-0 under discussion. Still, there were some toner MS67's that maybe weren't as clean as some of the 66's. Grading varies, especially when eye appeal is in play. Who knew? I'm still blown away that a toner common date MS67+ Morgan reached $21K at Sunnywood. The 2 common date 68's reached $35K and $45K. Toning counts....7X to 20X on those 3 coins.
<< <i>I'll go out on a limb and say neither of those grades is right. >>
Louis Armstrong
<< <i>And we can't have a 69+ grade because it is too hard to differentiate between a 69 and 70? Pretty funny. Wondercoin. >>
I dont know,. doesnt this prove the point it is tough to differentiate?