Where should one go to sell a collection, or parts thereof?
TahoeDale
Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭
This question has been raised many times, here, and in private discussions among many collectors.
Both the venue, and timing are super important. And it depends greatly on the nature of the coins-circ, high grade, series, extreme rarities.
Most collectors can buy coins without serious consideration of the source-internet, dealer sites, auctions-large and small. But when selling your coins
there is a more complicated process to review, to get the best result.
I will detail the 10 sales I have been involved with over the last 23 years, and lay out the results, with all the positives and negatives that occurred.
In the meantime, think about the choices you have made(or considered), and we can hopefully improve all of our choices.
Both the venue, and timing are super important. And it depends greatly on the nature of the coins-circ, high grade, series, extreme rarities.
Most collectors can buy coins without serious consideration of the source-internet, dealer sites, auctions-large and small. But when selling your coins
there is a more complicated process to review, to get the best result.
I will detail the 10 sales I have been involved with over the last 23 years, and lay out the results, with all the positives and negatives that occurred.
In the meantime, think about the choices you have made(or considered), and we can hopefully improve all of our choices.
TahoeDale
0
Comments
I submitted a very detailed listing to Heritage and they pretty much turned thier nose up to my holdings, even though it well exceeded PCGS trends and thier minimum amount.
GreatCollections have low fees and weekly auctions.
Live and learn.
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Of course if it is in demand, any venue will work well.
I recently tried GC and found the results to be an expensive loss. I'm not sure how large that audience is but I think it is good place for buyers.
If you can negotiate a good rate with HA their no reserve Internet auctions can bring a good market price.
I really think that the only way to do it is on a coin by coin basis. Even with the sort of quality that Dale collects, there can be overkill in stand-alone sales, or wholesale consignments to a single dealer (at least when the dealer is very publicly handling a collection as a group). Some coins benefit from being the top dog at auction, others are best sold quietly to specialists and others sometimes need to sit in someone's case for a while.
Thinking of your holdings as a "collection" when it comes time to sell is probably a mistake. Breaking the material down into groups and individual pieces before making any decisions is probably a wise move.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Consigned 7 coins to Heritage auction, all had reserves that were just below my cost( holding period was less than 3 years, as I had just begun buying
high end type). Heritage allowed an advance against sales, I "borrowed" 40,000, and no coin met reserve. I had to scramble to repay the advance.
Not as bad as it sounds, as I did not lose but a little interest on the advance, and sold all the coins in the next 5 years, with no losses. But it started to
open my eyes on pricing, and the type of coin to try the auction venue. One of the coins was the 1795 FH half, O.113 in NGC 64, which recently crossed to PCGS,
and sold for over 200,000( I think I had a 50,000 reserve that was not met)
Being trapped in the position of needing to liquidate quickly is the surest pathway to poor returns.
I had held these coins for about 7 years, buying them from US coins from 1993 through 2000. Kenny Duncan helped
me with pricing and all sold, for good money( and profits) at the show. I held one back for a certain dealer who had
a customer for the 1798 15 stars small eagle in PC 58. I think it sold for 25k( paid 16K), and is today worth close
to 100K.
Looking back, all would have brought over100% more if held for another 10 years.
It is becoming clear that the holding period is becoming more important.
Consigned to Superior for sale in Spring 2006. Realized about 10% over cost, with the new DCAM designation helping
several realize 25K. Sale was necessary to complete a buy of a 310,000 early half in Sept 2005. 1796 15 stars small eagle half in NGC 64
Sale of another early half to finalize the new purchase-1796 15 stars half in AU 58. Bought in 2001 for 55K
and Don Willis sold it for me, realizing 175,000. This coin had been consigned to another auction company and we pulled it when the new buyer
was found by Don. Only time that has happened.
And the only time I have committed to buying an expensive coin that would require the sale of other coins later, to fund the buy.
to another collector. Broke even after a 6 year hold.
I doubt these coins are worth more today
Consigned to ANR for a March 2006 sale in Baltimore of the New York Connoisseur collection.
There were several coins in the sale I wanted to buy.
The result of the sale was as expected-the rare dates in top grades led the way, with the 1885 in MS 67( top pop tied with one other)
bringing 75K(cost-11k), the 12-S in 66--23K(cost 6K), and most of the generic dates breaking even. This set was built between 1995 and 2006.
The 1885 was bought by The Number One set owner today for 170,000 about 3 years ago(2012?)
US Civil War coinage
Historical Medals
US Civil War coinage
Historical Medals
There are 5 more sales, and it does change as the holding period increases. And the dealing with auction companies and dealers get more complicated.
Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage
Thanks for sharing.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>TahoeDale, what are your conclusions ? >>
Make friends with Don Willis
95 % complete, average grade 65.5
At the time, there were 2 very serious collectors competing. I invited them to a meet, where I had priced all the coins(about 70 in number.)
They flipped a coin to start, and then bought about 25 of the coins at my price. After this partial sale, I consigned the remainder to Pinnacle rarities,
again at a net amount for each remaining coin. One of the 2 collectors bought several more from Pinnacle immediately, and the remainder
were sold from their site, in less than 120 days.
A very satisfactory result.
Hoard the keys.
The number 2 all time set of MS Barber halves, average grade 65.6. Consigned to Heritage for the 2009 FUN sale,
at a very tenuous time. The coins were sent to Heritage in the spring of 2008, and all H_ll was breaking loose,
in the financial markets. I was worried I had made a bad choice for the timing of the sale but stuck with it.
The dealing with Heritage hit a snag, as I was promised that the set would be included in Platinum nights, with a separate catalog.
But when the sale and catalogs were announced, about 25 of the lesser dates/grades were not in the premium part and were to be sold the afternoon before Platinum nights.
We almost had some serious litigation, but Heritage finally agreed to a reasonable compromise. I placed a minimum result for each of these coins, including the sellers part
of the Buyers premium, and if any of the coins did not reach this set price, I was to be paid the difference, by Heritage in the final accounting.
The afternoon sale was light. and many of the coins did not meet the agreed minimum price. However, the evening sale went great and was an overall success.
And Heritage met their promise by adding several thousand dollars to the final prices realized.
It was an unreserved sale of all coins, except one. I had not wanted to include it in the auction, keeping it as the one coin I would have liked to save. But Heritage convinced me
to have a sale of a complete set, so the king was included-1892 micro-o in PCGS 68 with CAC approval. Provenance Eliasberg. I still own it as the 300k reserve was too high for the times,
with the highest bid 240,000.
Final net to me-1,050,000. Original cost of the coins sold-400,000.
I agreed to a payment of proceeds over 90 days, 1/3 every 30 days. Heritage and I are still very close, and the snag in the presentation was compromised well, with both parties happy.
Several high end capped bust halves to a Sheridan Downey mail bid/ANA show. Each coin exceeded reserve, and with only a 10% buyers premium,
all coins sold, some for over 70% reserved amounts. This is a great boutique venue, with specialized collectors and always seems to be successful.
A group of gold commems to a Legends PCGS sale. Okay result, but values had decreased over the time from purchase to sale date and I lost money( about 20%)
A straight consignment to a dealer would have resulted in a similar loss.
The octagonal Pan Pac in PC 63 was consigned separately to a gold dealer, who sold it at market(less 5%). Still a nice increase as it had been purchased in 2004 ( sale was in 2012)
10th sale-January 2014. At Fun, the Jack Lee 1884 Trade dollar in PC 65 was to be auctioned and there was aggressive bidding. It sold for just under 1 milliom. I received
a call from Pinnacle rarities who represented the underbidder, inquiring if I wound.be interested in selling my 1884 TD in 63(Norweb) There had been one sale of the 65,several years prior and pricing had been 600k.
Now with a million dollar tag on the 65, what is the 63 worth? The 63 was valued at 400K before the sale, and i placed a non=negotiable price of 600K. on the coin. It took only a little time to conclude a deal. But terms were included and complicated. The buyer wants to send 600 k value coins to Pinnacle for sale, and no cash would come to me til these trades were sold, and prodeeds available.. Not so nice.
But I had thought about a LIke Kind exchange(LKE) authorized by the IRS and treasury .So I allowed the sale of the consigned coins from the buyer, to be sold, with the proceeds set aside for purchases of coins that
woild qualify as LK under the Regs. It took almost 5.5 months , for sale of the traded coins, and the purchase of the new coins to be completed. Documents galore have been written explaining the. sale
For those unfamiliar with a LKE, see the regs for the documentation required
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Most of us will never dabble in such expensive coins, but this is quite a valuable insight into that part of the market.
There is money to be lost and made at every level of collecting, and the timing and venue of sale is of utmost importance.
The 1 thing that really has me scratching my head was the sale of your Barber Half Collection. Why oh why would Heritage need a payment plan on the coins they auctioned for you? Did they give terms to all the buyers who won your coins?
Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage
<< <i>8th and 9th sales-
Several high end capped bust halves to a Sheridan Downey mail bid/ANA show. Each coin exceeded reserve, and with only a 10% buyers premium,
all coins sold, some for over 70% reserved amounts. This is a great boutique venue, with specialized collectors and always seems to be successful.
A group of gold commems to a Legends PCGS sale. Okay result, but values had decreased over the time from purchase to sale date and I lost money( about 20%)
A straight consignment to a dealer would have resulted in a similar loss.
The octagonal Pan Pac in PC 63 was consigned separately to a gold dealer, who sold it at market(less 5%). Still a nice increase as it had been purchased in 2004 ( sale was in 2012)
10th sale-January 2014. At Fun, the Jack Lee 1884 Trade dollar in PC 65 was to be auctioned and there was aggressive bidding. It sold for just under 1 milliom. I received
a call from Pinnacle rarities who represented the underbidder, inquiring if I wound.be interested in selling my 1884 TD in 63(Norweb) There had been one sale of the 65,several years prior and pricing had been 600k.
Now with a million dollar tag on the 65, what is the 63 worth? The 63 was valued at 400K before the sale, and i placed a non=negotiable price of 600K. on the coin. It took only a little time to conclude a deal. But terms were included and complicated. The buyer wants to send 600 k value coins to Pinnacle for sale, and no cash would come to me til these trades were sold, and prodeeds available.. Not so nice.
But I had thought about a LIke Kind exchange(LKE) authorized by the IRS and treasury .So I allowed the sale of the consigned coins from the buyer, to be sold, with the proceeds set aside for purchases of coins that
woild qualify as LK under the Regs. It took almost 5.5 months , for sale of the traded coins, and the purchase of the new coins to be completed. Documents galore have been written explaining the. sale
For those unfamiliar with a LKE, see the regs for the documentation required >>
Makes you wonder how the person who bought the TD in 63 would have financed the 65 TD.
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
This is a great that you were willing to share this information -- a lot of good stuff here. There is certainly more than one way to sell coins and your posts show how people in this business/hobby can get creative to get a deal done or to keep people happy (in Heritage's case).
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
Posts like this keep the forum alive for me.
Thank you.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
Attend a local coin club, display your collection, and let it be known your collection is for sale. Be patient and acknowledge it may take several months before the transaction is complete. Keep in mind the more desperate you are for a sale, the less you will get. Coin club attendees are usually pretty regular and known within the club, so the risk of getting a bad form of payment is minimized. There is also no worry about shipping as coin club attendees meet in person. An additional benefit is that you are selling to another numismatist who shares your appreciation for coins.
Has anyone tried this? I am assuming that as a collector, you hope to break even and want to minimize the potential of a bad check or being robbed.