Error coin experts help please
OGDan
Posts: 3,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
Pictured below are the reeds from a coin in the seated series (keeping this vague for now). I'd like a little help from error coin experts on what they think happened here.
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not trying to proclaim myself as an expert but i don't see anything awry with the edge. perhaps my lack of expertise prevents the identification re: your inquiry?
almost thought filed rims but that is prob just normal wear?
i do look forward to seeing where this goes.
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but if you're talking about the
'flattened' area above the reeding
in your scan, I'd say it's been
grinded off - a fairly common occurrence
to gain silver (or gold, even more common).
I do not see anything in the reeding that
says 'error', so I assume its the rough
area above the reeding that you're referring
to, correct?
I'm specifically referring to the reed shape, as well as the grooves between the reeds. I'm fairly certain the grooves are as made. The shape of the reeds looks to me like an extra, offset imprint of the collar.
it would help to know the year/mm. some big variations throughout the series.
im all but positive ive seen this on a few diff type coins fwiw.
i do see what you mean and figured that is what you were referring to but nice to have that confirmed.
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Here's a closer view with arrows to show two things I notice:
1. An extra "tooth" at the top of each groove, as I've the collar imprint occurred once, then an extra time slightly offset.
2. Extra raised metal in the grooves.
My main curiosity is how this might have happened and was hoping some of the error experts could chime in.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>Could this be a DDE (double die edge)??
Remember that the edge of the coin isn't struck by dies, rather the reeds are imparted by the collar as the coin expands when struck. My first thought is the coin was struck twice in collar, with slight rotation in between strikes.
I have seen a doubled collar used on an Australian shilling struck at either Denver or San Francisco during WW2, and it looks quite different than this.
TD
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<< <i>I see nothing unusual with the edge of this coin. Collars are used until they erode to the point that a coin struck in them would be too large, and in this lifetime (they outlast a lot of pairs of dies!) it is not unusual for them to pick up small grooves that leave small raised lines between the reeds.
I have seen a doubled collar used on an Australian shilling struck at either Denver or San Francisco during WW2, and it looks quite different than this.
TD >>
Interesting, I appreciate your insight. I figured this could be the case but hadn't ever seen it in the wild.
What's curious about this particular coin is the pattern is very distinct all around the coin. If this is indeed due to erosion of the collar, I wouldn't expect it to be in such a regular pattern, and I wouldn't expect the "ghost impression" to be as sharp.
<< <i>Is there anything else on the coin? Was it double struck? >>
Yes. There are elements of this coin that could be explained by more than one strike.
I'm not ready to put the coin in front of the forum jury quite yet. Rather, I'm taking some time to think through the oddities and building my a set of evidence to convince myself first.
I'm not that familiar with edge characteristics which led me to reach out for help here.
<< <i>Could this be a DDE (double die edge)??
what's the rest of the coin look like?
I can throw out guesses, but they'll be guesses without more information.
poorly made collar is another guess.
double struck coin is another guess.
but definitely NT
I'm of the opinion that what the OP is looking at is really nothing of note regardless of the explanation and I'd wager a guess that its a Seated Quarter.
The name is LEE!
Hoard the keys.
the point of asking about date/mm etc was so someone, in private if need be, could simply check other similar coin(s) and get an answer much faster, if that is your goal.
i understand about discretion.
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I do not know how collars are manufactured... but must obviously must have grooves cut or punched into it. Perhaps defective collar as MsMorrisine suggested; if bungled perhaps can have ridges. If so, there are probably more.
<< <i>Without additional info regarding the coin, all we do is guess based on the photo provided.
I do not know how collars are manufactured... but must obviously must have grooves cut or punched into it. Perhaps defective collar as MsMorrisine suggested; if bungled perhaps can have ridges. If so, there are probably more. >>
Standard procedure would be to make a brooching (sp?) tool by taking a steel rod the diameter of the finished coin and cutting reeds around the outside of one end.
Take a blank collar and drill a hole in it the diameter of the inner dimension of the brooching tool.
Force the brooching tool through the hole in the collar, which will cut the reeds out from the pre-drilled hole.
Use the collar. Erosion will form random lines on the inside of the collar that will leave raised lines on the edges of coins.
Make more collars. Erosion to the brooching tool can leave lines that get reproduced in negative form on the collars,
<< <i>
<< <i>Without additional info regarding the coin, all we do is guess based on the photo provided.
I do not know how collars are manufactured... but must obviously must have grooves cut or punched into it. Perhaps defective collar as MsMorrisine suggested; if bungled perhaps can have ridges. If so, there are probably more. >>
Standard procedure would be to make a brooching (sp?) tool by taking a steel rod the diameter of the finished coin and cutting reeds around the outside of one end.
Take a blank collar and drill a hole in it the diameter of the inner dimension of the brooching tool.
Force the brooching tool through the hole in the collar, which will cut the reeds out from the pre-drilled hole.
Use the collar. Erosion will form random lines on the inside of the collar that will leave raised lines on the edges of coins.
Make more collars. Erosion to the brooching tool can leave lines that get reproduced in negative form on the collars, >>
Interesting and certainly an area where my knowledge is thin. Again, I appreciate your input.
I'm fully aware that without the rest of the coin one can't form a holistic viewpoint. My hope was that in only showing this part of the coin I could get an unbiased opinion specifically NOT influenced by the rest of the coin, but I think that approach may not work for this example.
The real story might only be told through the sum of the parts. My intention is not to be overly secretive about the coin. Rather, I've challenged myself to first study and form my own opinion before soliciting more expert opinions. That was working well until I found something puzzling on the edge, at which point I turned to the forum.
I'll make another post showing the rest of the coin after I've had enough time to process it myself...stay tuned.
<< <i>
<< <i>Without additional info regarding the coin, all we do is guess based on the photo provided.
I do not know how collars are manufactured... but must obviously must have grooves cut or punched into it. Perhaps defective collar as MsMorrisine suggested; if bungled perhaps can have ridges. If so, there are probably more. >>
Standard procedure would be to make a brooching (sp?) tool by taking a steel rod the diameter of the finished coin and cutting reeds around the outside of one end.
Take a blank collar and drill a hole in it the diameter of the inner dimension of the brooching tool.
Force the brooching tool through the hole in the collar, which will cut the reeds out from the pre-drilled hole.
Use the collar. Erosion will form random lines on the inside of the collar that will leave raised lines on the edges of coins.
Make more collars. Erosion to the brooching tool can leave lines that get reproduced in negative form on the collars, >>
Thanks for the info, CaptHenway. I'm thinking your theory is the most likely scenario.