1795 Flowing hair dollar for the type set collection

Baley

After nearly 40 years of longing after the Redbook picture and lusting after many of the examples posted here and online, finally pulled the trigger on an example of the type







Apologies for seller's pics, will post better ones asap, but what's your opinion of the appearance and PCGS grade of this coin?



edit: grade posted near end of thread..

BryceM

Very nice coin with nothing distracting. Better photos would help rule out problems, but I see no reason this shouldn't grade.

BillJones

That is a very nice example, and I can't see any reason why it would not grade. My grade is VF-30, which it would have gotten back in the 1980s, but it wouldn't surprise me if it pulled an EF-40 now. I had one with adjustment marks that was a VF-25 IMO that I bought in the 1980s that NGC called EF-40. The PCGS graded coins I've seen looked similar. The adjustment marks made it harder to sell, but when I did I got between VF and EF money for it.

BustCuds

Very nice Flowing Hair Dollar

indeetlib

Congrats! An awesome type coin. Looks like a nice Fine to me (I voted F12). Is the mark in the left obverse field on the holder? Shouldn't affect the gradeability either way though.

mbogoman

Nice! You can't help but love these. My best guess is VF25 based on my own example. It seems to have a little less meat on it than my VF30, but mine also could have been knocked down a notch by the small gouge under Liberty's chin, so who knows, yours is pretty clean and could easily go 30...

ahopewell55

It's a two leaf which has a stronger obverse strike, so I vote Fine 15.

jclovescoins

vf 20

coinkat

I voted VF20 FWIW

Decent coin. I thought it was a little too flat to grade higher-

LoveMyLiberty

Waiting for the better pics.

BryceM

Baley, no disrespect, and I'm not saying anything negative about the coin, but I'm a little surprised by the answers so far. Maybe it's just the photos, but I'm seeing complete effacement of parts of the reverse rims & dentils, part of the lower wreath, and lettering near the rims. The obverse shows very little hair detail around the forehead and loss of dentils around the date. It's a fantastic coin, but I don't see it as VF. I would be delighted to be proven wrong.

LoveMyLiberty

PM sent.

BillJones

<< <i>Baley, no disrespect, and I'm not saying anything negative about the coin, but I'm a little surprised by the answers so far. Maybe it's just the photos, but I'm seeing complete effacement of parts of the reverse rims & dentils, part of the lower wreath, and lettering near the rims. The obverse shows very little hair detail around the forehead and loss of dentils around the date. It's a fantastic coin, but I don't see it as VF. I would be delighted to be proven wrong. >>



This one was a VF-25 back in the 1980s. NGC graded it EF-40, which I thought was too high, but after looking at other Flowing Hair dollars, I found it was not off the wall.

CoinJunkie

VF-something. I voted 20.

USMarine6

I like it as a 30 and see it in a straight holder

golden

20

AnkurJ

Looks nice but need better images. I voted F15. Here is an example I had for many years.

Baley

Sweet bell curve. Ya gotta love it when the grade guesses range from VG8 to VF35

tradedollarnut

Looks Fine to me! ;-)

jughead1893

20

jmski52

I'm going with 20. Nice, even wear & crust. Don't let Ricko near it.

roadrunner

I was nearly off the scale deciding between VG10 and Fine 12. I went with FINE 12. When I own flowing hairs, I always get a grade less than the next guy.

Rayman311

Looks like a nice looking FH! Voted it 20. Would like to see your photos when you get it. Congrats!

leothelyon

Where's the genuine, old cleaning, retone category?

jayPem

Hovered over the 20 button and the 15 button...voted 15, but I think 20 looks right

dizzlecc

nice coin

Baley

<< <i>Baley, no disrespect, and I'm not saying anything negative about the coin, but I'm a little surprised by the answers so far. Maybe it's just the photos, but I'm seeing complete effacement of parts of the reverse rims & dentils, part of the lower wreath, and lettering near the rims. The obverse shows very little hair detail around the forehead and loss of dentils around the date. It's a fantastic coin, but I don't see it as VF. I would be delighted to be proven wrong. >>



Never worry about disrespecting me about coins, or the coins themselves, they are what they are. I've noticed the posters who get beaten up around here are the ones that come on and say things like, Look at my coin, look how great it is, aren't I clever for buying it? and when people helpfully, say, You know it's been cleaned, right, they get all huffy and argumentative and things spiral from there.

I'll post better pictures when I get the coin in hand later in the week, I did break one of my own rules by posting a pic before I had it in hand, but since it's been mailed registered and is tracking, I'm pretty confident it will arrive. (now watch it go missing!) I wanted to post it this weekend and get feedback on the images I had to make my buy decision based upon, and thank all of you for voting and for you typed responses, very interesting.

Anyway, the coin is what it is, this is just about the appearance and grade level I wanted, and if folks have seen my other posts before, they know I prefer to buy coins that look more expensive than they are rather than less, and coins that will not lose value if cracked out, may even be worth more out of the plastic. I do find the wide range of grade estimates to be fascinating, very much like the guesses for this 1825 quarter were.

The mark in the left obverse field is on the coin

rays

I think it's a 30 could see it in a 35 holder. Imo there is much more detail than a Fine.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

I think your coin Rocks! I was the first vote at vf25 but I honestly don't know the series whatsoever....I hope she arrives safely and I look forward to seeing your pics and finding out the grade

scubafuel

Hi Baley, nice FH dollar! I see it as a VF25, and put it in the top third of those coins in terms of color and originality. The mark in the obverse field may or may not bother you when you see the coin in person. From the pics it seems toned in and not objectionable, but they're rather dark. Edges look good, and there do not look to be adjustment marks, which is great.

I did a search through the Heritage/Stacks archive before I bought my FH example, and anecdotally your coin is nicer than most there in that grade range. There are a TON of ugly FH dollars out there, including many that I don't think should be slabbed.

Good luck when it arrives! I'm looking forward to seeing your pics.

Matt

UPDATE: After looking at different strikes for different varieties, I'll change my guess on this one to F15. Tough coins to grade.

nwcoast

I think it's a beautiful coin with a great look to it (eye appeal).
I voted 20 though I'm no expert on this series.
I suspect you're going to crack it anyways and keep it raw!
As you said, it's strong either way.
I'd be stoked to have one of that quality in my collection.
Congratulations

halfhunter

Love it as a F-12 (voted) . . . Like it as a F-15 . . . Not enough meat for VF, IMHO.

OK. I'll go crawl back under my rock now . . .

HH

JohnnyCache

I'll throw my hat in the ring at F-15.

I think it has a very nice overall look about it.
On a favorable day at the graders perhaps it's VF-20.

Congratulations, it's a nice addition.

JC

jcping

Almost VF to me, F-15

AUandAG

Wholesome and VF20?

bob

3sidesofsilver

Hey Baley, remember posting this in response to my newp back in December?

"Beautiful, I'd love to have on just like it. A nice 1795 dollar is near the top of my want list."

Looks like your ship came in - congrats! I am thinking VG10 on this one. I like it!

Baley

Sure do! Your post triggered a renewed search for an example of the type, thanks! May upgrade it someday, VG for this look would probably be low, scubafuel is right, There are a TON of ugly FH dollars out there and that's at every grade level, scan ebay, even the slabbed "problem-free" ones.. mostly aren't

3sidesofsilver

Cool. I feel honored, really. Happy to give you that little nudge. You now own a neat little piece of American history. Just think for a minute - which of your friends actually owns anything 220 years old, and something George Washington himself could have carried around in his pocket? That to me is one reason I enjoy coin collecting so much. If coins could only talk, the stories they could tell...

HoledandCreative

Coin looks like a beauty from here. A lot of hair detail and very nice looking surfaces and color. If it had a hole in it, I'd say VF details.

Boosibri

Very nice coin! I voted F15.

The two people who who voted EF needs their eyes checked.

TopographicOceans

I voted 20

Baley

Thanks to all for your votes and comments, the response has been great and very interesting, as will the follow-up, no doubt



Here are some quick slab pictures, had to put this in the SDB upon arrival, hope to have time to take better (larger) pics soon



edit: but those with CoinFacts may be able to link or post the huge images (size of a pizza)

Here's a reduced version:

amwldcoin

WOW! I gave it a 15 but never imagined it would be a 12!

lkeigwin

You was robbed!
Lance.

golden

CharlotteDude

My guess is that it sure is a purty FH dollar!

MonsterCoinz

Very nice, I really want one. There is no TrueView available, just a CoinFacts image.

LoveMyLiberty

For those that have CoinFacts there is one of those gigantic images of the coin
in the catagory of 1795 Flowing Hair Dollars .

Baley

Thanks LML, we can see that there are a few scattered marks commensurate with the grade, and a few that lower the grade from an apparent 15-20 level, the "test mark" in the left obv field near star 5 was probably a scratch inflicted intentionally when the coin was a new and unfamiliar type. The mark at Liberty's mouth would be mentioned, and a few other hits and minor edge bumps. This is one of the two-leaf under wings variety, and this particular obverse has the E in Liberty punched over an R, and the R has a short stubby lower right arm (which was lengthened for the other marriage that employed this obverse). What I particularly liked about this coin was the separation along the jawline and temple hair, many of the type are just flat in those areas in this grade range.

BryceM

Baley,

Fantastic coin. Enjoy it. The newer, larger photos show it nicely. Overall, I think the grade is correct, with yours having a little better detail than some at this grade with the few little marks and bumps you noted netting it out to the F12 grade.

Grade aside, it has a very nice look, and is something that most collectors will never have a chance to own. Thanks for an interesting thread and an interesting discussion.

Barndog

Baley is cornering the market on very choice for grade early US material!