Forcing everyone to spend only by electronic means from an account held at a government-run bank would give the authorities far better tools to deal with recessions and economic booms
it needs to answer one question - ~$1T in cash vs. ~$17T in just gDp and the Fed manipulates reserve balances to affect short term rates, not the number of FRN outstanding.
I'm thinking it's going to be a bit more complicated than simply removing $1T in FRNs.
Would the lack of FRN's from 2000-2008 have kept the big banks from building otc derivatives from $200 TRILL to $1.1 QUAD? Would the shenanigans with Mortgage Backed Securities, Fannie and Freddie, AIG, WaMu, Country Wide, Bear Stearns, Lehman, etc. have not occurred with FRN's withdrawn from circulation? What % of people bought their homes or RE investments with cash? FRN's did not cause the boom and bust cycle of the 2000's. Any "alternative" investments I bought from 2000-2011 were pretty much done by check or a trading account. Didn't need cash. The cause of the boom and bust cycles are the big banks themselves....from over-lending followed by no lending. Governments always want more control. So eliminating cash would certainly be one way to do that.
Central Banks only need to look at their own "tools" (along with meddling governments) to find the causes of boom and bust cycles. ......the problem is not J6P (or Jean Claude 6P)
"Having everyone’s account at a single, central institution allows the authorities to either encourage or discourage people to spend. To boost spending, the bank imposes a negative interest rate on the money in everyone’s account – in effect, a tax on saving. Faced with seeing their money slowly confiscated, people are more likely to spend it on goods and services. When this change in behaviour takes place across the country, the economy gets a significant fillip."
No thanks, just another loss of freedom. I don't need any one else determining when I should spend. I like my money like I like my metal - in my hands.
Would be good for metals. Smart savers would purchase and personally hold precious metals with their government controlled electronic digits.
Historical note: The guy in that video is no other than Britain's infamous Gordon Brown.
Between 1999 and 2002 Brown sold 60% of the UK's gold reserves shortly before gold entered a protracted bull market, since nicknamed by dealers as Brown Bottom. The official reason for selling the gold reserves was to reduce the portfolio risk of the UK's reserves by diversifying away from gold. The UK eventually sold about 395 tons of gold over 17 auctions from July 1999 to March 2002, at an average price of about US$275 per ounce, raising approximately US$3.5 billion. By 2011, that quantity of gold would be worth over $19 billion, leading to Brown's decision to sell the gold being widely criticized.
It is said that because he was a team player at that time by bailing out some G-8 country's "gold problem" that he was later put into the Prime Minister slot from 2007-2010. Remember Gordon, the game plan is to buy low, sell high.
"Having everyone’s account at a single, central institution allows the authorities to either encourage or discourage people to spend. To boost spending, the bank imposes a negative interest rate on the money in everyone’s account – in effect, a tax on saving. Faced with seeing their money slowly confiscated, people are more likely to spend it on goods and services. When this change in behaviour takes place across the country, the economy gets a significant fillip."
No thanks, just another loss of freedom. I don't need any one else determining when I should spend. I like my money like I like my metal - in my hands.
Would be good for metals. Smart savers would purchase and personally hold precious metals with their government controlled electronic digits. >>
think of this, all your savings would need to be invested, even if it is in a money market. Or no matter what you spend short of 100%, it will be taxed for sitting there. Plus, who is going to spend 100%? How liquid will your "cash like" investments be ? Either you'll be earning 0% on a money market or a money market will be "taxed" too. Then there are the retirees who will be taxed to death, unless they get an exemption. (I wonder how many would retire early?)
On the taxed transaction side, (slowing spending), I'm already thinking of real estate transactions as an individual's biggest one time lump spend. This will need to be taxed, too! Why? The housing market is a big mover of the economy. Any home purchase just got taxed and that much harder to do. The car purchase? Harder. Net effect is savings will have to increase for necessities. Paying a tax on big ticket necessities is taking cash from investments & retirement funds.
The "let's get rid of cash" is the smoke and mirrors.
The real story here is "let's tax the ---- out of people."
DOA - just another pile of BS to sell a newspaper.
If cash is "illegal," that means essentially outlawed by the government, then it has no value any more. And keeping it like confederate money after the war wouldn't have done you much good.
Fiat was decreed into existence. It can be decreed out of existence. Poof, it's gone. Govt's can decree tangible assets valued by collectors, investors, and end-users as "outlawed," but they will trade in the black market just like gold did from 1933-1974 and booze did during prohibition. I guess if the people want to keep on trading FRN's after the govt has stopped endorsing them, they are free to do so. But, if I'm giving up something tangible like a carton of cigs, medicines, or even gold and silver, I want something tangible back (goods, services, etc.). No FRN's for me.
"Electronic money is an inclusive and convenient system, giving poor and rural sectors of an economy – where cash machines and bank branches may be few and far between and not all people have accounts – a tool for easy participation in the economy. "
That ignores that they might not have any savings, that's why they had no accounts. An empty debit card isn't much of a tool for participation in the economy. LOL
I remember what it was like during hurricane Sandy when the power was out 5 days. No electronic card readers were working and all the fools that lived off debit cards couldn't even buy a gallon of milk at the corner store.
Forcing every transaction through an electronic central banking system is a fascist government's wet dream. The article is pretty clear about how it would make manipulating people en masse that much easier, and that's the stated objective of the author. The dangers of this type thinking should be obvious to anyone who's read any history.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>I remember what it was like during hurricane Sandy when the power was out 5 days. No electronic card readers were working and all the fools that lived off debit cards couldn't even buy a gallon of milk at the corner store.
People with cash were mostly fine. >>
I'm there with ya. ATMs were useless...no electric. Local stores couldn't sell since the registers were dead. In an old Sherlock Holmes movie there's a quote...'Electricity is the Crown Prince of false security'.
<< I remember what it was like during hurricane Sandy when the power was out 5 days. No electronic card readers were working and all the fools that lived off debit cards couldn't even buy a gallon of milk at the corner store.
People with cash were mostly fine. >>
I'm there with ya. ATMs were useless...no electric. Local stores couldn't sell since the registers were dead. In an old Sherlock Holmes movie there's a quote...'Electricity is the Crown Prince of false security'.
FDR threatened people with 10 years in prison and a $10,000 (probably $100,000 in today's dollars) fine if they violated his gold confiscation order. Can you imagine this electrical outage scenario if cash had been banned for a few years prior? I don't think the grocery stores would last too long.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
"Electronic money is an inclusive and convenient system, giving poor and rural sectors of an economy – where cash machines and bank branches may be few and far between and not all people have accounts – a tool for easy participation in the economy. "
That ignores that they might not have any savings, that's why they had no accounts. An empty debit card isn't much of a tool for participation in the economy. LOL >>
those without these accounts... use cash. it makes it seem they are currently excluded.
In Greece a drastic reduction in cash is also being discussed in light of the economic crisis. Now any bill over €70 should be payable only by check or credit card – it will be illegal to pay in cash. .....discussed as in 2 drunk grumpy old men at the local pub?
Nothing brings greater fear than the unknown, yet nothing is more intriguing or pursued by humans. Long live humans.
<< <i>Forcing every transaction through an electronic central banking system is a fascist government's wet dream. The article is pretty clear about how it would make manipulating people en masse that much easier, and that's the stated objective of the author. The dangers of this type thinking should be obvious to anyone who's read any history. >>
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it needs to answer one question - ~$1T in cash vs. ~$17T in just gDp and the Fed manipulates reserve balances to affect short term rates, not the number of FRN outstanding.
I'm thinking it's going to be a bit more complicated than simply removing $1T in FRNs.
we'll see later tonight
Central Banks only need to look at their own "tools" (along with meddling governments) to find the causes of boom and bust cycles.
"Having everyone’s account at a single, central institution allows the authorities to either encourage or discourage people to spend. To boost spending, the bank imposes a negative interest rate on the money in everyone’s account – in effect, a tax on saving.
Faced with seeing their money slowly confiscated, people are more likely to spend it on goods and services. When this change in behaviour takes place across the country, the economy gets a significant fillip."
No thanks, just another loss of freedom. I don't need any one else determining when I should spend. I like my money like I like my metal - in my hands.
Would be good for metals. Smart savers would purchase and personally hold precious metals with their government controlled electronic digits.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Between 1999 and 2002 Brown sold 60% of the UK's gold reserves shortly before gold entered a protracted bull market, since nicknamed by dealers as Brown Bottom. The official reason for selling the gold reserves was to reduce the portfolio risk of the UK's reserves by diversifying away from gold. The UK eventually sold about 395 tons of gold over 17 auctions from July 1999 to March 2002, at an average price of about US$275 per ounce, raising approximately US$3.5 billion. By 2011, that quantity of gold would be worth over $19 billion, leading to Brown's decision to sell the gold being widely criticized.
It is said that because he was a team player at that time by bailing out some G-8 country's "gold problem" that he was later put into the Prime Minister slot from 2007-2010. Remember Gordon, the game plan is to buy low, sell high.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>From the proposal:
"Having everyone’s account at a single, central institution allows the authorities to either encourage or discourage people to spend. To boost spending, the bank imposes a negative interest rate on the money in everyone’s account – in effect, a tax on saving.
Faced with seeing their money slowly confiscated, people are more likely to spend it on goods and services. When this change in behaviour takes place across the country, the economy gets a significant fillip."
No thanks, just another loss of freedom. I don't need any one else determining when I should spend. I like my money like I like my metal - in my hands.
Would be good for metals. Smart savers would purchase and personally hold precious metals with their government controlled electronic digits. >>
think of this, all your savings would need to be invested, even if it is in a money market. Or no matter what you spend short of 100%, it will be taxed for sitting there. Plus, who is going to spend 100%? How liquid will your "cash like" investments be ? Either you'll be earning 0% on a money market or a money market will be "taxed" too. Then there are the retirees who will be taxed to death, unless they get an exemption. (I wonder how many would retire early?)
On the taxed transaction side, (slowing spending), I'm already thinking of real estate transactions as an individual's biggest one time lump spend. This will need to be taxed, too! Why? The housing market is a big mover of the economy. Any home purchase just got taxed and that much harder to do. The car purchase? Harder. Net effect is savings will have to increase for necessities. Paying a tax on big ticket necessities is taking cash from investments & retirement funds.
The "let's get rid of cash" is the smoke and mirrors.
The real story here is "let's tax the ---- out of people."
DOA - just another pile of BS to sell a newspaper.
<< <i>How about making ONLY cash legal? >>
The economy would hit a brick wall and die instantly.
Life revolves around credit and, in particular, revolving debt.
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Gresham's law baby .
If cash is illegal then it will trade above face value .
I know they can put 2+2 together on me, but i'm not trying to help them as much as possible.
Fiat was decreed into existence. It can be decreed out of existence. Poof, it's gone. Govt's can decree tangible assets valued by collectors, investors, and end-users as "outlawed," but they will trade in the black market just like gold did from 1933-1974 and booze did during prohibition. I guess if the people want to keep on trading FRN's after the govt has stopped endorsing them, they are free to do so. But, if I'm giving up something tangible like a carton of cigs, medicines, or even gold and silver, I want something tangible back (goods, services, etc.). No FRN's for me.
<< <i>How about making ONLY cash legal? >>
What a novel idea-only being able to spend what one can afford.
"Electronic money is an inclusive and convenient system, giving poor and rural sectors of an economy – where cash machines and bank branches may be few and far between and not all people have accounts – a tool for easy participation in the economy. "
That ignores that they might not have any savings, that's why they had no accounts. An empty debit card isn't much of a tool for participation in the economy. LOL
I remember what it was like during hurricane Sandy when the power was out 5 days. No electronic card readers were working and all the fools that lived off debit cards couldn't even buy a gallon of milk at the corner store.
People with cash were mostly fine.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I remember what it was like during hurricane Sandy when the power was out 5 days. No electronic card readers were working and all the fools that lived off debit cards couldn't even buy a gallon of milk at the corner store.
People with cash were mostly fine. >>
I'm there with ya.
ATMs were useless...no electric.
Local stores couldn't sell since the registers were dead.
In an old Sherlock Holmes movie there's a quote...'Electricity is the Crown Prince of false security'.
People with cash were mostly fine. >>
I'm there with ya.
ATMs were useless...no electric.
Local stores couldn't sell since the registers were dead.
In an old Sherlock Holmes movie there's a quote...'Electricity is the Crown Prince of false security'.
FDR threatened people with 10 years in prison and a $10,000 (probably $100,000 in today's dollars) fine if they violated his gold confiscation order. Can you imagine this electrical outage scenario if cash had been banned for a few years prior? I don't think the grocery stores would last too long.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>That can't be serious.
"Electronic money is an inclusive and convenient system, giving poor and rural sectors of an economy – where cash machines and bank branches may be few and far between and not all people have accounts – a tool for easy participation in the economy. "
That ignores that they might not have any savings, that's why they had no accounts. An empty debit card isn't much of a tool for participation in the economy. LOL >>
those without these accounts... use cash. it makes it seem they are currently excluded.
BS to sell newspapers.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Nothing brings greater fear than the unknown, yet nothing is more intriguing or pursued by humans. Long live humans.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Forcing every transaction through an electronic central banking system is a fascist government's wet dream. The article is pretty clear about how it would make manipulating people en masse that much easier, and that's the stated objective of the author. The dangers of this type thinking should be obvious to anyone who's read any history. >>
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The solution: BARTER BARTER BARTER.
<< <i>It would be simpler to force everyone's thoughts. Boom and bust are merely functions of human thoughts, which lead to actions. >>
Bad thoughts should be punishable @ $10,000/thought. Boom-Bust solved.
<< <i>This will not happen..... at least not in any of our lifetimes... or our children's lifetimes... Cheers, RickO >>
Yes it will. Your kids love this.
The sports card forum has entered the premises w/o knocking.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt