Clearly it was a mistake in judgement..the point about it being a sales pitch other than enthusiasm is spot on. A lot of us would do group rips with our awesome product, but disclosure would be paramount. Peace.
First, Tom is first rate in my book. I've talked to him on the phone about things and bought stuff from him. I trust him as much as any dealer I've ever dealt with. I hope this doesn't set Tom back too much with collectors. I doubt he endorsed Bounce's method of generating interest, although it would be cool to hear from Tom.
With that said, this break and the '86 Fleer bball break just feel slimy. It's like a friend acting like he's found you an opportunity and finding out he's behind the scenes just trying to make a buck off you. It just doesn't feel right. I agree when looking back at Bounce's posts in the '86 break, they just feel wrong. If I go to the used car lot, I know the fat slimy guy is trying to sell me something, so I filter our relationship through that. When I come here, I'm hoping that I'm talking with collecting peers. Not that I'm naive enough to think everyone here is just a great guy, but I give most people the benefit of the doubt. There's nothing wrong with trying to sell me something, just be clear that's your intention and we're all good. I also participated in the '86 break in part because of what seemed like fellow-collector enthusiasm. Turns out I wasn't enjoying a good time with friends, I was the sucker. If I need to, I can approach these boards solely from a cold/business perspective, but I'd really prefer not to have to do that. Also, just to be clear, going forward there's a place to sell things on these boards...it's called B/S/T.
My only issue was where they got the $3250 price tag for a 75 mini fasc.
Full disclosure...for the past few weeks I've been selling a lot of 75 mini fasc bbce wax boxes. Way before this mess started...average price was $2700...some a bit lower, some not much higher. But sold out the past week....I didn't want to be accused of having a self interest. So I've stayed completely out of it. Just reading and hoping the right thing would be done.
Meanwhile, I just didnt know who to trust...Bounce was negotiating for the last box and were only a hundred or so apart at 2700.While this break was being set up. Then someone stepped in and purchased my last box. Afterwards, I asked about where they were getting the 3250 price letting them know a much cheaper box could be found...bbce had one at 3000 and i know a lot of my buyers would have enjoyed a quick 10-15% flip and sold theirs. And that i was interested in participating in most boxes except the 75mini. due to their $90 a pack price tag. I thought that CU was being overcharged.
Bounce has repeatedly claimed that it wasn't his box, that it was toms. And he let Tom know. He wasn't here to make money. Fine. But it was one of theirs.
Facts are it just comes across as greedy, trying to line his pockets at CU members expense. I find charging 250-500 above market price is greedy and it comes across as this whole break was used just to sell their own inventory. This is def not how to earn trust.
1. There was no full disclosure of whose inventory it was. 2. They or he knew the going price and still was charging a nowhere near market price.....let alone how bbce used to give us a 10% below market. vs 10-20% markup. ....i think the whole spirit of a group break is the camaraderie, sharing the experience, sharing the poppage and results. ....im not against him or tom making a buck just try to be fair and let us know. Im ok with "Heres some of my inventory, heres the price and meanwhile lets have a group break."
Im also wondering if this continued, and Bounce bought my last box for 2700, what price it would have been sold to CU members for? Unfortunately thats what nondisclosure, the 86 Fleer break etc brings ...that where does it end? That any future venture is now suspect....Bounce has defended himself. Has Tom spoken and addressed this?
...Ive just been watching and hesitant to post but did so..1. I don't like being taken advantage of or others...And 2..at the urging of some well respected CU members..some last night said let it go, most others said that we have a right to know.
..Especially, knowing this and watching the whole thing unfold. Waiting for it to resolve in a positive way. And yet it still got worse day after day.
Interested in higher grade vintage cards. Aren't we all.
<< <i>My only issue was where they got the $3250 price tag for a 75 mini fasc.
Full disclosure...for the past few weeks I've been selling a lot of 75 mini fasc bbce wax boxes. Way before this mess started...average price was $2700...some a bit lower, some not much higher. But sold out the past week....I didn't want to be accused of having a self interest. So I've stayed completely out of it. Just reading and hoping the right thing would be done.
Meanwhile, I just didnt know who to trust...Bounce was negotiating for the last box and were only a hundred or so apart at 2700.While this break was being set up. Then someone stepped in and purchased my last box. Afterwards, I asked about where they were getting the 3250 price letting them know a much cheaper box could be found...bbce had one at 3000 and i know a lot of my buyers would have enjoyed a quick 10-15% flip and sold theirs. And that i was interested in participating in most boxes except the 75mini. due to their $90 a pack price tag. I thought that CU was being overcharged.
Bounce has repeatedly claimed that it wasn't his box, that it was toms. And he let Tom know. He wasn't here to make money. Fine. But it was one of theirs.
Facts are it just comes across as greedy, trying to line his pockets at CU members expense. I find charging 250-500 above market price is greedy and it comes across as this whole break was used just to sell their own inventory. This is def not how to earn trust.
1. There was no full disclosure of whose inventory it was. 2. They or he knew the going price and still was charging a nowhere near market price.....let alone how bbce used to give us a 10% below market. vs 10-20% markup. ....i think the whole spirit of a group break is the camaraderie, sharing the experience, sharing the poppage and results. ....im not against him or tom making a buck just try to be fair and let us know. Im ok with "Heres some of my inventory, heres the price and meanwhile lets have a group break."
Im also wondering if this continued, and Bounce bought my last box for 2700, what price it would have been sold to CU members for? Unfortunately thats what nondisclosure, the 86 Fleer break etc brings ...that where does it end? That any future venture is now suspect....Bounce has defended himself. Has Tom spoken and addressed this? >>
Yikes. This does not sit well with me. Bounce stated earlier in this thread that the 1975 Topps Mini FASC box in this break was his on consignment. It was being sold for $90/pack or $3,240/box. All the while, he's negotiating with you on the B/S/T board for the exact same thing (1975 Topps Mini FASC box) and offering you $2,600ish?
As for the 1986 Fleer break, I would have participated regardless because it was fun. However, when I pointed out the premium that was being charged on the "lottery" aspect within the thread, Bounce was quick to defend the price without ever pointing out that it was his product. That's a real bummer.
In full disclosure and to perhaps defend bounce in a way...he did state to me that he pointed out the price before the break. I imagine that was to Tom. But it stayed the same. So the box may have been his, his on consignment or Toms...im not sure of that or who set the $3240. Either way, whether he did tell Tom or not, one or both knew and still proceeded.
OPC's reputation has been building over the years. Bounce (David)..unfortunately the jury is now out. He came across as great in the beginning. Has Tom spoken out to set the record straight? I def would after all the work he has put into building his business.
Interested in higher grade vintage cards. Aren't we all.
<< <i> The OP opened this "group rip" with the slogan, "Who wants to break something with me?" when in actuality it meant, "Who wants to break something for me?" >>
I was wondering why I felt so put off by the actions of the OP - I mean, what difference does it make to the packs or the ripping if the OP discloses his vested interests or not?
But this quote above totally crystallizes it for me. Thanks Mullins.
<< <i>Bounce please do not attempt to start anymore threads pointing out OPC has stuff for sale, or for that matter that anyone has stuff for sale.
Shady isn't welcome here. >>
You have been banished! I just checked a few eBay sales and the FASC boxes in this group break are below completed sales prices. There are really some good prices on those.
<< <i>Bounce please do not attempt to start anymore threads pointing out OPC has stuff for sale, or for that matter that anyone has stuff for sale.
Shady isn't welcome here. >>
You have been banished! I just checked a few eBay sales and the FASC boxes in this group break are below completed sales prices. There are really some good prices on those. >>
<< <i>Bounce please do not attempt to start anymore threads pointing out OPC has stuff for sale, or for that matter that anyone has stuff for sale.
Shady isn't welcome here. >>
You have been banished! I just checked a few eBay sales and the FASC boxes in this group break are below completed sales prices. There are really some good prices on those. >>
The issue was not with the pricing, IMO. >>
I believe it is. OPC has built a reputation for years. He's the third party almost everyone complains that is required when any group break idea arises on these boards.I can be honest, I am too lazy right now to track a group break. Sure, anything can be run better but everyone has to start somewhere. I've participated in over 100 group breaks in the last 2 years. 98 of those are on blowout cards. I really cant say that I've taken part in one on this forum in that timeframe. The major reason is because the lack of breaks. There was a time when there was one every 2 to 3 months. $10K to $20K plus in sales.
OPC has the product, verified and certified the product and will ship the product. If the price isn't right, then don't participate. If the price is, then great!
Everyone is too caught up in the consignor aspect of this break. Sure, bounce could be transparent next time. Someone and anyone can organize it. Guess what, I doubt you'll see many hands interested in organizing. So good on him.
Product is made available,OPC has the product, verified and certified the product, product fairly priced,want lists filled and the product is shipped.
Yes, I'm a simple man.
I suppose I'm not hung up on someone attempting to sell their product to the masses at a fair price.
And for those that want Group Breaks on the B/S/T, you can't be hypocritical when BBCE Group Breaks are on here also.
<< <i>Bounce please do not attempt to start anymore threads pointing out OPC has stuff for sale, or for that matter that anyone has stuff for sale.
Shady isn't welcome here. >>
You have been banished! I just checked a few eBay sales and the FASC boxes in this group break are below completed sales prices. There are really some good prices on those. >>
The issue was not with the pricing, IMO. >>
I believe it is. OPC has built a reputation for years. He's the third party almost everyone complains that is required when any group break idea arises on these boards.I can be honest, I am too lazy right now to track a group break. Sure, anything can be run better but everyone has to start somewhere. I've participated in over 100 group breaks in the last 2 years. 98 of those are on blowout cards. I really cant say that I've taken part in one on this forum in that timeframe. The major reason is because the lack of breaks. There was a time when there was one every 2 to 3 months. $10K to $20K plus in sales.
OPC has the product, verified and certified the product and will ship the product. If the price isn't right, then don't participate. If the price is, then great!
Everyone is too caught up in the consignor aspect of this break. Sure, bounce could be transparent next time. Someone and anyone can organize it. Guess what, I doubt you'll see many hands interested in organizing. So good on him.
Product is made available,OPC has the product, verified and certified the product, product fairly priced,want lists filled and the product is shipped.
Yes, I'm a simple man.
I suppose I'm not hung up on someone attempting to sell their product to the masses at a fair price.
And for those that want Group Breaks on the B/S/T, you can't be hypocritical when BBCE Group Breaks are on here also. >>
When did Steve, one of his employees, and/or friends ever organize a set break or group rip on the forum?
<< <i>Bounce please do not attempt to start anymore threads pointing out OPC has stuff for sale, or for that matter that anyone has stuff for sale.
Shady isn't welcome here. >>
You have been banished! I just checked a few eBay sales and the FASC boxes in this group break are below completed sales prices. There are really some good prices on those. >>
The issue was not with the pricing, IMO. >>
I believe it is. OPC has built a reputation for years. He's the third party almost everyone complains that is required when any group break idea arises on these boards.I can be honest, I am too lazy right now to track a group break. Sure, anything can be run better but everyone has to start somewhere. I've participated in over 100 group breaks in the last 2 years. 98 of those are on blowout cards. I really cant say that I've taken part in one on this forum in that timeframe. The major reason is because the lack of breaks. There was a time when there was one every 2 to 3 months. $10K to $20K plus in sales.
OPC has the product, verified and certified the product and will ship the product. If the price isn't right, then don't participate. If the price is, then great!
Everyone is too caught up in the consignor aspect of this break. Sure, bounce could be transparent next time. Someone and anyone can organize it. Guess what, I doubt you'll see many hands interested in organizing. So good on him.
Product is made available,OPC has the product, verified and certified the product, product fairly priced,want lists filled and the product is shipped.
Yes, I'm a simple man.
I suppose I'm not hung up on someone attempting to sell their product to the masses at a fair price.
And for those that want Group Breaks on the B/S/T, you can't be hypocritical when BBCE Group Breaks are on here also. >>
You are 100% wrong. None of this had anything to do with OPC or Tom. OPC has never been mentioned during any of the previous group rips. The entire issue here was about disclosure. It had nothing to do with where the boxes came from or the pricing. James
Then WTH is the problem? Prices are up. Take it or leave it. If you are so concerned with who is organizing the Group Rip, then volunteer to organize it. I don't see the prices changing because of it. Everyone is so quick to head stomp and vote people off the island it amazes me.
<< <i>Then WTH is the problem? Prices are up. Take it or leave it. If you are so concerned with who is organizing the Group Rip, then volunteer to organize it. I don't see the prices changing because of it. Everyone is so quick to head stomp and vote people off the island it amazes me. >>
If you have read this entire thread and still don't know what the issue is, I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you. James
<< <i>Then WTH is the problem? Prices are up. Take it or leave it. If you are so concerned with who is organizing the Group Rip, then volunteer to organize it. I don't see the prices changing because of it. Everyone is so quick to head stomp and vote people off the island it amazes me. >>
If you have read this entire thread and still don't know what the issue is, I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.
<< <i>Then WTH is the problem? Prices are up. Take it or leave it. If you are so concerned with who is organizing the Group Rip, then volunteer to organize it. I don't see the prices changing because of it. Everyone is so quick to head stomp and vote people off the island it amazes me. >>
If you have read this entire thread and still don't know what the issue is, I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.
Bounce has mentioned in another thread that he hangs out or sets up with Tom. Here's the exact quote, "Looking forward to setting up again, although will miss hanging with Tom this go around. We'll see if I can survive and behave on my own." so, Bounce and Tom have known each other for a while and "hang[ed] out" together in person. There is some sort of established relationship between the two. This we do know.
Tom has been a good dealer to me and many on the boards. I have vouched for him many times here and elsewhere. Because of this, I have held back a lot of my thoughts throughout this thread. However, this is very difficult to do when there is complete silence.
But I would like an explanation from him about his level of involvement with the 1986 Fleer Basketball Set Break scam that took place.
I feel like the board, as a whole, deserves this explanation.
If Tom does not want to address the issue here then he should at least have Bounce come here and offer some sort of explanation.
Tom has been a good dealer to me and many on the boards. I have vouched for him many times here and elsewhere. Because of this, I have held back a lot of my thoughts throughout this thread. However, this is very difficult to do when there is complete silence.
But I would like an explanation from him about his level of involvement with the 1986 Fleer Basketball Set Break scam that took place.
I feel like the board, as a whole, deserves this explanation.
If Tom does not want to address the issue here then he should at least have Bounce come here and offer some sort of explanation.
Interesting thread and since I only participate in a handful of breaks, usually pack rips and not boxes, it doesnt really apply to me. I dont get the part about it being the OP's boxes or not....what does it matter where the boxes originated if they are good, to me it would be irrelevant.
Secondly, and this is the most hilarious part, is several years ago, the guy called BBG had a similar break and on this one, this person DID announce it was theirs...they sold the boxes for considerably (20% or so) more than what BBCE was selling them for at the time and nobody had a problem with that, because at the time, BBG was one of the "in crowd" and could sell anything for whatever they wanted and not be called out.
Honestly, I dont have a horse in this race, but there is an annoying tendency by some of the members here to throw the chum in the water and circle like sharks when something is going on with someone they dont necessarily like for whatever reason, then totally ignore or even approve of it when someone else that they like does the same thing.
Just an opinion
Edited to add: Didnt say it to start a debate, just hate seeing when something that could have been good, turns into something bad based on opinions/perceptions alone
Secondly, and this is the most hilarious part, is several years ago, the guy called BBG had a similar break and on this one, this person DID announce it was theirs...they sold the boxes for considerably (20% or so) more than what BBCE was selling them for at the time and nobody had a problem with that, because at the time, BBG was one of the "in crowd" and could sell anything for whatever they wanted and not be called out.
I don't ever recall this happening and have participated in virtually every group break here going back to 2006.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It's alive!!!! haha! Good point though, although I don't recall specifically, I am sure those prices today would be a fantastic deal. Since prices were brought up, BBCE has increased their buy prices(posted on their front page), I am going to go out on a limb and say that their sell prices have increased as well. I think the best deals in here are the FASC boxes. It doesn't take Steve Hart to know if a case is still factory sealed. Alas, I am broke as a joke!
<< <i>GO LIVE DATE AND TIME Product reservation can commence Sunday April 5th starting 8:00PM Eastern. Any reservations posted PRIOR TO THAT will be ignored, so please don’t jump the gun. We want everyone to have a fair shot at everything here.
1. If you have questions, let me know and I’ll do the best I can to answer or get the answer. If you have super detailed product questions or concerns, those should be directed to OPC.
2. If you reserve it, it is your responsibility to pay for it. Everyone will pay directly to OPC. >>
Comments
First, Tom is first rate in my book. I've talked to him on the phone about things and bought stuff from him. I trust him as much as any dealer I've ever dealt with. I hope this doesn't set Tom back too much with collectors. I doubt he endorsed Bounce's method of generating interest, although it would be cool to hear from Tom.
With that said, this break and the '86 Fleer bball break just feel slimy. It's like a friend acting like he's found you an opportunity and finding out he's behind the scenes just trying to make a buck off you. It just doesn't feel right. I agree when looking back at Bounce's posts in the '86 break, they just feel wrong. If I go to the used car lot, I know the fat slimy guy is trying to sell me something, so I filter our relationship through that. When I come here, I'm hoping that I'm talking with collecting peers. Not that I'm naive enough to think everyone here is just a great guy, but I give most people the benefit of the doubt. There's nothing wrong with trying to sell me something, just be clear that's your intention and we're all good. I also participated in the '86 break in part because of what seemed like fellow-collector enthusiasm. Turns out I wasn't enjoying a good time with friends, I was the sucker. If I need to, I can approach these boards solely from a cold/business perspective, but I'd really prefer not to have to do that. Also, just to be clear, going forward there's a place to sell things on these boards...it's called B/S/T.
jbox
Full disclosure...for the past few weeks I've been selling a lot of 75 mini fasc bbce wax boxes. Way before this mess started...average price was $2700...some a bit lower, some not much higher. But sold out the past week....I didn't want to be accused of having a self interest. So I've stayed completely out of it. Just reading and hoping the right thing would be done.
Meanwhile, I just didnt know who to trust...Bounce was negotiating for the last box and were only a hundred or so apart at 2700.While this break was being set up. Then someone stepped in and purchased my last box. Afterwards, I asked about where they were getting the 3250 price letting them know a much cheaper box could be found...bbce had one at 3000 and i know a lot of my buyers would have enjoyed a quick 10-15% flip and sold theirs. And that i was interested in participating in most boxes except the 75mini. due to their $90 a pack price tag. I thought that CU was being overcharged.
Bounce has repeatedly claimed that it wasn't his box, that it was toms. And he let Tom know. He wasn't here to make money. Fine. But it was one of theirs.
Facts are it just comes across as greedy, trying to line his pockets at CU members expense. I find charging 250-500 above market price is greedy and it comes across as this whole break was used just to sell their own inventory. This is def not how to earn trust.
1. There was no full disclosure of whose inventory it was.
2. They or he knew the going price and still was charging a nowhere near market price.....let alone how bbce used to give us a 10% below market. vs 10-20% markup.
....i think the whole spirit of a group break is the camaraderie, sharing the experience, sharing the poppage and results.
....im not against him or tom making a buck just try to be fair and let us know. Im ok with "Heres some of my inventory, heres the price and meanwhile lets have a group break."
Im also wondering if this continued, and Bounce bought my last box for 2700, what price it would have been sold to CU members for? Unfortunately thats what nondisclosure, the 86 Fleer break etc brings ...that where does it end? That any future venture is now suspect....Bounce has defended himself. Has Tom spoken and addressed this?
...Ive just been watching and hesitant to post but did so..1. I don't like being taken advantage of or others...And 2..at the urging of some well respected CU members..some last night said let it go, most others said that we have a right to know.
..Especially, knowing this and watching the whole thing unfold. Waiting for it to resolve in a positive way. And yet it still got worse day after day.
<< <i>Kind of like Amway... sure it's probably a great product, but poor salesmanship methods. >>
Best analogy yet. It's simply abuse of relationships.
<< <i>My only issue was where they got the $3250 price tag for a 75 mini fasc.
Full disclosure...for the past few weeks I've been selling a lot of 75 mini fasc bbce wax boxes. Way before this mess started...average price was $2700...some a bit lower, some not much higher. But sold out the past week....I didn't want to be accused of having a self interest. So I've stayed completely out of it. Just reading and hoping the right thing would be done.
Meanwhile, I just didnt know who to trust...Bounce was negotiating for the last box and were only a hundred or so apart at 2700.While this break was being set up. Then someone stepped in and purchased my last box. Afterwards, I asked about where they were getting the 3250 price letting them know a much cheaper box could be found...bbce had one at 3000 and i know a lot of my buyers would have enjoyed a quick 10-15% flip and sold theirs. And that i was interested in participating in most boxes except the 75mini. due to their $90 a pack price tag. I thought that CU was being overcharged.
Bounce has repeatedly claimed that it wasn't his box, that it was toms. And he let Tom know. He wasn't here to make money. Fine. But it was one of theirs.
Facts are it just comes across as greedy, trying to line his pockets at CU members expense. I find charging 250-500 above market price is greedy and it comes across as this whole break was used just to sell their own inventory. This is def not how to earn trust.
1. There was no full disclosure of whose inventory it was.
2. They or he knew the going price and still was charging a nowhere near market price.....let alone how bbce used to give us a 10% below market. vs 10-20% markup.
....i think the whole spirit of a group break is the camaraderie, sharing the experience, sharing the poppage and results.
....im not against him or tom making a buck just try to be fair and let us know. Im ok with "Heres some of my inventory, heres the price and meanwhile lets have a group break."
Im also wondering if this continued, and Bounce bought my last box for 2700, what price it would have been sold to CU members for? Unfortunately thats what nondisclosure, the 86 Fleer break etc brings ...that where does it end? That any future venture is now suspect....Bounce has defended himself. Has Tom spoken and addressed this? >>
Yikes. This does not sit well with me. Bounce stated earlier in this thread that the 1975 Topps Mini FASC box in this break was his on consignment. It was being sold for $90/pack or $3,240/box. All the while, he's negotiating with you on the B/S/T board for the exact same thing (1975 Topps Mini FASC box) and offering you $2,600ish?
As for the 1986 Fleer break, I would have participated regardless because it was fun. However, when I pointed out the premium that was being charged on the "lottery" aspect within the thread, Bounce was quick to defend the price without ever pointing out that it was his product. That's a real bummer.
OPC's reputation has been building over the years. Bounce (David)..unfortunately the jury is now out. He came across as great in the beginning. Has Tom spoken out to set the record straight? I def would after all the work he has put into building his business.
<< <i> The OP opened this "group rip" with the slogan, "Who wants to break something with me?" when in actuality it meant, "Who wants to break something for me?" >>
I was wondering why I felt so put off by the actions of the OP - I mean, what difference does it make to the packs or the ripping if the OP discloses his vested interests or not?
But this quote above totally crystallizes it for me. Thanks Mullins.
Best analogy yet. It's simply abuse of relationships. "
+1
Shady isn't welcome here.
<< <i>Bounce please do not attempt to start anymore threads pointing out OPC has stuff for sale, or for that matter that anyone has stuff for sale.
Shady isn't welcome here. >>
You have been banished! I just checked a few eBay sales and the FASC boxes in this group break are below completed sales prices. There are really some good prices on those.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bounce please do not attempt to start anymore threads pointing out OPC has stuff for sale, or for that matter that anyone has stuff for sale.
Shady isn't welcome here. >>
You have been banished! I just checked a few eBay sales and the FASC boxes in this group break are below completed sales prices. There are really some good prices on those. >>
The issue was not with the pricing, IMO.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Bounce please do not attempt to start anymore threads pointing out OPC has stuff for sale, or for that matter that anyone has stuff for sale.
Shady isn't welcome here. >>
You have been banished! I just checked a few eBay sales and the FASC boxes in this group break are below completed sales prices. There are really some good prices on those. >>
The issue was not with the pricing, IMO. >>
I believe it is. OPC has built a reputation for years. He's the third party almost everyone complains that is required when any group break idea arises on these boards.I can be honest, I am too lazy right now to track a group break. Sure, anything can be run better but everyone has to start somewhere. I've participated in over 100 group breaks in the last 2 years. 98 of those are on blowout cards. I really cant say that I've taken part in one on this forum in that timeframe. The major reason is because the lack of breaks. There was a time when there was one every 2 to 3 months. $10K to $20K plus in sales.
OPC has the product, verified and certified the product and will ship the product. If the price isn't right, then don't participate. If the price is, then great!
Everyone is too caught up in the consignor aspect of this break. Sure, bounce could be transparent next time. Someone and anyone can organize it. Guess what, I doubt you'll see many hands interested in organizing. So good on him.
Product is made available,OPC has the product, verified and certified the product, product fairly priced,want lists filled and the product is shipped.
Yes, I'm a simple man.
I suppose I'm not hung up on someone attempting to sell their product to the masses at a fair price.
And for those that want Group Breaks on the B/S/T, you can't be hypocritical when BBCE Group Breaks are on here also.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Bounce please do not attempt to start anymore threads pointing out OPC has stuff for sale, or for that matter that anyone has stuff for sale.
Shady isn't welcome here. >>
You have been banished! I just checked a few eBay sales and the FASC boxes in this group break are below completed sales prices. There are really some good prices on those. >>
The issue was not with the pricing, IMO. >>
I believe it is. OPC has built a reputation for years. He's the third party almost everyone complains that is required when any group break idea arises on these boards.I can be honest, I am too lazy right now to track a group break. Sure, anything can be run better but everyone has to start somewhere. I've participated in over 100 group breaks in the last 2 years. 98 of those are on blowout cards. I really cant say that I've taken part in one on this forum in that timeframe. The major reason is because the lack of breaks. There was a time when there was one every 2 to 3 months. $10K to $20K plus in sales.
OPC has the product, verified and certified the product and will ship the product. If the price isn't right, then don't participate. If the price is, then great!
Everyone is too caught up in the consignor aspect of this break. Sure, bounce could be transparent next time. Someone and anyone can organize it. Guess what, I doubt you'll see many hands interested in organizing. So good on him.
Product is made available,OPC has the product, verified and certified the product, product fairly priced,want lists filled and the product is shipped.
Yes, I'm a simple man.
I suppose I'm not hung up on someone attempting to sell their product to the masses at a fair price.
And for those that want Group Breaks on the B/S/T, you can't be hypocritical when BBCE Group Breaks are on here also. >>
When did Steve, one of his employees, and/or friends ever organize a set break or group rip on the forum?
<< <i>
When did Steve, one of his employees, and/or friends ever organize a set break or group rip on the forum? >>
Is bounce friends with OPC?
In other news, Buy Prices just went up on BBCE.
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<< <i>Bounce please do not attempt to start anymore threads pointing out OPC has stuff for sale, or for that matter that anyone has stuff for sale.
Shady isn't welcome here. >>
You have been banished! I just checked a few eBay sales and the FASC boxes in this group break are below completed sales prices. There are really some good prices on those. >>
The issue was not with the pricing, IMO. >>
I believe it is. OPC has built a reputation for years. He's the third party almost everyone complains that is required when any group break idea arises on these boards.I can be honest, I am too lazy right now to track a group break. Sure, anything can be run better but everyone has to start somewhere. I've participated in over 100 group breaks in the last 2 years. 98 of those are on blowout cards. I really cant say that I've taken part in one on this forum in that timeframe. The major reason is because the lack of breaks. There was a time when there was one every 2 to 3 months. $10K to $20K plus in sales.
OPC has the product, verified and certified the product and will ship the product. If the price isn't right, then don't participate. If the price is, then great!
Everyone is too caught up in the consignor aspect of this break. Sure, bounce could be transparent next time. Someone and anyone can organize it. Guess what, I doubt you'll see many hands interested in organizing. So good on him.
Product is made available,OPC has the product, verified and certified the product, product fairly priced,want lists filled and the product is shipped.
Yes, I'm a simple man.
I suppose I'm not hung up on someone attempting to sell their product to the masses at a fair price.
And for those that want Group Breaks on the B/S/T, you can't be hypocritical when BBCE Group Breaks are on here also. >>
You are 100% wrong. None of this had anything to do with OPC or Tom. OPC has never been mentioned during any of the previous group rips. The entire issue here was about disclosure. It had nothing to do with where the boxes came from or the pricing.
James
<< <i>Then WTH is the problem? Prices are up. Take it or leave it. If you are so concerned with who is organizing the Group Rip, then volunteer to organize it. I don't see the prices changing because of it. Everyone is so quick to head stomp and vote people off the island it amazes me. >>
If you have read this entire thread and still don't know what the issue is, I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.
James
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<< <i>Then WTH is the problem? Prices are up. Take it or leave it. If you are so concerned with who is organizing the Group Rip, then volunteer to organize it. I don't see the prices changing because of it. Everyone is so quick to head stomp and vote people off the island it amazes me. >>
If you have read this entire thread and still don't know what the issue is, I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.
James >>
+1
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<< <i>Then WTH is the problem? Prices are up. Take it or leave it. If you are so concerned with who is organizing the Group Rip, then volunteer to organize it. I don't see the prices changing because of it. Everyone is so quick to head stomp and vote people off the island it amazes me. >>
If you have read this entire thread and still don't know what the issue is, I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.
James >>
+1 >>
+2
Bounce has mentioned in another thread that he hangs out or sets up with Tom. Here's the exact quote, "Looking forward to setting up again, although will miss hanging with Tom this go around. We'll see if I can survive and behave on my own." so, Bounce and Tom have known each other for a while and "hang[ed] out" together in person. There is some sort of established relationship between the two. This we do know.
James
Tom has been a good dealer to me and many on the boards. I have vouched for him many times here and elsewhere. Because of this, I have held back a lot of my thoughts throughout this thread. However, this is very difficult to do when there is complete silence.
But I would like an explanation from him about his level of involvement with the 1986 Fleer Basketball Set Break scam that took place.
I feel like the board, as a whole, deserves this explanation.
If Tom does not want to address the issue here then he should at least have Bounce come here and offer some sort of explanation.
Tom has been a good dealer to me and many on the boards. I have vouched for him many times here and elsewhere. Because of this, I have held back a lot of my thoughts throughout this thread. However, this is very difficult to do when there is complete silence.
But I would like an explanation from him about his level of involvement with the 1986 Fleer Basketball Set Break scam that took place.
I feel like the board, as a whole, deserves this explanation.
If Tom does not want to address the issue here then he should at least have Bounce come here and offer some sort of explanation.
<< <i>I think it is time to put this thread to rest. Anything that needs to be mentioned has been mentioned already.
James >>
I agree. I logged in and saw this thread was still active and just thought "WTF, drop it dudes...."
Secondly, and this is the most hilarious part, is several years ago, the guy called BBG had a similar break and on this one, this person DID announce it was theirs...they sold the boxes for considerably (20% or so) more than what BBCE was selling them for at the time and nobody had a problem with that, because at the time, BBG was one of the "in crowd" and could sell anything for whatever they wanted and not be called out.
Honestly, I dont have a horse in this race, but there is an annoying tendency by some of the members here to throw the chum in the water and circle like sharks when something is going on with someone they dont necessarily like for whatever reason, then totally ignore or even approve of it when someone else that they like does the same thing.
Just an opinion
Edited to add: Didnt say it to start a debate, just hate seeing when something that could have been good, turns into something bad based on opinions/perceptions alone
I don't ever recall this happening and have participated in virtually every group break here going back to 2006.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>GO LIVE DATE AND TIME
Product reservation can commence Sunday April 5th starting 8:00PM Eastern. Any reservations posted PRIOR TO THAT will be ignored, so please don’t jump the gun. We want everyone to have a fair shot at everything here.
1. If you have questions, let me know and I’ll do the best I can to answer or get the answer. If you have super detailed product questions or concerns, those should be directed to OPC.
2. If you reserve it, it is your responsibility to pay for it. Everyone will pay directly to OPC. >>
Good advice.