Question on returning an Topps Yzerman RC PSA 10 item sold on ebay
Csmontie
Posts: 184 ✭✭
I bought a PSA 10 1984 Topps Steve Yzerman rookie. The scan was a pit foggy but being a PSA 10 I figured the card would look great. After receiving the picture of Steve is not crisp and there appears to be a stain of some sort in the upper right corner of the card. The seller does not accept returns and I honestly do not want this card. Whet are my options? How should I proceed with eBay and the seller to get a refund . Please advise thank you Craig
Working on 1961 1972 1973 topps sets
0
Comments
Sellers that have low res scans should know that over graded cards may come back.
http://www.psacard.com/PSASetRegistry/alltimeset.aspx?s=114092
Yzerman Link
Are you in Canada?
If you're in the US I'd reach out and see what is the best way to send it back for a refund and still be in compliance with the paypal/eBay return policy.
<< <i>Live in US .... Still a novice I guess I figured I'd it's a Psa 10 I would of thought it be free of issues and at s minimum the picture of Steve would be clearer .... Live and learn >>
It happens. You need to reach out before shipping it back. I believe it needs to have delivery confirmation. I don't have any experience sending returns to Canada, but others should be able to chime in.
can something seep into the holder, how airtight are they?
<< <i>Seems like "not as described" wins every time if you open a case. Sorry about the card. Would be a nice addition to the collection. >>
unless it's tampered with he got a PSA 10 Yzerman, just because he now doesn't like it doesn't mean he got something that was "not as described"
looks described pretty accurately to me, AND it was an auction so there's plenty of opportunity to factor in poor scans or whatever the case may be
he'll have to file a case, and there's a decent chance he will get his money back but this is the sort of thing that drives prices UP
if i was the seller, i'd fight this return to the bitter end
<< <i>if i was the seller, i'd fight this return to the bitter end >>
Which, in eBay-land, means about 5 minutes until you lose the case. As a seller, it's better to just let it go, not fight, and avoid getting a Neg AND being forced to take the return. It stinks as a seller, but nothing you can do.
"Craig As was stated in my earlier email, I do not accept returns on Graded Cards. This card was graded and authenticated by PSA, one of the most respected grading companies in the USA. It was certified a PSA 10 Gem Mint. Your personal grading theories do not come into play with this card. This card was not tampered with or exchanged with another card. The cases are tamper proof and cannot be re-sealed. My Ebay Seller Rating and feedback speak volumes.
Also here are some pics
If I'm being too picky plmk first time I spent this much on a card and I guessed it would of been free of what looks like mold and pencel marks and have a clear picture of Steve since PSA gave it a 10
See Greenish blemish to right of his face
See marks on white border almost looks like pencil/pen marks
See blackish dott on white border lower right
<< <i>Which, in eBay-land, means about 5 minutes until you lose the case. As a seller, it's better to just let it go, not fight, and avoid getting a Neg AND being forced to take the return. It stinks as a seller, but nothing you can do. >>
maybe…but did he get a PSA 10 or not? i think seller has a shot here, but might just let it go to not have the fight.
who cares about the negative even if it happens, if you're a good seller one or two doesn't hurt and the pursuit for perfection is silly. eventually any negs roll off anyway and you can't stop the crazies regardless of what you do.
i know this - i would block this buyer regardless.
no offense, OP, but you got what you paid for. if you had questions/concerns, you should have asked them before you bid.
Stevie Y -- the original "captain".
<< <i>maybe…but did he get a PSA 10 or not? >>
Let me be clear ... I'm not trying to say how it should be. There is a very reasonable argument that there should not be returns on graded cards because, as you said, what was purchased was a "PSA 10 Yzerman" and that was exactly what was received.
I am just saying how eBay does it. With the pictures that were presented by the OP, and probably even without them (just the statement + grainy pics), eBay will force a return as "SNAD". And, they'll make the seller refund the purchase price AND pay for the OP to return the card to them, so they'll end up with a net-loss. That's just a fact.
Given that, given the certainty of a return, avoid the neg. True, a single neg is no sweat, but it's not GOOD. It can't help. Why spend the energy fighting a losing cause and take the small but real hit to your reputation?
Csmontie - please don't think i'm "against" you, i guess in some ways as a seller i am against you in this case
From your scans, it's pretty clear to me this thing should have never made it into a 10 case, but alas it did. the "pencil marks" are just ink smear from the black line borders, and the other stuff looks like regular "print defects" to me, which is probably how this should have graded out - a PSA 9(PD).
anyway, good luck with getting your money back.
<< <i>Some random thoughts:
1) The OP should not be posting the seller's legal name in a public forum. That is poor form.
2) The centering alone would have kept me from bidding on it, especially considering how relatively easy it is to come across a better example of this issue.
3) To CW, the OPC version costs a LOT more. >>
Sellers name removed I never saw it when I cut and pasted his response
<< <i>There is a very reasonable argument that there should not be returns on graded cards because, as you said, what was purchased was a "PSA 10 Yzerman" and that was exactly what was received.
>>
Or, you could say he purchased a GEM MINT Yzerman, and that is NOT what he received.
How can that be technically true if Ebay allows sellers to state "seller does not accept ........ "
I am looking at purchasing a lot of cards described as near mint mt. If they are in that condition then it is a good purchase. However, if I buy them and they are all on the weak side of nmt, would I have any trouble with Ebay supporting my decision to return?
The issue is that buyers can functionally get a refund by opening a "item significantly not as described" case. If they win, the buyer must take the item back, issue a refund, and pay for return shipping. EBay also almost always sides with the buyer in such cases. In fact, I've never heard them siding with the seller in a dispute over sports cards (I'd like to hear if someone has either won as the seller or lost as the buyer and what happened).
In the example you posed (condition discrepancy), the answer is no, you would have absolutely no trouble with a return.
And, none of this even starts to get to the issue of credit card chargebacks, which give the buyer even more recourse if eBay did choose not to side with them...
I agree all of what Casey just said is true.
I've had a couple people over the years pull the ol' switcheroo and claim a different raw card that they already owned was the one I sent, when mine was better and their other copy was in worse condition. Buyer still wins in those cases, and because of that I don't sell much raw stuff on ebay anymore as opposed to graded. Fortunately though, the vast majority of buyers are too honest to try that scam.
Dump it on eBay and recoupe some or all your money and move on that's what most would do.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>3) To CW, the OPC version costs a LOT more. >>
Good point and well taken. I guess I'd suggest, as an alternative, maybe a PSA 9 OPC example, since a PSA 10 is big bucks. I do understand that collectors love their PSA 10s.
Ultimately, I hope the buyer is satisfied in the end and can resolve this, and he has good taste in cards.
<< <i>
<< <i>Dump it on eBay and recoupe some or all your money and move on that's what most would do. >>
And make sure to use an even fuzzier images to recapture as much a possible. Return the card Signature Required if possible but for sure w/ tracking. When the dust settles, neg the seller for being so unaccommodating and opportunistic. Make sure when you file to claim Seller Not As Described and point out the flaws that you can't see due to poor images. You likely have credit card protection too. >>
what the? no, don't multiply the shadiness. or maybe the above was sarcasm, can't tell. either way, just BIN it at 249 with a clear scan and call it a day. You probably would have sold it already had you listed it with the 10% off ebay bucks promotion. Although I empathize with your unhappiness, it's not the seller's fault that you don't like this particular 10.
It's a PSA 10 and sell it as a PSA 10! Save me with the yeah with a fuzzier scan and the
Other crap that you say to do. I see nothing wrong with selling it with a good scan.
Just because you bought a PSA card that you didn't agree with the grade assigned that's not the original
sellers problem so why should he have to deal with the returns and refunds?
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
Would let the seller know about a bump and the money it is worth now right?
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
<< <i>How is it shady selling a PSA graded card? Why is it bad to put it on EBay and sell it?
It's a PSA 10 and sell it as a PSA 10! Save me with the yeah with a fuzzier scan and the
Other crap that you say to do. I see nothing wrong with selling it with a good scan.
Just because you bought a PSA card that you didn't agree with the grade assigned that's not the original
sellers problem so why should he have to deal with the returns and refunds? >>
I'd agree with you if every PSA card was the same grade for grade.
And in what world are returns not a common part of doing business? Don't want to deal with refunds set up at a local card show. Or at least learn how to scan a card properly.
You purchased a PSA 10. The slab was not compromised and PSA gave their opinion. You agreed with it buy bidding the going market price.
I would be very annoyed if I got an email from a buyer of a card that said I don't like this particular PSA 10.
Personally I think you should have to eat it and try and sell the card and take whatever outcome occurs.
I can see both sides. As a seller, though, just take the card back. It's a minor, minor bother. Relist it and you'll sell it again. Little harm, little foul, at most.
<< <i>Jackstraw--the issue is that not all PSA 10s are the same. There are big variances within the grade. So, it's not really the case that "you got what you paid for - you bought a 10, you got a 10". Arguably, the OP thought he was buying a PSA 10 Yzerman that did not have surface mold based on the images available. If so, item not as described.
I can see both sides. As a seller, though, just take the card back. It's a minor, minor bother. Relist it and you'll sell it again. Little harm, little foul, at most. >>
Sounds like a buyer vs PSA issue to me? As a seller I would fight this tooth and nail sorry you got a PSA 10..
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
However I also agree with Casey. Unfortunately, the seller has no choice and has to accept this return, even if that's complete B.S.
<< <i>Jackstraw--the issue is that not all PSA 10s are the same. There are big variances within the grade. So, it's not really the case that "you got what you paid for - you bought a 10, you got a 10". Arguably, the OP thought he was buying a PSA 10 Yzerman that did not have surface mold based on the images available. If so, item not as described.
I can see both sides. As a seller, though, just take the card back. It's a minor, minor bother. Relist it and you'll sell it again. Little harm, little foul, at most. >>
Agreed. It's not like the guy cracked the card out or anything. The amount of time you waste going back and forth is really not worth it, imo. The card also may be a PSA 10, but if it was improperly stored or there is moisture/mold on the card, it's obviously not a 10 anymore even if it's still holdered.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I do have a couple of questions to all of those posting to this thread that are siding with the seller or telling me to eat it and resell ... You're telling me after getting this card in hand you wouldn't of had an issue with it? Or if looking at it live you would of still bought because of its PSA 10 rating? My guess is all of you would have an issue with it and after looking at it live you would of said the same as I would "Thanks but I will pass".
I agree that I should of asked more questions before bidding, but assumed that a PSA 10 would not look like this card, I havnt bought many graded cards before I believe this is maybe my 4th PSA 10 that I have bought and those 4 all look like a PSA 10. What I have learned from this is be more patient, ask for better pictures and only bid on stuff with a return policy.
scenario goes I will leave it alone.
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
Anyone know how that would play out?
<< <i>I was under the impression that PWCC didn't accept returns for buyers remorse. >>
That's right. They say they do NOT offer a no-questions-asked return policy.
We're talking about a SNAD case here, not a return. For sellers who offer returns, as a buyer, you just say "I don't want this" and don't even have to state a reason. For SNAD, you have to prove your case, but that is extremely easy to do in the Court of eBay.
It's easy to get the two confused because they have essentially identical results. The one difference is that in a return, the buyer usually pays return shipping. For SNAD, eBay makes the seller pick that up.
EDIT: If you're wondering what happens when the buyer says "no returns" but loses a SNAD case, well, they take the card back and pay for return shipping and usually get a Neg. Such seller policies are largely aspirational, trying to create an implicit contract with buyers before they bid, or to deter attempts at returns from novice buyers. There's nothing you can do as a seller against a determined and experienced buyer who wants a return.
Next time I'd recommend asking the seller to upgrade the crap scan prior to, or mosey on down the road. Otherwise you run the risk of becoming immersed in a transaction that turns out to be more of a bane than a boon.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
<< <i>I do have a couple of questions to all of those posting to this thread that are siding with the seller or telling me to eat it and resell ... You're telling me after getting this card in hand you wouldn't of had an issue with it? Or if looking at it live you would of still bought because of its PSA 10 rating? My guess is all of you would have an issue with it and after looking at it live you would of said the same as I would "Thanks but I will pass". >>
You thought you were buying a perfect card; the seller was selling a PSA 10. In your opinion, it was not a perfect card, but the seller did send you a PSA 10 as promised. Seller could have better customer service and accept refunds, this is true. However, you seem to be of the opinion that he be obligated to refund based upon your subjective assessment over-ruling that of PSA. Seen from this perspective, it's not too difficult to side with the seller.
Reselling and moving on is the play here. Worst-case scenario, you might be out $20 or so on ebay fees in exchange for gaining the valuable lesson (as others say here too) that not all PSA 10s are created equal. Sounds like a heck of a bargain to me.
Sorry, it seems like this is a problem with the grading of the card and not the seller. If this card looked like this when it was graded, then there is an obvious issue with the grader and PSA should "BUY" the card back from the buyer and eat the money and tell their graders to not give PSA 10's for cards with mold.
That said.....there should be NO RETURNS PERIOD on graded cards unless the case has been proven to be tampered with
<< <i>You thought you were buying a perfect card; the seller was selling a PSA 10. In your opinion, it was not a perfect card, but the seller did send you a PSA 10 as promised. >>
Everyone seems to use the term "PSA 10", but it says "GEM MINT 10" on the label and in the auction title. Is the card gem mint? Did the seller send a gem mint card as promised?
<< <i>Everyone thanks for your opinion on the matter. I feel that anything sold online should be allowed to be returned. Why? Because the scans although they show a decent photo of the card can in some instances wash out areas of a certain card that if you were buying it live face to face you would not of bought it. If I saw this card live I would of said thank you but I will pass. None of the defect in the photos are visible in the scan, yes its graded a PSA 10 but as others have mentioned should of been a PSA 9.
I do have a couple of questions to all of those posting to this thread that are siding with the seller or telling me to eat it and resell ... You're telling me after getting this card in hand you wouldn't of had an issue with it? Or if looking at it live you would of still bought because of its PSA 10 rating? My guess is all of you would have an issue with it and after looking at it live you would of said the same as I would "Thanks but I will pass".
I agree that I should of asked more questions before bidding, but assumed that a PSA 10 would not look like this card, I havnt bought many graded cards before I believe this is maybe my 4th PSA 10 that I have bought and those 4 all look like a PSA 10. What I have learned from this is be more patient, ask for better pictures and only bid on stuff with a return policy. >>
A lot to get to here, so let me start with the most important: "of" is not an accepted substitution for "have." For example, it should be "would not HAVE" and "should HAVE." For the latter, "should've" is an acceptable substitute.
Now that that is out of the way, I don't think any of us who are saying you shouldn't be allowed to return the card are saying we would be happy with the card. However it's not the seller's fault that your subjective opinion doesn't agree with PSA's subjective opinion. Any reasonable adult should understand that there is inherent risk in buying an item based only on crappy photos. If you choose not to pass on buying the card, and there are features of the card that you don't notice until it's delivered, this is largely to be expected. At that point, you've made an error in judgement. Accept that responsibility. Whether you choose to keep the card or flip it is up to you. Again, this is not to say you should be happy to own the card. However you - and you alone! - made the decision to spend hundreds of dollars on something without clear photos of the item.
Re-read your "if I saw this card live" sentence. There's your solution. For future big purchases, perhaps you should only make them in person.
I'm still wondering why only a few people are calling out PSA? This card is not a PSA 10 and the best solution is for PSA to buy it back and remove from circulation.