Safe Ebay Buying ?
Driggs
Posts: 23 ✭
I'm a newbie to the coin world, and I'm trying to figure out how to safely buy on ebay auctions.
If the coin is slabbed and you see the cert # matches the PCGS description what are the chances that it isn't a legit coin?
What steps should I take to make sure the coin is real?
I've read several coin books, and I have several of the reference guides to compare the pics of the coin to the real coins. I've been buying some coins, and I'm not worried about not receiving the coins (ebay guarantees, etc.). But I'm looking at higher priced purchases, and I want to be wise about my approach.
If the coin is slabbed and you see the cert # matches the PCGS description what are the chances that it isn't a legit coin?
What steps should I take to make sure the coin is real?
I've read several coin books, and I have several of the reference guides to compare the pics of the coin to the real coins. I've been buying some coins, and I'm not worried about not receiving the coins (ebay guarantees, etc.). But I'm looking at higher priced purchases, and I want to be wise about my approach.
0
Comments
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
You will be protected.
Stick to reputable coin dealers, that have enough expertise on staff to spot counterfeits. Some of these expert dealers sell on Ebay. Many Ebay sellers don't have enough expertise to authenticate, and I would tend to shy away from them.
Just as there are levels of sophistication with fake coins, it is the same with fake slabs. The crude ones can be spotted from a photo. The better ones likely need a closer in hand examination.
<< <i>Ebay is an awesomely safe place for buyers.
You will be protected. >>
This!
<< <i>If the coin is slabbed and you see the cert # matches the PCGS description what are the chances that it isn't a legit coin? What steps should I take to make sure the coin is real? >>
If you've done all your checks and still aren't sure, post a link to this board and get our opinion. There are some very knowledgeable people on this forum, and most would be happy to tell you why a coin or slab (or both) are fake.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>My guess is that millions of dollars worth of fake coins in fake slabs, or real coins in a fake slab (next grade higher) are likely moved every month on Ebay. Less than 5% of ebay buyers can authenticate against even a mid-level fake, much less a high quality fake coin. >>
eBay is the exact opposite of this. Buy away, like I have, for 17 years.
Nearly every pcgs slabbed listing on ebay is of a real coin in a real holder, it's just that the number of fakes in fake holders has been increasing and are it is hard to get them off ebay.
Counterfeit Detection 100: beginners (and experienced, too) - FREE! - open 24/7/365 - Learn at your own pace - World Too
keep a sharp eye out for detailed differences and you'll begin to spot the fake slabs easily. However, there have been a very rare few fakes in real slabs. So, know your coins first.
<< <i>Do like me, buy widgets which aren't worth faking. Problem solved! >>
widgets are also counterfeited.
there is a site with every usa type counterfeited.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ebay is an awesomely safe place for buyers.
You will be protected. >>
This! >>
This +100
My recommendation is to buy from sellers that offer a no questions asked return policy. Make sure you read the return policy well before you bid as we just had a recent thread on a seller that slipped in a no return on raw coins right after the accept returns statement. Ebay is a great venue to find coins you want and reputable members here have coins for sale there, many have links in their sig line just watch for them. The other thing I would recommend is to turn on your Private Messages so you can talk out of the threads. Lastly Welcome to the board, may you enjoy your time here, do much learning, don't be afraid to ask questions. This can be a bit of a tough place but it is the best place to get answers regarding coins, period. Whoops don't forget about the BST also as it is a great place to meet sellers and please communicate with them through Private messages so as not to bump listing unnecessarily.
<< <i>
<< <i>My guess is that millions of dollars worth of fake coins in fake slabs, or real coins in a fake slab (next grade higher) are likely moved every month on Ebay. Less than 5% of ebay buyers can authenticate against even a mid-level fake, much less a high quality fake coin. >>
eBay is the exact opposite of this. Buy away, like I have, for 17 years. >>
How do you know you haven't bought any fakes? Have you ever taken a single live, in person course on authentication? Or is all your education second and third hand from books, videos and the Internet? The good counterfeiters have read the exact same books, watched the same exact videos, read the exact same websites. A novice has zero chance against even a mid-level fake. Yes, crude fake slabs can be spotted from photos. Good fakes can't. A good fake slab with a real coin inside at a higher grade will likely fool 98% of those on this forum.
I attend a local coin club. The average attendance is 30 to 40 people. My opinion is that there isn't a single person there qualified to authenticate against a high quality fake. Not one. There are a lot of life long collectors, some are part time dealers. These are collectors that see lots of live coins every month, not images. Even so, not a single one is qualified as an authenticator. Most ebayers, both buyers and sellers, are a lot lower in skill level than the smart guys at the local coin club.
My opinion is that Ebay is a place full of land mines. When folks go to sell they may find some unhappy news. Say 1% of the collector coins being offered are fakes. If a person buys a coin a month, in two years they have about a 25% chance of getting stuck. That's pretty poor odds to me, but others obviously have a different opinion.
Check the sellers feedback as some with low numbers are more likely to have a fake. And don't buy anything from outside the US.
I'm certain major dealers are 100% authentic.
You have the eBay Money Back Guarantee, so you can return any item that is not genuine.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>My guess is that millions of dollars worth of fake coins in fake slabs, or real coins in a fake slab (next grade higher) are likely moved every month on Ebay. Less than 5% of ebay buyers can authenticate against even a mid-level fake, much less a high quality fake coin. >>
eBay is the exact opposite of this. Buy away, like I have, for 17 years. >>
How do you know you haven't bought any fakes? Have you ever taken a single live, in person course on authentication? Or is all your education second and third hand from books, videos and the Internet? The good counterfeiters have read the exact same books, watched the same exact videos, read the exact same websites. A novice has zero chance against even a mid-level fake. Yes, crude fake slabs can be spotted from photos. Good fakes can't. A good fake slab with a real coin inside at a higher grade will likely fool 98% of those on this forum.
I attend a local coin club. The average attendance is 30 to 40 people. My opinion is that there isn't a single person there qualified to authenticate against a high quality fake. Not one. There are a lot of life long collectors, some are part time dealers. These are collectors that see lots of live coins every month, not images. Even so, not a single one is qualified as an authenticator. Most ebayers, both buyers and sellers, are a lot lower in skill level than the smart guys at the local coin club.
My opinion is that Ebay is a place full of land mines. When folks go to sell they may find some unhappy news. Say 1% of the collector coins being offered are fakes. If a person buys a coin a month, in two years they have about a 25% chance of getting stuck. That's pretty poor odds to me, but others obviously have a different opinion. >>
So if this is the case, everyone should stop buying coins everywhere. It makes no difference if it is on eBay, your local shop, an auction, wherever.
A side point. The only counterfeit coins I ever bought came from dealers in MN. One was a seated dollar and one was a Trade dollar. They didn't have the slightest clue they were fake, and I found out only after I got home and really looked them over, including weighing, etc. One of the fools would not take his back. You will not have that problem on eBay.
There have been those who sold common coins for feedback then started listing the fakes.
Know your coins, know your dealer, know your slabs are all good advice.
<< <i>
<< <i>Do like me, buy widgets which aren't worth faking. Problem solved! >>
widgets are also counterfeited.
there is a site with every usa type counterfeited. >>
Yes, even low value ($10 or less) foreign minors, low value Civil War tokens, and other low value items are being faked. Why? There is money to be made, that's why. A fake might cost 20 cents to turn out (plus metal cost) and even if sold for $5, that's a huge percentage profit.
If so many folks think the fakes are not an issue, why do you think the grading companies are doing so much to combat the problem? From the sniffer, to imaging, to newer and better holograms. If not Ebay, where do folks think the thousands of fakes slabs are being moved?
Put a mid-level quality fake slab from a popular coin series, with a BIN at 30% below fair market Ebay auction realized price, and some one is going to swoop it up in a few hours, well before it gets reported. If the buyer is a novice, they have way less than a 1% of having enough expertise to spot the fake. Return policy is useless for most ebay buyers, because most do not have access to an authenticator. So stop with that idea. If the 1% does happen, the seller can apologize, accept the return and do the refund, but that's going to be less than 1% of their sales, even if 100% of their coins are fakes. If the scammer is smart, they will mix in a large percentage of real coins being sold, so they can hide under the excuse that they didn't know. Add in say 20% fakes, and that's an extra 20% in profit.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>My guess is that millions of dollars worth of fake coins in fake slabs, or real coins in a fake slab (next grade higher) are likely moved every month on Ebay. Less than 5% of ebay buyers can authenticate against even a mid-level fake, much less a high quality fake coin. >>
eBay is the exact opposite of this. Buy away, like I have, for 17 years. >>
How do you know you haven't bought any fakes? Have you ever taken a single live, in person course on authentication? Or is all your education second and third hand from books, videos and the Internet? The good counterfeiters have read the exact same books, watched the same exact videos, read the exact same websites. A novice has zero chance against even a mid-level fake. Yes, crude fake slabs can be spotted from photos. Good fakes can't. A good fake slab with a real coin inside at a higher grade will likely fool 98% of those on this forum.
I attend a local coin club. The average attendance is 30 to 40 people. My opinion is that there isn't a single person there qualified to authenticate against a high quality fake. Not one. There are a lot of life long collectors, some are part time dealers. These are collectors that see lots of live coins every month, not images. Even so, not a single one is qualified as an authenticator. Most ebayers, both buyers and sellers, are a lot lower in skill level than the smart guys at the local coin club.
My opinion is that Ebay is a place full of land mines. When folks go to sell they may find some unhappy news. Say 1% of the collector coins being offered are fakes. If a person buys a coin a month, in two years they have about a 25% chance of getting stuck. That's pretty poor odds to me, but others obviously have a different opinion. >>
So if this is the case, everyone should stop buying coins everywhere. It makes no difference if it is on eBay, your local shop, an auction, wherever.
A side point. The only counterfeit coins I ever bought came from dealers in MN. One was a seated dollar and one was a Trade dollar. They didn't have the slightest clue they were fake, and I found out only after I got home and really looked them over, including weighing, etc. One of the fools would not take his back. You will not have that problem on eBay. >>
So basically, it seems that you have some book knowledge, but no real expertise. It seems that you aren't a qualified authenticator, and would not volunteer your services as such for a local coin club auction or charity event or similar. Perhaps you have read the books, watched the videos. It seems that for the most part, you are just blowing smoke, about your history of safe coin buying. You might be correct, that all the coins you have bought are real, but you aren't an expert. There is some chance that some small percentage of the coins you bought from Ebay are high quality fakes, perhaps in fake slabs. These high quality fakes will only be detected when an expert authenticator looks at them.
I think I can rest my case, if you a veteran collector, of 17 or more years can't be sure, how can a novice be sure? Return policy? Zero value to someone with no expertise.
options:
1) if they have a lot of items up, ask here if the seller is known and trustworthy.
2) use the advanced search here, or google, to check the name and see if there are any threads on the seller
3) ask after the coin is in hand if it is not counterfeit (asking before it is in hand can lead to some people messaging the seller and working out a better deal before you get it)
<< <i>I think I can rest my case, if you a veteran collector, of 17 or more years can't be sure, how can a novice be sure? Return policy? Zero value to someone with no expertise. >>
The only thing you should rest is yourself, as in give it a rest.
However, from your question about chances of getting a fake TPG holdered coin I question if you should be buying coins period. Investing in numismatic material requires being decisive and researching your area (taking responsibility to do your homework).
I would suggest attending a coin show first, picking up necessary research materials, and scouting around the bourse floor to see what interests you and is in your comfort zone that you can make a buying decision on a site seen basis. Visit with the dealers who specialize in an area that interests you and start looking at coins. American Eagle Silver Eagle Bullion Coins may be a good place to start. Subscribe to a publication like Coin World or Numismatic News to expand the scope of your education. Take advantage of all the videos and information available at the PCGS website. David Halls reports, Don Willis video on Coin Facts.
1. Whether its a small or big ticket coin does not matter - it all adds up. Big ticket coins can be very risky and outrageously marked up.
2. Buy the book before the coin
3. There is no Santa Claus in Numismatics.
4. Its your responsibility to develop your investment strategy, do research, and then budget accordingly. No one is going to hold your hand.
5. Subscribe to Coin Facts if it fits your budget.
6. A subscription to CW Trends monthly price edition at $19.95 a year is highly recommended. Numismatic News is also a good publication.
7. Its easier to buy coins than sell them. If you ever progress to setting up at shows, stay behind your table and sell on Saturday, then buy on Sunday.
8. Get a grading book plus review the PCGS grading material available on the PCGS site.
9. Don't be swayed by statements like "Invest now" or that a coin has to be a certain high dollar amount - it could be low end, heavily marked up over wholesale for what is typical in the industry.
10. Join a coin club where you can attend meetings / auctions. Buying at a coin club auction can be exciting, they run out of money towards the end.
When I first started buying coins years ago there was no such thing as a TPG, ebay, numerical grading, internet information, etc. I had to learn on my own if a coin was even BU vs some cleaned jewelry piece. My main resources were the Red Book, and Brown and Dunn Grading book (drawings). Photograde came later. If one bought mail order, receiving problem / overgraded coins was usually the norm. Coin shows were like a circus of coin deals and cigar smoke permeating the atmosphere. Common Date BU Morgan Dollars were in cigar boxes marked $2.50 each, your pick. Gold was at $35 an ounce. The 1950-D nickel was king (I bought one at a coin shop marked unc for $17.50 in 1968). BU rolls were highly sought after for investment. A Common Gem Saint could be had for $75-85, nice AU Libs (promoted as CH BU) for less. Many dealers then would have laughed at the idea of numerical or TPG grading let alone stickering.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251775969347
I'm not seeing anything wrong with the holders or coins. Anybody see anything?
As for not buying coins - I fear that won't be possible as I've been bitten by the coin bug!
Although he posts more on the precious metals forum
If they are one in the same, I'd trust him.
The coins and slabs seem fine.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Keep your money in your wallet awhile longer. The coins will wait.
Search these archives. Start with "eBay". That'll keep you busy for a few weeks
Ask questions here & of the seller. The learning curve is steep and expensive.
Buy some coins then try to resell them. Learn from that experience.
Best of luck.
I guarantee you that the coins and holders are genuine. Even though I didn't submit them myself, I bought them few years back from reputable
sellers.
I have 6 years experience on eBay with more than 700 positive feedbacks and have dealt with over 100 members on this forum (see references below).
I state that I don't accept returns on eBay but, if you are not happy with the coins, you will be allowed to return them.
Thanks,
nibanny
REFERENCES (as Ciccio and nibanny)
As buyer: mkman123, robkool, ajbauman, YogiBerraFan, duxbutt, steve27, keepdachange, MillerJW, rpcoletrane, carew4me, coinnerd , mission16, colorfulcoins, TennesseeDave, BLee23, jmski52, Durexmetals, greghansen, barefootjuan, WestySteve, Boom, Dragon, AUandAG, tydye, cohodk, FullCameo, CoinCrazyPA, piecesofme, Lukemarshall, 78saen, Meltdown, tlake22, Barndog, Wizard1, jfoot13, CarlWohlforth, JIMfromDC, guitarwes, Vbowling299, thenibbler, NumisMe, Gerard, michiganboy, Baley, atarian, calleocho, chumley, kalshacon, themaster, Metalsman, Proemisch, agentjim007, Paulyaces76, derryb, pjcoins, joefro, coin22lover, cucamongacoin, jayPem, numisma, bumanchu, Zubie
As seller: Wingsrule, mkman123, carew4me, SilverBaron, Rooster1, Zubie, ajia, gsa1fan, bstat1020, sebrown, oilstates2003, tizofthe, VikingDude, notwilight, SmallTownCoins, indiananationals, chumley, pragmaticgoat, matslappy, proofquarter, percyb, morgantype, Downtown1974, Htubbs, Cohodk, epxjimi1, carew4me, ibzman350, leftofdial, DBSTrader2, Boom, fiveNdime, bestmr, theboz11, olistates2003, philographer, abitofthisabitofthat, Wingsrule, tydye, Swampboy, Indiananationals, Type2, Lukemarshall, pursuitofliberty, mbbiker, mariner67, Spooly, RGJohn, Tdec1000, Dontippet, kryptonitecomics, tewcd, oilstate2003, Danny9995, tizofthe, Stork, morgantype, libertydude, cajun, Kd5ddo, pragmaticgoat, chumley, CoinCrazyPA, ajaan, Dennis88, VikingDude, notwilight, buckeye77, piecesofme, Dabigkahuna, HiBucky, PerryHall, illini420, Timbuk3, Rons, Downtown1974, Jinx86, Casey, terburn88, MPLunatic, SNMAN, Coupdescrounge, AcesCracked, morgansforever, ajman, mbwizkid, RYK, derryb, collectall, UNLVino, jdsueu, bgman, Zubie, sumrtym, Hawgstick, LowBudget, TPRC, cellos, themaster, ranshdow, OKCC, Silveraholic[B]
<< <i>Paying with a CC instead of a PP balance is also good ebay advice. >>
This is good advice just add some CCs on your PayPal list and do not keep a balance. This offers you a third level of protection should you need it. In 15 years of buying and selling on ebay I have never had to do a charge back to a credit card. Just verify your prices as that is the biggest obstacle. The other problem is impulse buying, don't do it as most coins unless very rare are out t most of all just have some fun, read around the negativity and and learn what is being offered.
...So basically, it seems that you have some book knowledge, but no real expertise. It seems that you aren't a qualified authenticator, and would not volunteer your services as such for a local coin club auction or charity event or similar. Perhaps you have read the books, watched the videos. It seems that for the most part, you are just blowing smoke, about your history of safe coin buying. You might be correct, that all the coins you have bought are real, but you aren't an expert. There is some chance that some small percentage of the coins you bought from Ebay are high quality fakes, perhaps in fake slabs. These high quality fakes will only be detected when an expert authenticator looks at them.
WOW. That was just bizarre. And depressing.
So seriously...Driggs, congrats on catching the coin bug! Everyone takes some lumps as part of the learning process. Cougar78 condensed a lot of great info into a single post. I wish I had someone around to impart that knowledge to me when I first began buying coins.
You'll discover there are widely divergent viewpoints here regarding Ebay. There are bad actors peddling their wares there and there are some outstanding people who love this hobby there also. You just find the good ones and gravitate to them.
You'll be okay. You have the proper amount of curiosity and you found this place.
I think the other lesson that I learned from this thread is: check to see if the ebay seller handle is also used as their handle in these forums! That way you can quickly learn more about the seller and the coins.
Thanks all.