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16 greatest QB's of all time
garnettstyle
Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Namath made the list. They have Brady at #1.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ranking-the-16-greatest-quarterbacks-in-nfl-history/ss-BBi93r0
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ranking-the-16-greatest-quarterbacks-in-nfl-history/ss-BBi93r0
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
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<< <i>Any list of "Great QBs" that has Namath on the list loses all credibility >>
How so? Namath is in the Hall of fame.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
Namath was a decent QB, but not great. He had 220 INTs and only 173 TDs. John Hadl has better stats, and ranks above Namath in every major category (and I believe Hadl belongs in the HOF!).
Namath is in the HOF (and I believe rightly so), because he played in New York, was arguably the "face" of the AFL (and the NFL in the early 1970s), and due to his play in SBIII, was a big impetus in the merger of the AFL and NFL.
Steved
01. Tom Brady
02. Joe Montana
03. Peyton Manning
04. John Elway
05. Dan Marino
06. Brett Favre
07. Terry Bradshaw
08. Roger Staubach
09. Johnny Unitas
10. Steve Young
11. Jim Kelly
12. Fran Tarkenton
13. Troy Aikman
14. Joe Namath
15. Drew Brees
16. Bart Starr
Personally, I would take Namath off the list, and add Otto Graham.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>Any list of "Great QBs" that has Namath on the list loses all credibility >>
How so? Namath is in the Hall of fame. >>
So, being in the HOF qualifies him as an all time great at his position?
The fact that Otto Graham did not make such a list illustrates the stupidity in undertaking an All-time QB list. Can you really compare someone like Sammy Baugh to John Elway? I am not pick on either Baugh or Elway but the game has changed. Comparisons are just not viable.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
He was much better than his stats...something the under 40 yo stat crunchers crowd
will never be able to get over.
Thank you Grote well said.
I can't agree with this list. Does anyone ????
No Baugh and Graham Really ??
like some have said why even bother making lists across eras
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
And Slingin' Sammy!
Namath needs to go
yes, they're usually good conversation starters but this really is one of the worst I've seen.
seems like the author was given an assignment despite having any sports credentials. just to get the clicks.
.
<< <i>Is Bradshaw really the 7th greatest QB ever?? Or was he surrounded by the greatest Hall of Fame team on both sides of the ball? >>
He was surrounded by the best team of the 70's
<< <i>
<< <i>Is Bradshaw really the 7th greatest QB ever?? Or was he surrounded by the greatest Hall of Fame team on both sides of the ball? >>
He was surrounded by the best team of the 70's >>
+1
He makes Namath seem underrated.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
and yet he never threw a Super Bowl game ending interception with the ball on the one yard line...like a certain QB did on a team who had arguably a top 4 or 5 defense of all time (according to some), HOF RB, decent WRs.
Just saying'. If it were that easy by just being surrounded by top level talent then everyone would, could do it. As some are suggesting.
his last two superbowls threw for over three hundred yards each game and 6 total tds. in the run oriented 70s. 1978 NFL league mvp with league leading total tds and whatever yardage. if it were that easy....
then theres the 1976 team...oh well.
just throwing that out there...i do agree that he's not the 7th greatest ever. but give him some credit. he did do it 4 times which is a lot more than 1 or 2. and all the playoff games that had to be won.
You got rookie QB's throwing for 4k yards now
01. Tom Brady
02. Joe Montana
03. Peyton Manning
04. John Elway down three
05. Dan Marino
06. Brett Favre down one or two
07. Terry Bradshaw -- move down 7 spots or so
08. Roger Staubach
09. Johnny Unitas Move up a couple
10. Steve Young move up a couple
11. Jim Kelly
12. Fran Tarkenton
13. Troy Aikman off the list
14. Joe Namath off the list
15. Drew Brees down on
16. Bart Starr up ahead of Brees, Tarkenton
Add Otto Graham (7) and Slingin' Sammy (14)
<< <i>
<< <i>Is Bradshaw really the 7th greatest QB ever?? Or was he surrounded by the greatest Hall of Fame team on both sides of the ball? >>
He was surrounded by the best team of the 70's >>
Every player on the team was surrounded by hall of fame greats. Why single out one person?
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Is Bradshaw really the 7th greatest QB ever?? Or was he surrounded by the greatest Hall of Fame team on both sides of the ball? >>
He was surrounded by the best team of the 70's >>
Every player on the team was surrounded by hall of fame greats. Why single out one person? >>
I think your looking at it from a different perspective, nobody is saying Lynn Swann is the 7th best WR ever or Franco Harris for that matter, Terry Bradshaw was surrounded by talent that made him win 4 Super Bowls
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Is Bradshaw really the 7th greatest QB ever?? Or was he surrounded by the greatest Hall of Fame team on both sides of the ball? >>
He was surrounded by the best team of the 70's >>
Every player on the team was surrounded by hall of fame greats. Why single out one person? >>
Because Terry's backups put up same or better numbers (and records) than Terry's when he was hurt?
<< <i>
<< <i>Any list of "Great QBs" that has Namath on the list loses all credibility >>
How so? Namath is in the Hall of fame. >>
If the Jets lose Super Bowl III, Namath doesn't get more than a passing glance for HOF consideration. Jets' defense won that game, not Namath. About the only noteworthy thing Namath accomplished in that game was not throwing an INT.
<< <i>Otto Graham won it all nearly every year he played. Sick he is not on this list.
01. Tom Brady
02. Joe Montana
03. Peyton Manning
04. John Elway down three
05. Dan Marino
06. Brett Favre down one or two
07. Terry Bradshaw -- move down 7 spots or so
08. Roger Staubach
09. Johnny Unitas Move up a couple
10. Steve Young move up a couple
11. Jim Kelly
12. Fran Tarkenton
13. Troy Aikman off the list
14. Joe Namath off the list
15. Drew Brees down on
16. Bart Starr up ahead of Brees, Tarkenton
>>
You can't take a guy that won three sb's off the list Troy. May as well take Bradshaw off as well. They were very similar qbs. Comparable in stats, surrounding talent and sb wins.
Bradshaw
Games -168, attempts - 3,901, completions -2,025, yards - 27,989, tds- 212, ints -210
Aikman
Games-165, attempts- 4,715, compltetions- 2,898, yards -32,942 tds-165, ints- 141
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>You can't take a guy that won three sb's off the list Troy. May as well take Bradshaw off as well. They were very similar qbs. Comparable in stats, surrounding talent and sb wins. >>
I agree, and IMO neither one of them was a particularly great QB. The logic that says "sb wins" counts as evidence of QB greatness works exactly the same at all positions. But if it was the case that every Steeler was one of the 15 greatest ever at his position, then surely the Steelers would have won every game they played by 21 points at least. But they didn't, because some of them were great and some of them weren't, and the fact that they won Super Bowls hasn't gotten us anywhere in our search to figure out which was which. But once we acknowledge that "sb wins" isn't evidence of individual greatness, what else is there supporting Bradshaw or Aikman (or Namath) being on this list? Identifying which players make a great team great is a challenge, and simply assuming that the QB must be great is a mistake. If anyone has evidence - and I mean any scrap of it, however small - other than "sb wins" that Terry Bradshaw or Troy Aikman were better than Ken Anderson, then please share it. I've looked, and watched them all play, and I don't think there is any. And I'll add Len Dawson to the list, along with Baugh and Luckman and Graham and Van Brocklin and maybe a few others, that deserve a place on that list more than a bunch of QBs that are on there now.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
There are intangibles to consider as well.
Poor Dan Marino was stuck on lousy teams and doesn't get enough credit mark him up a few . Peyton Manning is a horrible choke artist and somehow people feel his stats makes up for that he goes down a few.
Bradshaw and Aikman I would give more credit if they would both shut up and go away already. Until they do they are off the list.
Joe Namath drunkenly professed his love for Suzi Kolber on national TV mark him down 10 spots yikes.
Brett Farve sorry , the tail end of his run was an embarrassment and he was more anointed as great by media than actually great . He was liability half the time just like Peyton , and he doesn't belong on the list at all.
I haven't spent much time in Denver lately but if John Elway still has all those car dealerships and the commercials and billboards with his goofy buck tooth mug on them hes off the list too.
Actually I would push everyone on any sort of list up 5 or 10 spots if they would just shut up and go away once they are done playing . Seriously
Suffice to say that Terrell Davis has a standing invite for Christmas dinner each year at the Elway homestead.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I haven't spent much time in Denver lately but if John Elway still has all those car dealerships and the commercials and billboards with his goofy buck tooth mug on them hes off the list too.
Suffice to say that Terrell Davis has a standing invite for Christmas dinner each year at the Elway homestead. >>
So true!
<< <i>The arguments regarding QB greatness or riding coattails of already tremendous teams are all valid, but I will say that the QB position in football is different from most any other in team sports in that QB greatness, like it or not, will always be measured by Super Bowls rings. The QB almost always gets too much blame for a team's failure and too much credit for their success. >>
Very true, though if its the QB calling his own plays, then I can see why.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
<< <i>
<< <i>QB greatness, like it or not, will always be measured by Super Bowls rings. >>
- i agree, jim plunkett >>
He's certainly held in much higher regard for winning two than he would have been not winning any.
Just look at Peyton Manning~he's won one and some still say he's not an all time elite QB great because he hasn't done much else.
OTOH, his brother, who is really just a slightly above average to average QB over his career, is considered by many to be a possible HOFer.
Of course, Peyton is MUCH better than Eli~but the pereception is still there.
Namath doesn't get into the HOF if he doesn't win Super Bowl III~and he wasn't even instrumental in winning that game, other than guaranteeing it, of course.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
Namath doesn't get into the HOF if he doesn't win Super Bowl III~and he wasn't even instrumental in winning that game, other than guaranteeing it, of course. >>
Speaking of Joe Namath , I was at lunch the other day and a man walked in wearing a fur coat . I got up to ask for an autograph but when I got closer I realized it was some other damn fool
Dan Fouts belongs on this list. The Air Coryell Super Chargers ran an offense no one had ever seen before. And Fouts led the way. That offense was pretty much unstoppable from 1979-1982. There's a guy with absolutely no defense around him. He did all he could do.
So as you all have mentioned, how are we defining "Greatest" in this thing?
And how do you put together a top QB list without mentioning Bubby Brister???
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>The greatest quarterback I ever saw was Steve Young.in his prime. I'd put his run with the 49ers in the mid 90's up against anyone.
Dan Fouts belongs on this list. The Air Coryell Super Chargers ran an offense no one had ever seen before. And Fouts led the way. That offense was pretty much unstoppable from 1979-1982. There's a guy with absolutely no defense around him. He did all he could do.
So as you all have mentioned, how are we defining "Greatest" in this thing?
And how do you put together a top QB list without mentioning Bubby Brister??? >>
Im a HUGE fan of Steve Young, I would take him over Montana all day although he did inherit a great team.
Bottom line nobody has had more success with the supporting cast around him than Tom Brady, this guy has taken his team to SIX Super Bowls, thats SIX while dealing with a salary cap, a cheap owner and outside of Randy Moss not one HOF calibre WR.
Tom Brady is the best, there I said it
<< <i>
<< <i>The greatest quarterback I ever saw was Steve Young.in his prime. I'd put his run with the 49ers in the mid 90's up against anyone.
Dan Fouts belongs on this list. The Air Coryell Super Chargers ran an offense no one had ever seen before. And Fouts led the way. That offense was pretty much unstoppable from 1979-1982. There's a guy with absolutely no defense around him. He did all he could do.
So as you all have mentioned, how are we defining "Greatest" in this thing?
And how do you put together a top QB list without mentioning Bubby Brister??? >>
Im a HUGE fan of Steve Young, I would take him over Montana all day although he did inherit a great team.
Bottom line nobody has had more success with the supporting cast around him than Tom Brady, this guy has taken his team to SIX Super Bowls, thats SIX while dealing with a salary cap, a cheap owner and outside of Randy Moss not one HOF calibre WR.
Tom Brady is the best, there I said it
Brady did win more with less around him. He also took two completely different teams to Super Bowl wins(and to Super Bowls). That is more impressive than what Montana did, certainly more than Bradshaw(who basically had the same team for all four, and they carried him more than the other way around).
Also, if one were to judge a QB on Super Bowl wins, then wouldn't they judge a QB who got to a Super Bowl as being better than someone who didn't? Then if that is the case, isn't getting to a NFC or AFC championship game also of high importance? Of course, because you can't win Super Bowls without getting a team to the championship game, so those most be credited as well.
So if Brady and Montana both have won four Super Bowls, then in the minds of 'Super Bowl criteria people', they are equal.
But then Brady also got to two more SUper Bowls than Montana, so that would push him ahead of Montana.
Consider that Brady did it with completely different personnel, then you would have a clear winner...if you are using Super Bowls as your determining factor.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The greatest quarterback I ever saw was Steve Young.in his prime. I'd put his run with the 49ers in the mid 90's up against anyone.
Dan Fouts belongs on this list. The Air Coryell Super Chargers ran an offense no one had ever seen before. And Fouts led the way. That offense was pretty much unstoppable from 1979-1982. There's a guy with absolutely no defense around him. He did all he could do.
So as you all have mentioned, how are we defining "Greatest" in this thing?
And how do you put together a top QB list without mentioning Bubby Brister??? >>
Im a HUGE fan of Steve Young, I would take him over Montana all day although he did inherit a great team.
Bottom line nobody has had more success with the supporting cast around him than Tom Brady, this guy has taken his team to SIX Super Bowls, thats SIX while dealing with a salary cap, a cheap owner and outside of Randy Moss not one HOF calibre WR.
Tom Brady is the best, there I said it
Brady did win more with less around him. He also took two completely different teams to Super Bowl wins(and to Super Bowls). That is more impressive than what Montana did, certainly more than Bradshaw(who basically had the same team for all four, and they carried him more than the other way around).
Also, if one were to judge a QB on Super Bowl wins, then wouldn't they judge a QB who got to a Super Bowl as being better than someone who didn't? Then if that is the case, isn't getting to a NFC or AFC championship game also of high importance? Of course, because you can't win Super Bowls without getting a team to the championship game, so those most be credited as well.
So if Brady and Montana both have won four Super Bowls, then in the minds of 'Super Bowl criteria people', they are equal.
But then Brady also got to two more SUper Bowls than Montana, so that would push him ahead of Montana.
Consider that Brady did it with completely different personnel, then you would have a clear winner...if you are using Super Bowls as your determining factor. >>
Bradshaw's 4 super bowls are more impressive than Brady's and Montana's, because he called his own plays and played in a era when you could knock the head off of a QB and defend a wide receiver. Like the article says, without Bradshaw they probably don't win 4 super bowls. Brady lost to two lowly Giants teams and anyone who watched this years super bowl knows the seahawks were the better team and won that game. And you want to talk nonsense about backups, the year Brady was injured his backup went 11-5.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
As far as that 11-5 team led by Cassell, he had Randy Moss and the AFC East was completely up for grabs between the Pats and the Jets. You look at the 2001, 2004 and 2005 Super Bowl teams and name someone on the team besides Ty Law, Bruschi or Brady.....
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
When Bradshaw's scrub replacements started with the elite team when Bradshaw was benched(yeah he was benched), they actually had a better starting QB record and better passing numbers than Bradshaw.
Not going to beat a dead horse, it has already been outlined and hashed out in another thread.
Bradshaw had the opportunity(several years) to show that he could win without that elite cast, and he did nothing. It was his teammates. In fact, the backup scrubs actually did better than Bradshaw(when Bradshaw was benched)
Brady on the other hand had several different sets of teammates and he won with all of them. That hints a little more on who was responsible for what.
Bradshaw may be the most overrated player in the history of sports.
When Bradshaw's scrub replacements started with the elite team when Bradshaw was benched(yeah he was benched), they actually had a better starting QB record and better passing numbers than Bradshaw.
Not going to beat a dead horse, it has already been outlined and hashed out in another thread.
Bradshaw had the opportunity(several years) to show that he could win without that elite cast, and he did nothing. It was his teammates. In fact, the backup scrubs actually did better than Bradshaw(when Bradshaw was benched)
Brady on the other hand had several different sets of teammates and he won with all of them. That hints a little more on who was responsible for what.
Bradshaw may be the most overrated player in the history of sports.
<< <i>Bradshaw better than Brady? I abhor the Pats and even I would never make such a ridiculous claim. >>
Garnettstyle leads the league in ridiculous statements. Any Top 15 list that has Aikman and Bradshaw on it makes me chuckle. Bradshaw average. Aikman average to good.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Having lived long enough and fortunate to see all the listed QB's play,(albeit Starr/Unitas at their career end,not in their prime) the lasting performance impressions that have stayed with me the longest has been Montana. Can't give a specific reason. Maybe it was the media/TV coverage. I don't know. But it's just one of those things that stays with you, like the "where were you when JFK was shot". I only feel for me at least, to be fair, it is best to judge the QB's performance/worth within the concept of the overall team, as each position feeds off the other teamates contribution. There really is no greatest, only that one QB/performance that resides in each of a fans eyes and how that QB's career/performance affected that fan. Nothing wrong with that. >>
I respect your opinion and believe what you have posted is genuine, although MOST other people that say Montana was the best are just stuck in the old way of thinking and they refuse to waiver from it regardless of what happens in that given sport going forward, its the same thing as the people that say Jim Brown was the best ever and refuse to even listen to reasonable debates over it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bradshaw better than Brady? I abhor the Pats and even I would never make such a ridiculous claim. >>
Garnettstyle leads the league in ridiculous statements.
MJ >>
Except for the fact I never made such a statement. I said that his 4 rings were more impressive than Brady's 4 rings.
Skin, lets see these 'backup better than Bradshaw numbers.' How many games are they for about 5? lol
Teams wins super bowls. Individuals win MVP awards and Bradshaw won his share and Bradshaw called the plays.
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Bradshaw better than Brady? I abhor the Pats and even I would never make such a ridiculous claim. >>
Garnettstyle leads the league in ridiculous statements.
MJ >>
Except for the fact I never made such a statement. I said that his 4 rings were more impressive than Brady's 4 rings.
Skin, lets see these 'backup better than Bradshaw numbers.' How many games are they for about 5? lol
Teams wins super bowls. Individuals win MVP awards and Bradshaw won his share and Bradshaw called the plays. >>
If calling their own plays was a big deal then why not fill up the list with a bunch of fossils from the 1950's?
Bradshaw couldn't call his own plays today none of those other older guys could do that now either . That's all over with
<< <i>
Teams wins super bowls. >>
You cannot make that comment, and then make a comment that Bradshaw was great simply because 'he' won four Super Bowls.
During the span of their Super Bowl run, the backup QB's were 9-1, I believe. Their passer stats were combined the same/effective as Bradshaw's.
Funny how you made the comment about backups being in "only five games" to say it is meaningless, and then you give so much credit to Bradshaw for being in "four" Super Bowls. Get it?? Actually, I doubt you will.
Bradshaw was actually benched during that Super Bowl run.
Before Bradshaw got Harris, Swann, Stallworth etc., his passing was near league average and their team not that great. When the offensive skill position players arrived & the elite defense arrived, it is only then when the Steelers won Super Bowls. So to say it was Bradshaw that was responsible for winning is foolish, because he had five years before all of that to prove that it was HIM that was winning, and he didn't win jack. If his play calling was the reason they won, then his play calling would have made them win BEFORE the elite cast arrived, and it didn't...so it wasn't his playing calling that won anything
On top of that, when that elite surrounding cast was carrying Bradshaw we saw that scrub QB's could win with that group of players, and they did, going 9-1 as starting QB's for that elite team.
Bradshaw = Most overrated player in history of sports.
PS: For the record, I truly believe that QB's get way too much credit for Super Bowl wins(even Brady), and have much evidence to back that up. However, some actually deserve a good amount of credit.
Brady won Super Bowls with completely different sets of teammates, so he is the constant, and that means something.
Cassel was brought up:
Cassel was 10-5 with an 89.4 QB rating in the year of Brady's injury. Not bad.
The two seasons surrounding that injury year, Brady was 27-6 with a 106.6 passer rating.
So it isn't like Cassel filled in and did the same thing as Brady. It also does show that a little too much credit can be given to the QB, because Cassel did pretty good too(Nothing like the Bradshaw backup QB's actually winning MORE than the starter...but good nonetheless).
There is no stat in football to 'prove' anything, but there is a lot of evidence to make something of a case.
Bradshaw got hurt in the Week 5 game against the Browns, a Cleveland win at 18-16. If you have access to YouTube I encourage you to search "Turkey Jones Bradshaw". Many of you have seen that hit. That was this 18-16 game. This dropped the Steelers to 1-4. The point totals that the Steel Curtain Defense gave up those 5 weeks were 31, 14, 30, 17 & 18. It is also noteworthy that during that 5 game stretch they played the Raiders & Vikings (The Super Bowl teams in 1976), the 11-3 Patriots, and rival Cleveland twice (which also provided their lone win).
Enter Mike Kruczek who went 6-0. The point totals the Steeler Defense gave up during the six games Mike Kruczek started: 6, 0, 0, 16, 3, 0. Also note that Kruczek threw a grand total of 0 TDs during this stretch and averaged 96.1 yrds/game never cracking even 200 yards. He won a game going 2-6 with 20 yards passing (he did add 17 on the ground) in a 23-0 win over SD. Also note that Bradshaw came into that game leading the Steelers to 17 4th quarter points (not bad for 70s football). That game is part of Kruczek's 6-0 starting record. Bradshaw doesn't get credit for that win which clearly is more his than Kruczek's (if we are going to bother crediting QBs with wins and losses).
So can we stop the nonsense that the backups were as good as Bradshaw. Quoting backup records is a dishonest/ignorant misuse of the stats. Bradshaw isn't a Top 15 all-time QB, but he wasn't a scrub either and he was a very important part of a 4-time Super Bowl champion. Stop the madness please. I'm a Browns fan, who needs a shower after standing up for Bradshaw. Don't make me do it again. Please start disparing Otto Graham. I'll enjoy standing up for him.
Sources:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/1976.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KrucMi00/gamelog/
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/197610310pit.htm
If you are going to take away credit for Krucek's win's because the defense held them to low points, then you have to do that for Bradshaw too for that year and for other years
In 1976 Bradshaw had three starts and wins where the defense gave up 0,3, and 0 points.
If you are going to cite Krucek for having wins despite low yardage totals, then realize that Bradshaw eclipsed 100 yards in a game only four times that year. Krucek also eclipsed 100 yards four times that year.
Krucek averaged 8.9 Yards/Att
Bradshaw averaged 6.1
So yes, Krucek did statistically outperform Bradshaw.
In 1974, the Steelers won a playoff game despite Bradshaw going 8-17 for 95 yds. 1 INT. 1 TD. 59 QB rating. With a QB performance like that, they should not have won that playoff game...and they went on to win a Super Bowl that year. A super bowl that Bradshaw keeps getting credit for, despite that they shouldn't have won it due to that playoff performance.
In 1975 in the first round of the playoffs Bradshaw threw up another stinker going 8-13 for 103 yds, 0TD, 2 INT, and a 46.8 QB rating.
In 1975 in the second round of the playoffs Bradshaw threw up another stinker going with 1 TD and 3 INT, and 61 QB rating.
So that is two Super Bowls where Bradshaw played and they should have lost EARLY IN THE PLAYOFFS based on his poor performance, but he was bailed out by an elite defense and running game. Yet Bradshaw gets 'credit' for those two Super Bowls. If you take credit away from Krucek for his 6-0 record in 1976 because it was the defense and teammates that helped him so much, then you MUST take away credit for Bradshaw's first two Super Bowls because the defense and teammates did that for him in the playoffs allowing them to advance
Then in the next two Super Bowl runs, it was Swann and Stallworth as the reason why Bradshaw had good passing numbers. They made the catches and plays. Without them Bradshaw never could put up passing numbers. The rule changes also helped as well in 1978 and 1979...but still Swann and Stallworth being the reason.
<< <i>Much of the "Bradshaw's backups were better/as good as him because look at the record" comes from the 1976 season when Bradshaw went 4-4 and Kruczek went 6-0. Lets take a deeper look. I have submitted the links below to the 1976 Steelers season.
Bradshaw got hurt in the Week 5 game against the Browns, a Cleveland win at 18-16. If you have access to YouTube I encourage you to search "Turkey Jones Bradshaw". Many of you have seen that hit. That was this 18-16 game. This dropped the Steelers to 1-4. The point totals that the Steel Curtain Defense gave up those 5 weeks were 31, 14, 30, 17 & 18. It is also noteworthy that during that 5 game stretch they played the Raiders & Vikings (The Super Bowl teams in 1976), the 11-3 Patriots, and rival Cleveland twice (which also provided their lone win).
Enter Mike Kruczek who went 6-0. The point totals the Steeler Defense gave up during the six games Mike Kruczek started: 6, 0, 0, 16, 3, 0. Also note that Kruczek threw a grand total of 0 TDs during this stretch and averaged 96.1 yrds/game never cracking even 200 yards. He won a game going 2-6 with 20 yards passing (he did add 17 on the ground) in a 23-0 win over SD. Also note that Bradshaw came into that game leading the Steelers to 17 4th quarter points (not bad for 70s football). That game is part of Kruczek's 6-0 starting record. Bradshaw doesn't get credit for that win which clearly is more his than Kruczek's (if we are going to bother crediting QBs with wins and losses).
So can we stop the nonsense that the backups were as good as Bradshaw. Quoting backup records is a dishonest/ignorant misuse of the stats. Bradshaw isn't a Top 15 all-time QB, but he wasn't a scrub either and he was a very important part of a 4-time Super Bowl champion. Stop the madness please. I'm a Browns fan, who needs a shower after standing up for Bradshaw. Don't make me do it again. Please start disparing Otto Graham. I'll enjoy standing up for him.
Sources:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/1976.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KrucMi00/gamelog/
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/197610310pit.htm >>
Well played!
TheClockworkAngelCollection
If you are going to take away credit for Kruczek's win's because the defense held them to low points, then you have to do that for Bradshaw too for that year and for other years
In 1976 Bradshaw had three starts and wins where the defense gave up 0,3, and 0 points.
If you are going to cite Krucek for having wins despite low yardage totals, then realize that Bradshaw eclipsed 100 yards in a game only four times that year. Krucek also eclipsed 100 yards four times that year.
Krucek averaged 8.9 Yards/Att
Bradshaw averaged 6.1
So yes, Kruczek did statistically outperform Bradshaw.
In 1974, the Steelers won a playoff game despite Bradshaw going 8-17 for 95 yds. 1 INT. 1 TD. 59 QB rating. With a QB performance like that, they should not have won that playoff game...and they went on to win a Super Bowl that year. A super bowl that Bradshaw keeps getting credit for, despite that they shouldn't have won it due to that playoff performance.
In 1975 in the first round of the playoffs Bradshaw threw up another stinker going 8-13 for 103 yds, 0TD, 2 INT, and a 46.8 QB rating.
In 1975 in the second round of the playoffs Bradshaw threw up another stinker going with 1 TD and 3 INT, and 61 QB rating.
So that is two Super Bowls where Bradshaw played and they should have lost EARLY IN THE PLAYOFFS based on his poor performance, but he was bailed out by an elite defense and running game. Yet Bradshaw gets 'credit' for those two Super Bowls. If you take credit away from Krucek for his 6-0 record in 1976 because it was the defense and teammates that helped him so much, then you MUST take away credit for Bradshaw's first two Super Bowls because the defense and teammates did that for him in the playoffs allowing them to advance
Then in the next two Super Bowl runs, it was Swann and Stallworth as the reason why Bradshaw had good passing numbers. They made the catches and plays. Without them Bradshaw never could put up passing numbers. The rule changes also helped as well in 1978 and 1979...but still Swann and Stallworth being the reason.
Yes, it is a well played move to show that Bradshaw then doesn't deserve the credit either...as outlined above.
Also, in 1974 the backups were 5-1-1. Bradshaw was 5-2.