What would you do?
dberk12
Posts: 399 ✭✭
I have a dilemma that I need to navigate though and would like to get some opinions about how to proceed. I consigned a card with an auction house in November. The owner once took the time to talk to me about cards a while back when I got back into collecting and seemed like a good guy. I thought I would throw him a bone when I was choosing where to consign. My card sold for $4100 (I am owed $3500) in mid November. I was promised payment the following month. Time went on and I didn't receive a check. I contacted the owner and he said that a dishonest bidder won several of his high priced auctions but never intended to pay. He had to circle back and fix those lots to figure out who among the honest bidders won the auction and get paid for those items. I was promised payment mid January after he fixed his problem. Again, time went on and no check. I contacted him again voicing my displeasure. He then said in February that there was a death in the family. He was involved in handling his personal business and still did not fix his financial issues. He promised that I would have my check last week. I still haven't received a check and he did not respond to my last email.
I don't wish to disclose the auction house at this time because I am not vindictive and my goal is not to smear him in a public forum. He has a reputable auction house and currently has auctions going on which bothers me because if he is not paying consignors from November how is he going to pay anyone involved now? Another thing that bothers me is that my card was not one of the lots involved with the dishonest bidder. So basically he received a check sometime around the end of November for my card and never paid me.
I am curious to know what my options are. Out of those options, what would you do?
Thanks for taking the time to read this long post and offering advice.
I don't wish to disclose the auction house at this time because I am not vindictive and my goal is not to smear him in a public forum. He has a reputable auction house and currently has auctions going on which bothers me because if he is not paying consignors from November how is he going to pay anyone involved now? Another thing that bothers me is that my card was not one of the lots involved with the dishonest bidder. So basically he received a check sometime around the end of November for my card and never paid me.
I am curious to know what my options are. Out of those options, what would you do?
Thanks for taking the time to read this long post and offering advice.
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.
-George F. Will
0
Comments
Sounds like this reputable dealer is having serious personal issues causing money flow problems.
I would like to know who it is so none of us on this board do business with him.
Your comments are in direct conflict with this statement.
What he is doing is the opposite of reputable and the "death in the family" line is the excuse I hear more than
any other x 10 in my business (sub prime auto lending).
to answer your question on what would I do, I would file a complaint with the BBB and contact the local police department
and ask their guidance on filing a police report for possible theft of goods.
he said that a dishonest bidder won several of his high priced auctions but never intended to pay.
A consignor is not out any money if a buyer doesn't pay, he is out time and nominal costs for advertising, because he isn't paying for the inventory he sells. He would simply resell the items
that were not paid for initially and move on. Your transaction would not and should not have any impact on that separate deal. There is no reason that your money is hung up taking care of his personal
problems of drugs, taxes or gambling. So his problems are your problem.
Couple of things don't make sense. If you are the under bidder you would have been contacted ASAP about the deal and either done it or passed. The second thing is he could make up the story and say the high bidder reneged when they really paid, and then tell you rather than $4100 which nets you $3600 the under bid was $3000 which nets you $2500 or so. If so he could keep an extra $1000-1100 and nobody knows. I don't this particular AH and their rules, but I would be asking for some $$ back if I was you or my card. If they cannot produce the card you know what happened.
begin and end the rip offs with you. His problems should not become your problems.
<< <i>sorry for multiple posts on this but it has me pissed how snowed you are getting.
he said that a dishonest bidder won several of his high priced auctions but never intended to pay.
A consignor is not out any money if a buyer doesn't pay, he is out time and nominal costs for advertising, because he isn't paying for the inventory he sells. He would simply resell the items
that were not paid for initially and move on. Your transaction would not and should not have any impact on that separate deal. There is no reason that your money is hung up taking care of his personal
problems of drugs, taxes or gambling. So his problems are your problem. >>
Also, I would think a reputable and possibly large AH would have backup employees/staff to handle emergency situations that occur, such as personal issues (death in family etc.), so as to ensure a smooth running of the operation in trying times such as this. I've always wondered how a business can be solely operated with only one person being knowledgable of pending transactions. If that individual dies, who would know how to complete the pending transactions. A back up plan with another person aware of the transactions pending would be the best ins. policy. Good luck on it's resolution.
<< <i>He then said in February that there was a death in the family. >>
This is interesting.
One can have a dead grandmother, car accident, loss of a limb, fire, hail damage, lost dog, identity theft, lost wallet, power outage, snow storm and a bad takeout meal and still find 2 minutes to make out a check and mail it.
I have no simple solution but I'm sure of only ONE thing....
the guy doesn't have the dough to pay right now and is deceiving you of that fact.
<< <i>I understand not wanting to publicly out the AH at this time. However, don't rule out that possibility as that might be your only leverage. Most AH's want to avoid that kind of publicity at all costs. Good luck and I hope you get paid soon. >>
+1
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Huge thanks to everyone that gave their opinions and advice though posting and PMs. Everyone seems to rally and protect the honest collectors on this forum and I appreciate that.
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.
-George F. Will
<< <i>30 year coin/currency dealer here and we've had this happen before. You are getting strung along for whatever reason, and a professional auction house doesn't do that. Invest $50 or $100 with an attorney and have him write a demand letter setting a time certain and ask for the full amount owed...and that failure to comply will result in a small claims action (that you will definitely win). >>
I would be leery of any attorney who is so in need of work he would accept $50 or $100 to get involved with your little case. To me it would be free or $1,000 but maybe that's just me.
in fact, in this case just the threat of a lawyer should be enough.
i have sympathy for sickness and deaths in the family..but after i looked up my roofer on a review site... it turned out 3 of his grandmothers died, six sisters were in the hospital at some point, about 7 of his children were in accidents or traffic was so horrible on a bright sunday afternoon that he couldn't make appointments.
I do hope you are made whole. No excuses for what is happening to you but I have heard this same story before, sadly enough.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I contacted a lawyer and I am going to follow her advice. My deadline is going to be next Friday before I proceed with what she wants me to do. She advised me to refrain from giving any details in a public forum at this time.
Huge thanks to everyone that gave their opinions and advice though posting and PMs. Everyone seems to rally and protect the honest collectors on this forum and I appreciate that. >>
Just curious.
Did you contact the lawyer some time between the OP at 9:04am and this post at 1:14pm?
Was wondering the same thing
I recently had a lawyer draft a letter for me (without his letterhead because I hadn't retained him),
But it was only $120, and took him half an hour.
So not every lawyer is gonna charge $1000 to do this.
But it was three days before I could consult with him. I was surprised to see the OP got legal advice so quickly.
But best of luck, I hope you are made whole on this deal.
<< <i>
<< <i>I contacted a lawyer and I am going to follow her advice. My deadline is going to be next Friday before I proceed with what she wants me to do. She advised me to refrain from giving any details in a public forum at this time.
Huge thanks to everyone that gave their opinions and advice though posting and PMs. Everyone seems to rally and protect the honest collectors on this forum and I appreciate that. >>
Just curious.
Did you contact the lawyer some time between the OP at 9:04am and this post at 1:14pm? >>
Lawyers do consults on Saturdays?
I'm more interested in knowing who the lawyer is now rather than the AH?
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.
-George F. Will
I am guessing the AH owner might peruse this forum here and there and this thread was designed to be a warning of sorts? Maybe you already had the lawyer when you started this thread.
All that aside, you have tremendous leverage in being able to drop the name anywhere and everywhere, as long as everything you've stated is 100% true.
TheClockworkAngelCollection
I have nothing to hide here. I initially wanted to get advice to see how I should proceed. I didn't think that lawyering up was necessary but now I know it is the best course of action. Luckily my neighbor is ready to rock. I plan to get my money but I am also going to go out of my way to let people know what this guy is all about.
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.
-George F. Will
<< <i>She advised me to refrain from giving any details in a public forum at this time. >>
Legal advice is overrated
It appeared that you had a problem.
Consulted a lawyer.
But, also just wanted some support here?
But, it appears that you didn't state that you had "already" contacted a lawyer to be clear in the OP.
Second, you're not taking the advice of the lawyer. That may be very detrimental. For one thing, you've taken some of the leverage your lawyer had with the element of surprise.
Keep in mind, and I'm only guessing. Someone has - now - contacted the AH about your post.
<< <i>A member of this forum who I have tremendous respect for just sent me a PM and apparently had a similar experience with this AH. My blood is boiling and I honestly don't care about the money anymore. The auction house is called "Small Traditions" and the owner is Dave Thorn. He apparently has a long track record of screwing people over. That is on me for not doing my research before consigning a card. I gave him my '71 Topps Munson for his November Holiday Auction.
I have nothing to hide here. I initially wanted to get advice to see how I should proceed. I didn't think that lawyering up was necessary but now I know it is the best course of action. Luckily my neighbor is ready to rock. >>
Plus, I think your lawyer would tell you this is "business" and don't make it personal.
I wish you the best, and want to see you get your money back - and I sure understand your frustration and anger. But, bringing this to a forum right now? Probably not a good idea until your lawyer believed you could use the "public leverage."
This is just my opinion.
Good luck however this plays out
TheClockworkAngelCollection
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i>Regardless what happened when and some people playing detective... I hope things work out for you and now you have made others aware of problem individuals... >>
I have no problem with people playing detective, especially since there is a history here of people posting and not being truthful about their intentions. Between a friend I grew up with, a college roommate, my neighbor, and some business associates, I could have spoken to 5 or 6 different lawyers that could have helped me immediately after my initial post. Obviously people don't know me, so I have no problem with forum members digging a little deeper. I just don't want the focus to shift away from this seller's dishonest business tactics to how I got legal advice in 4 hours on a Saturday.
My intentions were to find out my options, vent (apparently I let my anger get the best of me), and make sure that this doesn't happen to honest people. This forum has been helpful for me since I got back into collecting and I want to be able to help others once I figured out how to navigate thorough my dilemma. A quick Google search showed that this is not the first time he has pulled this nonsense. I didn't do my due diligence when selecting an AH. That is on me. Lesson learned.
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.
-George F. Will
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I just purged my account info and emailed to be removed from his mailing / email list and told him why. Even though it likely does not apply to this situation, the lame reply!
The response, ''No problem. We prefer not to have customers who don't understand simple mathematics. That is to say, we cannot make payouts with money that we don't have. Collecting funds without the backing of eBay is more challenging than you can possibly imagine. All it takes is a single buyer to overspend and screw up months worth of work, which is the reason most other auctions off of eBay, even the biggest ones in the industry, state 30-45 business days for their terms. So we do what we can, and I understand that not everyone else will. That said, I do not see a record for your account. Have you edited it? PLMK, and I will deactivate it immediately.'' >>
If one is gonna run a business?
Ya gotta have a "line of credit" in case things go south for a bit.
If the card was sold - I'm sure it wasn't sent till the funds were received. Otherwise return the card with a big apology.
Plus, I'm not excited about the fact that consigners have to wait "on a list" to be paid based on AH's cash flow?
<< <i>state 30-45 business days for their terms >>
Appears the OP has been waiting way longer than that? Plus, if the AH "can't" pay? Why not be up front so the consigner doesn't go nuts thinking they're never going to see the money.
<< <i>My intentions were to find out my options, vent (apparently I let my anger get the best of me), and make sure that this doesn't happen to honest people. This forum has been helpful for me since I got back into collecting and I want to be able to help others once I figured out how to navigate thorough my dilemma. >>
Thank you for naming this seller and potentially saving other board members the same grief he is putting you through.
Stuff happens... it's the way he's been (not) working with you that is problematic. If the winning bidder(s) on your item(s) didn't pay, no problem... he should have immediately asked you if you wanted your item(s) back or for him to keep your item(s) to be relisted by a set date agreeable to your needs.
You're right, this isn't the first time people have encountered issues with ST, including some on this site. The manner in which he responded to djr is consistent with other accounts of Dave being dismissive and belittling. Given this lack of customer service skills and his apparent free cash flow issues, your coming forward was the right thing to do by the board.
All the best to you in getting this resolved quickly.
Snorto~
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>30 year coin/currency dealer here and we've had this happen before. You are getting strung along for whatever reason, and a professional auction house doesn't do that. Invest $50 or $100 with an attorney and have him write a demand letter setting a time certain and ask for the full amount owed...and that failure to comply will result in a small claims action (that you will definitely win). >>
I would be leery of any attorney who is so in need of work he would accept $50 or $100 to get involved with your little case. To me it would be free or $1,000 but maybe that's just me. >>
Many lawyers will draft a simple demand letter for $100 or so (give or take, depending on how detailed it needs to be) as a courtesy for a client; ours has done it for us more than once- and he is far from being "in need of work".
Now if we wanted him to officially get involved in a case, that's of course going to run a lot extra... but that's not what I was talking about.
Back to the OP...if the card wasn't paid for then the AH has it. You need to get tough with these guys otherwise at some point you may be out both card and money, especially if this guy's having financial issues and decides to file the big B. Follow the attorney's advice as to how to proceed and make sure you're the proverbial squeaky wheel. Impress upon the AH guy that you are going to make him your new hobby until you either get paid or get the item back.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona.
-George F. Will
4 months is absurd
<< <i>Just want to update this thread. I set a firm deadline last Friday and received a check that just cleared. The auction house in question stated in a previous email to another CU member that he considers 30 - 45 days reasonable to receive payment after consigning a card. He paid me almost 4 months later. I am glad that it worked out but there are still a lot of red flags and I won't do business with him again. Everyone on this message board now can make an informed decision if they choose this auction house. >>
Happy to see you got your money.