If you sell coins on eBay, you need to understand this or it will cost you money
TopographicOceans
Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
In this thread, nankraut didn't get a coin he rightfully won. and there was misinformation about how eBay works.
Just as the government tries to control your actions regarding taxes (such as a deduction for home mortgage interest) eBay tries to control sellers with their final value fees - either by keeping them or removing a discount when too many transactions go bad.
When eBay made changes back in August 2014 they introduced seller defects. Buyers can still leave neutral or negative feedback, which are meant to inform other buyers about the actions of a seller (and these count as defects as well) but instead of using the Detailed Seller Ratings to determine if a seller gets a Top Rated discount of 20% on their final value fees, they now track defects, and sellers need to have less than a 2% defect rate in order to get their discount.
One good thing eBay did was remove the DSR for Shipping and Handling Charges, since this was clearly stated in the listing and the buyers agreed to pay that rate. I learned some people will give low DSR's when I charge $3.50 to ship a PCGS coin.
eBay found the number one thing that annoys buyers is the seller not shipping an item after the buyer wins (or buys) the listing.
So first, there is no such thing on eBay as "subject to prior sale." If you list an item and don't ship it - that's a defect on your account.
There are only two choices for a seller to cancel a transaction:
1) Out of stock (the seller gets a defect and does not get their final value fees refunded)
2) Buyer requested the sale be canceled (eBay will email the buyer to confirm and then the seller gets their FV fees refunded if the buyer agrees)
eBay also follows the money. If the seller issues a PayPal refund but does not cancel the sale, eBay will charge the seller with a defect.
So these are reasons sellers can get a defect and if you have a defect rate greater than 2%, you do not get a 20% discount on your monthly invoice.
As of August 20, 2014, the transaction "defect rate" has replaced four individual detailed seller rating requirements in evaluating seller performance. This new rating may impact your status.
The following transaction-related defects affect your defect rate and seller status:
• Detailed seller rating of 1, 2 or 3 for item as described
• Detailed seller rating of 1 for shipping time
• Negative or neutral feedback
• Return initiated for a reason that indicates the item was not as described
• eBay Money Back Guarantee (previously known as eBay Buyer Protection) or PayPal Purchase Protection case opened for an item not received or an item not as described
• Seller-cancelled transactions
• Starting with the August 20 evaluation, to meet eBay's minimum standard, sellers can have up to a maximum 5% of transactions with one or more transaction defects over the most recent evaluation period. A maximum 2% will allow a seller to qualify as an eBay Top Rated Seller. Only transactions with US buyers count.
• Transactions with international buyers count toward your global performance rating. For global sales, sellers will need to maintain a defect rate of 5% or lower to meet minimum global seller performance standards, and a defect rate of 2% or lower to meet global Top Rated Seller standards.
Just as the government tries to control your actions regarding taxes (such as a deduction for home mortgage interest) eBay tries to control sellers with their final value fees - either by keeping them or removing a discount when too many transactions go bad.
When eBay made changes back in August 2014 they introduced seller defects. Buyers can still leave neutral or negative feedback, which are meant to inform other buyers about the actions of a seller (and these count as defects as well) but instead of using the Detailed Seller Ratings to determine if a seller gets a Top Rated discount of 20% on their final value fees, they now track defects, and sellers need to have less than a 2% defect rate in order to get their discount.
One good thing eBay did was remove the DSR for Shipping and Handling Charges, since this was clearly stated in the listing and the buyers agreed to pay that rate. I learned some people will give low DSR's when I charge $3.50 to ship a PCGS coin.
eBay found the number one thing that annoys buyers is the seller not shipping an item after the buyer wins (or buys) the listing.
So first, there is no such thing on eBay as "subject to prior sale." If you list an item and don't ship it - that's a defect on your account.
There are only two choices for a seller to cancel a transaction:
1) Out of stock (the seller gets a defect and does not get their final value fees refunded)
2) Buyer requested the sale be canceled (eBay will email the buyer to confirm and then the seller gets their FV fees refunded if the buyer agrees)
eBay also follows the money. If the seller issues a PayPal refund but does not cancel the sale, eBay will charge the seller with a defect.
So these are reasons sellers can get a defect and if you have a defect rate greater than 2%, you do not get a 20% discount on your monthly invoice.
As of August 20, 2014, the transaction "defect rate" has replaced four individual detailed seller rating requirements in evaluating seller performance. This new rating may impact your status.
The following transaction-related defects affect your defect rate and seller status:
• Detailed seller rating of 1, 2 or 3 for item as described
• Detailed seller rating of 1 for shipping time
• Negative or neutral feedback
• Return initiated for a reason that indicates the item was not as described
• eBay Money Back Guarantee (previously known as eBay Buyer Protection) or PayPal Purchase Protection case opened for an item not received or an item not as described
• Seller-cancelled transactions
• Starting with the August 20 evaluation, to meet eBay's minimum standard, sellers can have up to a maximum 5% of transactions with one or more transaction defects over the most recent evaluation period. A maximum 2% will allow a seller to qualify as an eBay Top Rated Seller. Only transactions with US buyers count.
• Transactions with international buyers count toward your global performance rating. For global sales, sellers will need to maintain a defect rate of 5% or lower to meet minimum global seller performance standards, and a defect rate of 2% or lower to meet global Top Rated Seller standards.
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Comments
Sounds like is STILL getting worst by the month
<< <i>One good thing eBay did was remove the DSR for Shipping and Handling Charges, >>
The DSR for s&h is still in place if you charge for shipping. If you offer free s&h it's removed.
I'm in Canada. I shipped an item with tracking to the USA. After 5 business days the buyer opened a claim asking "where is my item?". The item was shipped the day after payment was made. The tracking number was uploaded the same day. Because the buyer opened a case, I get a defect. All this despite the fact that international shipments of that type will take 6-10 business days on average. More if customs decides to take their sweet time. To get that "defect" removed, I'd need to call up Ebay and it would easily be a 30+ minute affair.
My last three true auctions have sold for a loss and they were in the bullion category.
<< <i>One good thing eBay did was remove the DSR for Shipping and Handling Charges, >>
<< <i>The DSR for s&h is still in place if you charge for shipping. If you offer free s&h it's removed. >>
Which, when you're selling 2-3 figure coins, charging for shipping is almost a requirement. And the buyer can still neg you on your DSR's because they think you should've shipped for free.
This is what ebay "Fast 'n Free" garbage is doing to the smaller, part time sellers.
eBay is actually being reasonable here.
The S/H is posted and buyers agree to pay that and sellers just need to describe their items accurately and ship when they are sold and paid for.
The defect policy is just ebays way of clawing back the 20% fee discount. Somewhere along the line they have to change it though or there will be no sellers left.
Defects are increasing as time goes by because buyers are catching on to the problem. Competitors could easily destroy you by ordering things from you then clicking where is my item and then closing the case a few days later.
The problem is once you are in the trouble zone how can you fix it? The answer is , you can't. If You hit 4% then you are only 1% away from being thrown off . If you stop selling on that account you are toast because as the number of sales goes down the percentage of defects will go up over 5% and its over. If you sell at the same rate it will stay at 4% until the oldest defects age off. Which is ok as long as some other idiot doesn't trigger another defect as you wait for a year or more to elapse.
<< <i>So long as they don't interfere with me and my customer, we shouldn't have any problems >>
Since eBay is back to using the "just a venue" defense, they love you.
<< <i>If you sell coins on eBay, you need to understand this or it will cost you money >>
it will only cost you money if you are a Powerseller and it will only cost you the discount you enjoy for being a great seller. Your title is misleading and should read "If you receive an ebay FVF seller discount, you need to understand this or you could lose your discount."
Appears you are complaining about the Powerseller program for those who ebay classifies as "Top Rated Sellers." Seller defects affect sellers who are getting additional seller benefits from this program. Ebay has a vested interest in rewarding sellers who consistently deliver outstanding customer service. They established the "Top Rated Seller" program to reward these sellers. Not all sellers care to take the required extra steps or are responsible enough to do so. Those that do have what it takes, can qualify as Top Rated Sellers to earn 20% discount on their FVF by further meeting the program's Powerseller program .
I appreciate ebay taking steps to reward and identify good sellers, I prefer to buy from good sellers. And if these sellers quit being top notch sellers I am also glad that ebay removes their reward. This program and its "defect" penalties have no affect on the sellers who are not receiving Top Rated Seller benefits.
Read the full and correct story on this program here.
Those that remember the early, risky "garage sale" days of ebay appreciate their steps over the years to make it a safer place to buy or to sell. Bad experiences on ebay can usually be avoided by simply understanding their procedures and their rules for both sellers and for buyers. Wanna a table in their bourse? Follow their rules.
Again, "defects" primarily affect sellers who are enjoying the benefits of being Top Rated sellers. Avoiding defects is their motivation to continue being a top rated seller and to provide top rated service to their buyers. Nothing wrong with this program at all. Sellers and buyers benefit from it.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
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<< <i>So long as they don't interfere with me and my customer, we shouldn't have any problems >>
Since eBay is back to using the "just a venue" defense, they love you. >>
There's no love between ebay and I. Let's not kid ourselves. It is an entity made up of giants, pissing on the shoulders of peasants.
<< <i>So first, there is no such thing on eBay as "subject to prior sale." If you list an item and don't ship it - that's a defect on your account. >>
Many items on ebay are also for sale elsewhere and are subject to prior sale and I have no problem with a seller telling me so with the "subject to prior sale" statement. Note that many sellers use this statement only to motivate a buyer who is sitting on the fence.
A seller is free to remove the listing if it sells elsewhere first. If he does and he has ebay bids, he pays an ebay FVF on the highest bid. A responsible seller who sells on ebay and at the same time other places will, once he has a bid or a buyer, remove the item from other sale venues. Ebay does not and cannot force sellers to advertise an item with them exclusively. They can and do punish sellers, by charging a FVF, for failing to following through with an ebay auction or a sale.
<< <i>There are only two choices for a seller to cancel a transaction:
1) Out of stock (the seller gets a defect and does not get their final value fees refunded)
2) Buyer requested the sale be canceled (eBay will email the buyer to confirm and then the seller gets their FV fees refunded if the buyer agrees) >>
A seller can send a request through ebay to a buyer requesting to cancel a transaction for just about any reason. If buyer agrees, seller will not be charged a final valuation fee. If payment has already been made a smart buyer will first get his refund before agreeing.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots
<< <i>Again, "defects" primarily affect sellers who are enjoying the benefits of being Top Rated sellers. Avoiding defects is their motivation to continue being a top rated seller and to provide top rated service to their buyers. Nothing wrong with this program at all. Sellers and buyers benefit from it. >>
It's also motivation to do stupid things that go well above and beyond what is reasonable to meet what eBay considers expected. One of my favorites involves vacations. If I'm going away, I make sure my last listings end at least a week before departing. But if someone waits two weeks to pay (a week late per my terms) I still have to ship within 24 hours. The result, I have to bring inventory and shipping supplies wherever I may go. After all, my other choice is to cancel the sale from the buyer, and that doesn't seem customer friendly. What ever happened to a quick email between two reasonable parties? "I'll be away for the next week. I'll ship as soon as I get back from my vacation. Thanks for your understanding."
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<< <i>One good thing eBay did was remove the DSR for Shipping and Handling Charges, >>
<< <i>The DSR for s&h is still in place if you charge for shipping. If you offer free s&h it's removed. >>
Which, when you're selling 2-3 figure coins, charging for shipping is almost a requirement. And the buyer can still neg you on your DSR's because they think you should've shipped for free.
This is what ebay "Fast 'n Free" garbage is doing to the smaller, part time sellers. >>
Unless you are selling on consignment, you might as well eat the shipping costs, and hope buyers realize this and bid more. EBay and Paypal get theri cut from the shipping charges anyway.
The 1,2,3 item as described is a joke as well. I got a 3 from a guy who got an auction steal. I asked him what about the description caused him to leave a 3, his answer was he was using his phone and it was small and must have got the wrong star. I have free shipping and 1 day handling so only thing they could enter. I called eBay to see how to get the defect changed, and after an hr on hold to someone in India/Sri Lanka I was told that a 3 star is not a 'defect'. What? than why is it keeping me from toprated and costing me 20%.
They got me for not uploading tracking and post office confirmation last Monday on Presidents Day from Sundays sales. I called them up and told them it is USPS holiday...
<< <i>Those that remember the early, risky "garage sale" days of ebay appreciate their steps over the years to make it a safer place to buy or to sell. >>
I couldn't disagree more. eBay used to be fun and a great place for both buyers and sellers. Now it has practically been ruined by heavy handed mismanagement. I don't think you realize how many people absolutely hate eBay, and rightly so.
<< <i>
<< <i>Those that remember the early, risky "garage sale" days of ebay appreciate their steps over the years to make it a safer place to buy or to sell. >>
I couldn't disagree more. eBay used to be fun and a great place for both buyers and sellers. Now it has practically been ruined by heavy handed mismanagement. I don't think you realize how many people absolutely hate eBay, and rightly so. >>
So you disagree that ebay has reduced customer risk over the years? Safety is far more important than fun when it comes to business. Those that hate it should just quit using it and quit trying to change the opinion of those that love it.
While there are exceptions, I have learned that most ebay bashers usually have a good reason - they didn't take or were not aware of the available steps to protect themselves and got burned. Successful ebayers tend to be satisfied with the program. The number of coins listed and bought on ebay tells me there are far fewer bashers than there are success stories.
<< <i>Unless you are selling on consignment, you might as well eat the shipping costs, and hope buyers realize this and bid more. >>
Shipping, like selling fees, is a cost of doing business. Why not offer free shipping and start your auctions at a price that covers your costs and is not less than the minimum amount you want for the item? The result of starting at .99 cents creates a lot of the dislike of using ebay. Use ebay to sell, not to auction to the highest low bidder.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>While there are exceptions, I have learned that most ebay bashers usually have a good reason - they didn't take or were not aware of the available steps to protect themselves and got burned. Successful ebayers tend to be satisfied with the program. The number of coins listed and bought on ebay tells me there are far fewer bashers than there are success stories. >>
derryb, "you nailed it" with that comment.
<< <i>So you disagree that ebay has reduced customer risk over the years? >>
Risk has been entirely shifted to sellers, many of whom have been defrauded by dishonest buyers with eBay and Paypal's complicity. Consequently, quality sellers have left eBay in droves. Many other sellers have been thrown off permanently by eBay for the flimsiest of irrational reasons.
<< <i>Those that hate it should just quit using it and quit trying to change the opinion of those that love it. >>
Meaning anyone who disagrees with you should just silence themselves? That's not how the world works. People should be warned of the dangers of selling on eBay, and the abusiveness of both eBay and Paypal.
<< <i>While there are exceptions, I have learned that most ebay bashers usually have a good reason - they didn't take or were not aware of the available steps to protect themselves and got burned. >>
Please don't pretend that you've done some kind of scientific study on this topic. The website ecommercebytes.com contradicts everything you say and is a more authoritative source.
<< <i>The number of coins listed and bought on ebay tells me there are far fewer bashers than there are success stories. >>
True auctions of quality coins have significantly dried up in recent years. Overpriced Buy It Nows have taken their place. The Google downgrade and the security hack have both reduced buyer traffic on eBay.
<< <i>Unless you are selling on consignment, you might as well eat the shipping costs, and hope buyers realize this and bid more. >>
Why should eBay dictate shipping cost, much less charge the seller a commission on the shipping cost? This is just more of eBay's heavy handed ruination of the site. Buyers are willing to pay a reasonable shipping cost and "free shipping" is a stupid and counterproductive gimmick. Buyers should not be allowed to evaluate sellers based on shipping cost, which was a price agreed upon in advance. The DSR for shipping cost is merely an attempt to coerce "free shipping."
All eBay cares about is their profitability, not whether sellers are treated fairly or make a profit. eBay was built by word of mouth, and it is dying by word of mouth.
Plenty of quality sellers and quality coins on ebay.
When did ebay start dictating shipping costs? You are not clear on how it works, no wonder you bash.
My only problem with ebay is forcing sellers to accept credit cards through paypal, putting them at risk of a chargeback that is not covered under seller protection. Then again any merchant who accepts credit cards faces this risk.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>You are not clear on how it works, no wonder you bash. >>
I've sold $250K worth of coins on eBay in just the last few years. I know how it works, and I don't like the coercive changes that eBay has made.
Instead of selling on eBay, my duplicate coins now go elsewhere. Instead of paying Heritage or Stack's Bowers with Paypal, I now go out of my way to avoid using Paypal. Any company that I do business with that only uses Paypal as a credit card processor, I ask them to find another processor. I want as little of my money as possible going to the despicable eBay and Paypal.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>then why do you say ebay dictates shipping cost? >>
Because if a seller doesn't offer "free shipping" then he can be given a DSR rating for shipping cost. If he receives more than a few low DSR ratings for shipping cost, he will lose his final value fee discount and/or permanently lose his selling privileges. Tens of thousands of sellers with 100% feedback have permanently lost their selling privileges solely based on DSR ratings, something eBay promised would never happen when the DSR system was instituted by the way.
There are enough crackpot buyers out there that many sellers will not take this risk and instead offer "free shipping." It's classic coercion by eBay. Nobody wants to lose their discount, or their selling privileges, because some unreasonable buyer thought shipping should be free instead of the $3.99 he agreed to pay before placing his bid.
As for me, I'm not willing to put up with this kind of nonsense and sell my coins elsewhere.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>Everytime a seller gets a ding, an angel gets its wings! >>
Now that's funny!
<< <i>
<< <i>then why do you say ebay dictates shipping cost? >>
Because if a seller doesn't offer "free shipping" then he can be given a DSR rating for shipping cost. If he receives more than a few low DSR ratings for shipping cost, he will lose his final value fee discount and/or permanently lose his selling privileges. Tens of thousands of sellers with 100% feedback have permanently lost their selling privileges solely based on DSR ratings, something eBay promised would never happen when the DSR system was instituted by the way.
There are enough crackpot buyers out there that many sellers will not take this risk and instead offer "free shipping." It's classic coercion by eBay. Nobody wants to lose their discount, or their selling privileges, because some unreasonable buyer thought shipping should be free instead of the $3.99 he agreed to pay before placing his bid.
As for me, I'm not willing to put up with this kind of nonsense and sell my coins elsewhere. >>
Looks like your own web site accepts PayPal.
<< <i>Looks like your own web site accepts PayPal.
Interesting that you say that. When given the opportunity to save 2.9% on my site by not using Paypal, everybody sends a check or money order. Nobody even asks me about Paypal, they just say payment is in the mail.
Years ago people could pay with check or money order on eBay; but, eBay took that option away, one more example of their coercion and control.
<< <i>Years ago people could pay with check or money order on eBay; but, eBay took that option away, one more example of their coercion and control. >>
Maybe it's a better way of insuring that sellers actually get their money.
FWIW, a seller can still accept checks or money orders for an ebay sale. Took in a $950 postal money order last week.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
<< <i>FWIW, a seller can still accept checks or money orders for an ebay sale. Took in a $950 postal money order last week. >>
If your buyer insists on paying that way, I suppose you can accept it; however, you cannot ask for checks or money orders in your eBay listing. Consequently, payments by check or money order are almost nonexistent on eBay. eBay doesn't want to lose that Paypal skim; so, you get told how to do business.