The 1930's: Trade Dollars and Shanghai (update: translation)
stealer
Posts: 3,998 ✭✭✭✭
I found this image recently, and although it only pertains to foreign currencies I figured some here may want to see it as well. It's a rent receipt from the 30's in Shanghai requesting some amount in "Mexican Dollars." At that point in history, coinage such as the American, British, Spanish and Japanese Trade Dollars were still used in everyday transactions, although the general form of currency used was paper money.
For those of you interested, a rough translation of what the writing from right to left, up to down:
For the 18th building/apartment
The rent for the month of June
The amount is 46 Dollars (Mexican)
Water is paid for by the renter
Pay to Mao Ping bank
Owner's name
For those of you interested, a rough translation of what the writing from right to left, up to down:
For the 18th building/apartment
The rent for the month of June
The amount is 46 Dollars (Mexican)
Water is paid for by the renter
Pay to Mao Ping bank
Owner's name
0
Comments
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
--Severian the Lame
If not, that would indicate that ~100-year old silver coinage was still being circulated widely enough to warrant a specific preference and a pre-printed receipt.
--Severian the Lame
My YouTube Channel
As a result, the Mexicans (and other South American countries) continued to mint 8 reales coins throughout the 19th century to meet the demand.
The coins were still sufficiently well-known that the San Francisco Mint re-struck some 1898 Mexican 8 reales coins in 1949 for use by the Chinese Nationalist government.
A couple of years ago, Chopmark News, the journal of the Chopmark Collectors Club reprinted some excerpts from the memoirs of a US Navy officer who was in Chine in the 1920s and 1930s. He mentioned the 8 reales coins several times: Link
Check out the Southern Gold Society
1898 Mexico Peso (not eight reales) for use in paying soldiers of Nationalist China who were fighting the Communists.
Mexico Peso 1898 (1949 Restrike)
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
China Mint, and the Bank of China, in 1984.
I of course asked about U.S. Trade dollars;
everyone had pretty much the same reply -
they themselves had heard rumors of large
quantities of U.S. Trade dollars in China, but
thru their contacts, both in the major cities,
and the smaller cities, no Trade Dollar hoards,
or even a few single coins, were reported or known.
They had looked into these stories since the
1970's (maybe earlier), and they had never made
any connection with any Trade Dollars from the U.S.
They seemed to feel that any Trade Dollars would
have been sold or melted either in the 1920's, or
certainly after the communists took over in 1949.
As a side note, all of the Japanese dealers I ever met,
starting in 1973 (those that came to the U.S., including
Mr. Oka from Taisai S + C) and those I met at coin shows
in Japan, always said the same thing: They would never
buy a Circ./BU U.S. Trade Dollar because of the stories
of large hoards of them in China - they would ONLY buy
Proof Trade dollars.....because of the stories.
However, I'm not aware of anyone, anywhere, ever finding,
or seeing, any Trade Dollars in mainland China........
If they're there, apparently know one remembers where !
<< <i>In 1949 the San Francisco Mint struck 2,000,000 and the Mexico City Mint struck 8,000,000 copies of the
1898 Mexico Peso (not eight reales) for use in paying soldiers of Nationalist China who were fighting the Communists.
Mexico Peso 1898 (1949 Restrike)
That's awesome! I didn't know that.
<< <i>In 1949 the San Francisco Mint struck 2,000,000 and the Mexico City Mint struck 8,000,000 copies of the
1898 Mexico Peso (not eight reales) for use in paying soldiers of Nationalist China who were fighting the Communists.
Mexico Peso 1898 (1949 Restrike)
You can tell the San Francisco strikes from the Mexico CIty strikes by either the reeding or the denticles, but I cannot lay my hand on the book that says which and how.
<< <i>I went to China, and met people from the
China Mint, and the Bank of China, in 1984.
I of course asked about U.S. Trade dollars;
everyone had pretty much the same reply -
they themselves had heard rumors of large
quantities of U.S. Trade dollars in China, but
thru their contacts, both in the major cities,
and the smaller cities, no Trade Dollar hoards,
or even a few single coins, were reported or known.
They had looked into these stories since the
1970's (maybe earlier), and they had never made
any connection with any Trade Dollars from the U.S.
They seemed to feel that any Trade Dollars would
have been sold or melted either in the 1920's, or
certainly after the communists took over in 1949.
As a side note, all of the Japanese dealers I ever met,
starting in 1973 (those that came to the U.S., including
Mr. Oka from Taisai S + C) and those I met at coin shows
in Japan, always said the same thing: They would never
buy a Circ./BU U.S. Trade Dollar because of the stories
of large hoards of them in China - they would ONLY buy
Proof Trade dollars.....because of the stories.
However, I'm not aware of anyone, anywhere, ever finding,
or seeing, any Trade Dollars in mainland China........
If they're there, apparently know one remembers where ! >>
Back when Ebay first started there was quite a few Chinese sellers selling real coins. Although those days are long gone. Forum member DRR bought quite a few from over there.
I hadn't heard the stories that suggested the Trade Dollars were still supposed to be in China.
My general understanding is that, in the 19th century at least, it was common to melt the Trade Dollars into bullion, which was then exported to India to pay for opium.
From what I've read, back when the British first started importing tea from China (in the 18th century or earlier), the Chinese would only sell tea for silver (not any manufactured goods). As a result, the British ran a big trade deficit with the Chinese. When the British discovered that they could sell opium to the Chinese, they would only do so for silver - which basically solved their trade deficit problem (and goes a long way to explain why the British were willing to fight two wars with the Chinese to make sure they could shove opium "down the throats" of the Chinese.)
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>I went to China, and met people from the
China Mint, and the Bank of China, in 1984.
I of course asked about U.S. Trade dollars;
everyone had pretty much the same reply -
they themselves had heard rumors of large
quantities of U.S. Trade dollars in China, but
thru their contacts, both in the major cities,
and the smaller cities, no Trade Dollar hoards,
or even a few single coins, were reported or known.
They had looked into these stories since the
1970's (maybe earlier), and they had never made
any connection with any Trade Dollars from the U.S.
They seemed to feel that any Trade Dollars would
have been sold or melted either in the 1920's, or
certainly after the communists took over in 1949.
As a side note, all of the Japanese dealers I ever met,
starting in 1973 (those that came to the U.S., including
Mr. Oka from Taisai S + C) and those I met at coin shows
in Japan, always said the same thing: They would never
buy a Circ./BU U.S. Trade Dollar because of the stories
of large hoards of them in China - they would ONLY buy
Proof Trade dollars.....because of the stories.
However, I'm not aware of anyone, anywhere, ever finding,
or seeing, any Trade Dollars in mainland China........
If they're there, apparently know one remembers where ! >>
Wait are you saying the Bowers recanting of the repatriation of bags is an urban legend ?
both European and U.S., mention
the rumors of Trade Dollars in China.
Apparently, they were stories made up
because it might have made sense to
some people that there 'should' be some
in China.
As mentioned, I couldn't resist asking about
them everywhere, and to everyone, I met
in China, and never heard a word that they
existed there.
I can also say that when I went to the very
first Coin Show in modern, mainland China,
I anticipated seeing at least a few that the
public, or other Chinese dealers, would bring
to the show for sale. Never saw a single coin.
My biggest surprise, as far as what I saw at the
very first show there, was the number of 1964
Kennedy half dollars that the public had, and
brought into the show, wondering what they
were worth..........
One of the keys to my collection, the 78-CC, was purchased from a California dealer who said he purchased it out of Japan.
Frank Rose, the godfather of chopmark collecting who wrote the book "Chopmarks", was a merchant marine and put together probably the greatest collection ever of chopmarked coins, including Trade Dollars, on his visits to Asia in the 1960s and 1970s.
So, there were some Trade Dollars trickling out of China, at least up until about 2000.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
46 Mexican dollars sounds like a lot of money in the early 1930's. That's about 35 ounces of pure silver.
Of course silver was cheap, and if you figure 35 ounces at 25 cents an ounce that's $8.75 U.S.
<< <i>Cool!
46 Mexican dollars sounds like a lot of money in the early 1930's. That's about 35 ounces of pure silver.
Of course silver was cheap, and if you figure 35 ounces at 25 cents an ounce that's $8.75 U.S. >>
I was a bit surprised at the rent too. Then again I don't know what the conversion rates were like back then. Depending on what region of Shanghai this receipt is from, the renters could have been very wealthy.
<< <i>However, I'm not aware of anyone, anywhere, ever finding, or seeing, any Trade Dollars in mainland China........ If they're there, apparently know one remembers where ! >>
Well there is still plenty of Chop Mark Trade silver still over there, I bought this one from China just yesterday. Has to be American stuff too one would think