The tracking says the coin is en route, and I'm thinking, hmm, what's going on in the field between the stars and Liberty's profile? Is that toning, some gunk, some glue? is it marks, grafitti? are they scratches, pits, tooling? Something is there, how bad is it? this is a rare coin with a lot more detail than the ones I've been considering to fill the hole in my set, and as most here know, I'm more forgiving than the average collector of problems on rare coins and have been known to buy Genuine Details coins.. I'm just a little bit surprised no one has guessed Genuine, maybe folks is just bein' nice? Anyway, the price was right no matter what's going on in the fields, and at the rim at about 7 o'clock on the reverse.. rim ding, bit of toning, some gunk? A quick distance shot of the slab..
<< <i>The tracking says the coin is en route, and I'm thinking, hmm, what's going on in the field between the stars and Liberty's profile? Is that toning, some gunk, some glue? is it marks, grafitti? are they scratches, pits, tooling? Something is there, how bad is it? this is a rare coin with a lot more detail than the ones I've been considering to fill the hole in my set, and as most here know, I'm more forgiving than the average collector of problems on rare coins and have been known to buy Genuine Details coins.. I'm just a little bit surprised no one has guessed Genuine, maybe folks is just bein' nice? Anyway, the price was right no matter what's going on in the fields, and at the rim at about 7 o'clock on the reverse.. rim ding, bit of toning, some gunk? A quick distance shot of the slab and prizes..
To be honest and obvious, the pictures are so bad the coin could be any grade between F-VF or non-graded. These are only guesses based on poor pictures.
I like the distance shots better than the seller photos - seems like it's a great original dirty silver in hand. Also, the label explains your recent 5/4/2 post in the old 5/4/3 thread. So it was unattributed by the seller and the label? Awesome capture, in any event. I really enjoy the progress in your early quarters thread.
Based on the OP pics I was going as low as F15 and VF20 tops. Now I see a VF25 with a good shot at 30. In fact VF30 sounds right looking at the new pics.
So the package arrives at my post office, and I go to pick it up, and it's one of those plastic envelopes that the sender used a mix of old and new stamps, including one of the new $2 inverted jennys and a number of 45c stamps, the slab is wrapped in a page of newspaper, a layer of bubble wrap and tape, no other receipt or note, but that's ok, outside of a little easily removed glue residue, the the slab is fine so of course the coin is fine
Here are the pictures above cropped a little closer, she's attributed Browning-1 on the label and was advertised as B-1 R-5 by the seller, so not a cherrypick
running out of steam on the guesses, this might be the last ttt before the grade.. in the meantime, we'll see if this works, here's a link to a beautiful eye candy 1825 B-1 from CoinFacts in multi-color toned PCGS AU-58, if this link works check out these wonderful pictures, and you should also be able to click to enlarge, wow, in particular the interesting recut arrowheads Link to 1825 B-1 plate coin
Hey, cool! That "was"my 25 B-1 from my personal collection. A really enjoyable high grade example. Can you believe I paid B & M $2,645 back in 01! I remember, I was camping in Sequioa (California Redwoods) shortly after that auction with family. Some of the most beautiful redwoods....I actually carried that slab around everywhere we hiked! My wife thought I was crazy, LOL.
It was later sold to a good friend who still owns it. Can't tell ya how many guys wanted it! We made it the Plate coin in our quarter book.
Persuing choice countermarked coinage on 2 reales.
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
<< <i>Hey, cool! That "was"my 25 B-1 from my personal collection. A really enjoyable high grade example. Can you believe I paid B & M $2,645 back in 01! I remember, I was camping in Sequioa (California Redwoods) shortly after that auction with family. Some of the most beautiful redwoods....I actually carried that slab around everywhere we hiked! My wife thought I was crazy, LOL.
It was later sold to a good friend who still owns it. Can't tell ya how many guys wanted it! We made it the Plate coin in our quarter book. >>
Coin flip between Varlis and Athena for first prize and drawing one of the 57 entries for second prize will be forthcoming, along with better pictures and some discussion
Hey Bailey - I took a look at the PCGS photograde and some thing is wrong - Your fine 15 doesnt match up with photograde. Your coin looks more like a VF!!! I think PCGS missed it.
<< <i>I took a look at the PCGS photograde and some thing is wrong - Your fine 15 doesnt match up with photograde. Your coin looks more like a VF!!! I think PCGS missed it. >>
Yes, I am very curious to see some better pics of this coin. Obviously it looks much better than your run-of-the-mill F-12 BQ, hence all the higher guesses. I went low partly to be pugnacious and partly because I couldn't tell from the original photo how much wear was really there versus how much crust was causing shadows in the curls and feathers. I was guessing it had been netted down due to some kind of issue(s), whether minor scratches or dings or whatever. But it was impossible to tell from the original picture. In my experience, TPGs will let such issues slide (sometimes) on these BQs, but then will net down the straight grade.
Whatever the technical grade, it is a coin to be proud of, and a very tough variety. So congrats, Baley, on the pick up!
My original guess was a Strong VF netted down to a F-15.
Seeing the grade on the holder makes me think: A) F-15 netted down to F-12 (due to issues). VF-20 netted down two grades to F-12 (due to issues ). Of course, we really are not seeing real clear pics of the surfaces. I'm thinking "A"
Persuing choice countermarked coinage on 2 reales.
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
We can see that yes, the coin appears to be net graded for some pitting in the left obverse field, and a few stray marks here and there. I am glad to see an example of this kind of net grading, and for a relatively rare coin in mid to lower grade like this, do not really disagree with PCGS's assessment. I've been considering coins with AG and Good detail, some of which have worse eye appeal problems, so was glad to get a piece that looks higher grade until you take a glass to it, taking a few steps back from the monitor will approximate the in-hand appearance.
still trying to get better pictures, they're improving but still leave something to be desired, trying to work within the 50 kb limit to keep it simple, but will eventually have to use image hosting if I want to get clearer edit: ok, here are the date and denomination
Now, of course, my dilemma is do I crack it out? The guesses confirm my initial impression, which is, That's a lot of B-1 for a Fine12, and then upon close examination and better images, Oh, I see a couple of issues that together amount to a few grade points in this range, and could possibly, for a Very strict grader or buyer, cause a "no-grade genuine" or a "pass no matter the price" response from the buyer.
It's a concept I've brought up a number of times in the past regarding notable tough to acquire coins in this series, in my case it's been the 1806 B-7 and B-10 quarters, the 1824 B-1 quarter and this 1825 B-1, among others, when I set out on this quest about 15 years ago to complete Browning, I knew that my eventual 1796 and 1804 coins (both B-1 and B-2 required, so x2 on an already expensive coin) would be low grade, either graded AG-3 to Good-6 coins, or coins with a bit more detail and in genuine holders due to whatever not-tooo-un-eye-appealing problems that I'd have to settle for (as I could not and still can not afford to collect even the date set in high grade, much less go after all the varieties)
So anyway, on my budget, I decided to focus on the marriages in mostly good through VF details, stay away from bright coins for the most part, and try to go after "problems" that were more natural in occurrence, such as minor digs and scratches that appeared to be either natural from circulation contact or at worst, silver test marks in commerce by merchants before accepting in payment.
When I got these coins, they were most often raw but sometimes were in TPG holders, I have without exception broken them out and enjoyed their nakedness (yes I know how that sounds) but this one, I'm not exactly sure or at least ready to break it out, sometimes I've bought a coin full ready to break out, and then thought better and left it, this is one of them in a PCGS holder that I'll leave be for a while, mainly because it's already registry-ready, as well as being in a graded PCGS holder and looks strong for the grade, and it has occurred to me to get the rest of the set certified and attributed like this someday, and this would be the seed, the first one, if only I could get some kind of deal for the whole set already being attributed by me and they'd only have to verify, and it sure would be nice if they did that thing where more old coins with natural-type problems were net graded, and maybe even some of those coins currently not gradable for more intentional damage could get a little more forgiveness for their age and rarity and be either implicitly or explicitly net-graded like this, I think it's safe to say that if this coin had perfect surfaces and this level of detail, it would likely go F-15 or F-20
I think the 1825 looks much better in your pictures, and I hope you got a deal on it!
I'm in the same boat with my bust quarter collection, which I put together in a Dansco by date (I still need 1804, 1807 and the 1819s). I have one 1819--a PCGS VG-8--and I've been wondering whether to crack it for the album. I know that some of my quarters would not holder due to various issues that I was forced to accept because I was and am working on a limited budget. I like the circulated cameo look, and am much more willing to go for a coin with, say, a light scratch than a harsh cleaning. It's been my experience that finding "original" bust quarters--whatever your definition of that term--is the most challenging aspect of putting a date set together. And they just look cool in the VG-VF range.
In any case, I'm thinking of trying to do a VFish, PCGS-graded set with major varieties, but keep my lower-grade, problem- (let's call it "character") filled Dansco.
@Varlis said:
.. I know that some of my quarters would not holder due to various issues that I was forced to accept because I was and am working on a limited budget. I like the circulated cameo look, and am much more willing to go for a coin with, say, a light scratch than a harsh cleaning. It's been my experience that finding "original" bust quarters--whatever your definition of that term--is the most challenging aspect of putting a date set together. And they just look cool in the VG-VF range.
Well... this is an old thread that somehow I missed back then. It is a nice old coin... and my question is, did you keep it in the slab? Or is it now displayed in all it's nakedness?? Cheers, RickO
Still in slab, brought the old thread ttt as an example of a borderline Net grade vs Genuine details call our fair hosts made, apropos of a related convo in another current post. Naked and resubmitted, this coin could go either way.
Comments
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>The tracking says the coin is en route, and I'm thinking, hmm, what's going on in the field between the stars and Liberty's profile? Is that toning, some gunk, some glue? is it marks, grafitti? are they scratches, pits, tooling? Something is there, how bad is it? this is a rare coin with a lot more detail than the ones I've been considering to fill the hole in my set, and as most here know, I'm more forgiving than the average collector of problems on rare coins and have been known to buy Genuine Details coins.. I'm just a little bit surprised no one has guessed Genuine, maybe folks is just bein' nice? Anyway, the price was right no matter what's going on in the fields, and at the rim at about 7 o'clock on the reverse.. rim ding, bit of toning, some gunk? A quick distance shot of the slab and prizes..
To be honest and obvious, the pictures are so bad the coin could be any grade between F-VF or non-graded. These are only guesses based on poor pictures.
PS I just wanted my free 1825 quarter
EAC 6024
I sure wouldn't want you F15 guessers grading my coins.
Sure wouldn't want you F15 guessers grading my coins!
A nice coin and a very difficult variety to find. It took several years for me to find one when I was a collector. Congratulations on acquiring it!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Best, SH
I'll say VF25.
Here are the pictures above cropped a little closer, she's attributed Browning-1 on the label and was advertised as B-1 R-5 by the seller, so not a cherrypick
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Nice pickup!
Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com
CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
Nice pickup!
Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com
CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
I think it's Fine-12. Hope you enjoy it!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
It was later sold to a good friend who still owns it. Can't tell ya how many guys wanted it! We made it the Plate coin in our quarter book.
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
<< <i>Hey, cool! That "was"my 25 B-1 from my personal collection. A really enjoyable high grade example. Can you believe I paid B & M $2,645 back in 01! I remember, I was camping in Sequioa (California Redwoods) shortly after that auction with family. Some of the most beautiful redwoods....I actually carried that slab around everywhere we hiked! My wife thought I was crazy, LOL.
It was later sold to a good friend who still owns it. Can't tell ya how many guys wanted it! We made it the Plate coin in our quarter book. >>
what does your wife think now?
XF45..1
XF40..0
VF35..2
VF30..11
VF25..18
VF20..14
F15...9
F12...2
and the result is
Coin flip between Varlis and Athena for first prize and drawing one of the 57 entries for second prize will be forthcoming, along with better pictures and some discussion
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>I took a look at the PCGS photograde and some thing is wrong - Your fine 15 doesnt match up with photograde. Your coin looks more like a VF!!! I think PCGS missed it. >>
Yes, I am very curious to see some better pics of this coin. Obviously it looks much better than your run-of-the-mill F-12 BQ, hence all the higher guesses. I went low partly to be pugnacious and partly because I couldn't tell from the original photo how much wear was really there versus how much crust was causing shadows in the curls and feathers. I was guessing it had been netted down due to some kind of issue(s), whether minor scratches or dings or whatever. But it was impossible to tell from the original picture. In my experience, TPGs will let such issues slide (sometimes) on these BQs, but then will net down the straight grade.
Whatever the technical grade, it is a coin to be proud of, and a very tough variety. So congrats, Baley, on the pick up!
Seeing the grade on the holder makes me think:
A) F-15 netted down to F-12 (due to issues).
Of course, we really are not seeing real clear pics of the surfaces. I'm thinking "A"
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
We can see that yes, the coin appears to be net graded for some pitting in the left obverse field, and a few stray marks here and there. I am glad to see an example of this kind of net grading, and for a relatively rare coin in mid to lower grade like this, do not really disagree with PCGS's assessment. I've been considering coins with AG and Good detail, some of which have worse eye appeal problems, so was glad to get a piece that looks higher grade until you take a glass to it, taking a few steps back from the monitor will approximate the in-hand appearance.
still trying to get better pictures, they're improving but still leave something to be desired, trying to work within the 50 kb limit to keep it simple, but will eventually have to use image hosting if I want to get clearer
edit: ok, here are the date and denomination
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Now, of course, my dilemma is do I crack it out? The guesses confirm my initial impression, which is, That's a lot of B-1 for a Fine12, and then upon close examination and better images, Oh, I see a couple of issues that together amount to a few grade points in this range, and could possibly, for a Very strict grader or buyer, cause a "no-grade genuine" or a "pass no matter the price" response from the buyer.
It's a concept I've brought up a number of times in the past regarding notable tough to acquire coins in this series, in my case it's been the 1806 B-7 and B-10 quarters, the 1824 B-1 quarter and this 1825 B-1, among others, when I set out on this quest about 15 years ago to complete Browning, I knew that my eventual 1796 and 1804 coins (both B-1 and B-2 required, so x2 on an already expensive coin) would be low grade, either graded AG-3 to Good-6 coins, or coins with a bit more detail and in genuine holders due to whatever not-tooo-un-eye-appealing problems that I'd have to settle for (as I could not and still can not afford to collect even the date set in high grade, much less go after all the varieties)
So anyway, on my budget, I decided to focus on the marriages in mostly good through VF details, stay away from bright coins for the most part, and try to go after "problems" that were more natural in occurrence, such as minor digs and scratches that appeared to be either natural from circulation contact or at worst, silver test marks in commerce by merchants before accepting in payment.
When I got these coins, they were most often raw but sometimes were in TPG holders, I have without exception broken them out and enjoyed their nakedness (yes I know how that sounds) but this one, I'm not exactly sure or at least ready to break it out, sometimes I've bought a coin full ready to break out, and then thought better and left it, this is one of them in a PCGS holder that I'll leave be for a while, mainly because it's already registry-ready, as well as being in a graded PCGS holder and looks strong for the grade, and it has occurred to me to get the rest of the set certified and attributed like this someday, and this would be the seed, the first one, if only I could get some kind of deal for the whole set already being attributed by me and they'd only have to verify, and it sure would be nice if they did that thing where more old coins with natural-type problems were net graded, and maybe even some of those coins currently not gradable for more intentional damage could get a little more forgiveness for their age and rarity and be either implicitly or explicitly net-graded like this, I think it's safe to say that if this coin had perfect surfaces and this level of detail, it would likely go F-15 or F-20
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I think the 1825 looks much better in your pictures, and I hope you got a deal on it!
I'm in the same boat with my bust quarter collection, which I put together in a Dansco by date (I still need 1804, 1807 and the 1819s). I have one 1819--a PCGS VG-8--and I've been wondering whether to crack it for the album. I know that some of my quarters would not holder due to various issues that I was forced to accept because I was and am working on a limited budget. I like the circulated cameo look, and am much more willing to go for a coin with, say, a light scratch than a harsh cleaning. It's been my experience that finding "original" bust quarters--whatever your definition of that term--is the most challenging aspect of putting a date set together. And they just look cool in the VG-VF range.
In any case, I'm thinking of trying to do a VFish, PCGS-graded set with major varieties, but keep my lower-grade, problem- (let's call it "character") filled Dansco.
But free silver is always nice. Thanks!
Well said!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
15
Tom
Well... this is an old thread that somehow I missed back then. It is a nice old coin... and my question is, did you keep it in the slab? Or is it now displayed in all it's nakedness?? Cheers, RickO
It's not naked til it's dipped.
Still in slab, brought the old thread ttt as an example of a borderline Net grade vs Genuine details call our fair hosts made, apropos of a related convo in another current post. Naked and resubmitted, this coin could go either way.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I missed the original thread... I'd have guessed 20. Nice details on a truly rare coin!
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