POSITIVE UPDATE --- Wow! Stacks/Bowers, how does this sound?
barberkeys
Posts: 4,156 ✭✭✭✭✭
Stacks Bowers auction ended on Tuesday, 2/10/15.
I was informed I had won the lot I bid on, and invoiced accordingly.
About 12 hours after the auction was closed, I was still the winner, and paid the invoice via paypal.
Today, approx 44 hours after the auction had closed, I was called by a Stacks representative and told I wasn't the winner, that yesterday, in the range of 18-24 hours after the auction had closed, that they had to go in and manually place some bids that didn't get in because their system was overloaded in the last few minutes of the auction. Hmmmmm.
I told the Stacks rep that the other bidder shouldn't have waited to the last minute, that it was their tough luck. Stacks doesn't see it that way, and is giving me a refund of my paypal payment. I asked the Stacks rep how that looked from my perspective, and he agreed it didn't look good. He asked what they could do to make it right with me. I said deliver the coin I won and keep my payment. He says that isn't going to happen.
So how high is Stacks on the credibility meter? Right up their with any national politician IMO.
I suggest everyone be guided accordingly.
UPDATE - 2/13/15:
Apparantly the SB rep I spoke with yesterday passed along my comments to Brian Kendrella, as he called me back later yesterday and said he would try and make it right by me. He stated he would call me back today. He did call back within the past half hour and stated that he had bought back the lot I'd thought I'd won, and would sell it to me at the amount of my auction invoice. He also stated that he would pay the consignor at the higher bid amount so that the only loss is taken by SB. I applaud Brian for taking the positive steps and hope that Stacks rights their ship.
I was informed I had won the lot I bid on, and invoiced accordingly.
About 12 hours after the auction was closed, I was still the winner, and paid the invoice via paypal.
Today, approx 44 hours after the auction had closed, I was called by a Stacks representative and told I wasn't the winner, that yesterday, in the range of 18-24 hours after the auction had closed, that they had to go in and manually place some bids that didn't get in because their system was overloaded in the last few minutes of the auction. Hmmmmm.
I told the Stacks rep that the other bidder shouldn't have waited to the last minute, that it was their tough luck. Stacks doesn't see it that way, and is giving me a refund of my paypal payment. I asked the Stacks rep how that looked from my perspective, and he agreed it didn't look good. He asked what they could do to make it right with me. I said deliver the coin I won and keep my payment. He says that isn't going to happen.
So how high is Stacks on the credibility meter? Right up their with any national politician IMO.
I suggest everyone be guided accordingly.
UPDATE - 2/13/15:
Apparantly the SB rep I spoke with yesterday passed along my comments to Brian Kendrella, as he called me back later yesterday and said he would try and make it right by me. He stated he would call me back today. He did call back within the past half hour and stated that he had bought back the lot I'd thought I'd won, and would sell it to me at the amount of my auction invoice. He also stated that he would pay the consignor at the higher bid amount so that the only loss is taken by SB. I applaud Brian for taking the positive steps and hope that Stacks rights their ship.
Vern
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
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Comments
I would be pretty put out by the matter and just ask them to close my account. I can't believe that Stacks Bowers keeps getting worse.
Latin American Collection
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I am kind of stunned that heads haven't rolled over this yet. I mean, c'mon, how bad can you screw up and still just accept the status quo? I know if I was in charge of SB, I'd be firing some people for incompetence.
Not to mention public relations... this continually looks horrible for them and they have done nothing to apologize or attempt to rectify the situation. Are they just going to wait until it's too late? I mean, leadership of a company should be proactive, not reactive... and SB isn't even being reactive. They're just... inactive.
Do they even look for feedback people are posting about them?
I mean, I'm not even mad about my 9 bids that apparently disappeared, I'm just confused as to their seeming indifference. >>
SB is sure getting a lot of bad publicity here. I wish one of the company principals would join us here and comment on this situation.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Sounds very suspicious. I wonder if an "insider" or "favored client" reviewed the winning bids and made arrangements to buy certain coins at a small premium over the winning bid price. >>
I highly doubt this. Those who lost out should keep track of the cert numbers and see where they show up again.
<< <i>Sounds very suspicious. I wonder if an "insider" or "favored client" reviewed the winning bids and made arrangements to buy certain coins at a small premium over the winning bid price. >>
You're kidding right? Outrageous statement.
Ive been one of their biggest critics but come on.............
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sounds very suspicious. I wonder if an "insider" or "favored client" reviewed the winning bids and made arrangements to buy certain coins at a small premium over the winning bid price. >>
You're kidding right? Outrageous statement.
Ive been one of their biggest critics but come on.............
MJ >>
Agree, statements like that border on actionable. I have never questioned or doubted the motives of the people. Their operations, however, leave a lot to be desired, IMO.
Here is the reply I got as to why the coin I won was taken away from me. This message came from Brian Kendrella, who is a really nice guy by the way.
<< <i>It looks like a one of the bid sheets our customer service team was still entering at the close of the auction had a max bid above your $300 bid. The results you saw were preliminary and unaudited, hence the change. I apologize for any confusion. >>
Now when an auction ends, and I am the high bidder, I should win. All bids should be entered before the clock runs out otherwise, how do I know I was outbid? Add to this that I was still winning the next morning, with my bid history clearing stating I won. Then a bid sheet gets entered and I am now a loser? I call BS on this and I am also in the camp of having enough of this whole thing. I can't help but believe the coin was taken back because I got a great price on it. If you can't trust that you will win when you are high bidder at the end of an auction, why bid? Could you imagine eBay or Heritage doing that?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sounds very suspicious. I wonder if an "insider" or "favored client" reviewed the winning bids and made arrangements to buy certain coins at a small premium over the winning bid price. >>
You're kidding right? Outrageous statement.
Ive been one of their biggest critics but come on.............
MJ >>
Agree, statements like that border on actionable. I have never questioned or doubted the motives of the people. Their operations, however, leave a lot to be desired, IMO. >>
I don't even think it's borderline...............on another note, welcome back Roberto!
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Now, fast forward to Stacks being overloaded and unable to process all timely bids, yet doing so after the fact.
Can you imagine your indignation if that was you and Stacks told you they were not going to honor your bid and award the coin
to the second lowest bidder?
peacockcoins
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sounds very suspicious. I wonder if an "insider" or "favored client" reviewed the winning bids and made arrangements to buy certain coins at a small premium over the winning bid price. >>
You're kidding right? Outrageous statement.
Ive been one of their biggest critics but come on.............
MJ >>
Agree, statements like that border on actionable. I have never questioned or doubted the motives of the people. Their operations, however, leave a lot to be desired, IMO. >>
I don't even think it's borderline...............on another note, welcome back Roberto!
MJ >>
I don't know anyone there personally, but I do believe in "innocent until proven guilty". On the other hand, by not
having a transparent bidding platform, ethical questions are bound to arise. Here's a possible scenario: A couple
of bid sheets are discovered after the auction ostensibly "closes" and they have a higher, but identical, bid than
whatever the "final" price was. It's unclear which bid sheet was received first. Now, who gets the coin? I'm
guessing it'll go to whomever has done the most previous business with the firm.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>they simply opt to screw over the bidders rather than the consignors >>
If so, that's a recent change. The last time I consigned, the opposite happened. I heard later from someone who wanted one of my pieces badly. After he was unable to place a bid on the web site, he got on the phone with them, reached a live person, and he STILL wasn't able to get his bid into the system even though all of that happened before the lot closed.
OK, we don't know what really would have happened if they accepted his bid, but he was pissed that he didn't get a chance at something he wanted, and I missed out on at least one increment higher in sale price.
I understand that he chewed them out and got an apology as a bidder. As a consignor, I didn't even get that much.
I know that if this happened on one of the lots I wanted and my intial bid was not the high bid...I may have have kept bidding.
This not only screws the bidder, it screws the consignor, and ultimately the company itself.
The internet only portion of their sales is a joke. The last time I tried to bid in such as sale of theirs I was unable to even bid due to the site crashing. This time I bid with 15 minutes left and watched the sale to the end, adjusting and re-bidding when I was out bid. I watched till the end and checked for the next 24 hours to see that I was still shown as the winner & high bidder on the lots that showed that at the end of the sale. Now I lost at least one item, but for some reason a couple of the ones I won went down in price! (certainly not compaining about that!)
I'm sorry, it should not take 24 hours or more to enter a few bids...
As a consignor I feel like I was screwed...as a bidder I feel like I was not given a fair shake...as a future consignor I am hesitate to do it again...as a future bidder, I will still bid on what I want to buy, but will try to do so in person if possible, pay right then, and get the coins I won, before something can change and screw that up.
Over a year and a half since this new web site went live and even though there have been changes and tweaks, it is still the train wreck it was when it rolled out...
QN
Edited for spelling...
Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!
This is one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" moments I suspect.
If I am not mistaken, the other day, bidders who claimed they entered valid bids demanded the coins they thought they won. Now, bidders who thought they won originally, demanded the coins they won not caring what happened to those other bidders. On top of that, SB is trying to right by its consignors by making sure the highest (proper) bids win the lots.
Barberkeys ... SB asked you how they can make it right by you other than giving you the coin. If I were you, I would come up with a proper and fair resolution that takes into account what you lost and the time and effort you put into all of this. It sounds like they wanted to compensate you?
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
There has to be more to this story. I have won many coins in many internet auctions from them, always getting the coin for what I won it at, when the auction closed!
So, back to my point - OP - you said that SB essentially asked to make it right with you. Why not come up a fair request for compensation and put SB to the test to make it right? If you have your health today, that is all that matters. Take some reasonable compensation if it is offered to you with respect to the coin (as should anyone else in the same situation).
Now, let me also make it clear, I am VERY disturbed to read about what happened to the OP here! Terms and conditions aside, this should NOT be happening and Brian should take all necessary action to ensure it does not happen again!
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Anything is possible in todays world, I mean just look at the years of incompetent web enabled bidding and complaints. You wouldn't think any company, no matter how out of touch the management, would allow it to get worse year after year. Its just as easy for people to believe they are doing something underhanded as to believe in their incompetence.
I don't know the management personally, but I wouldn't even let them auction a goat for me.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
<< <i>Today, approx 44 hours after the auction had closed, I was called by a Stacks representative and told I wasn't the winner, that yesterday, in the range of 18-24 hours after the auction had closed, that they had to go in and manually place some bids that didn't get in because their system was overloaded in the last few minutes of the auction. Hmmmmm. >>
Now this is interesting. I had a similar thing happen to me in reverse at the old ANR (American Numismatic Rarities). A coin I had won was taken away from me due to a computer snafu on their part although they admitted I was the high bidder at the close of the auction. I spoke to a company representative who apologized for the error but likewise told me I was S.O.L. They offered to find another coin of the same series/date/mm/grade, but of course I wanted the coin in the auction... the coin I had rightfully won. Prior to this event, I was a big fan of ANR. It was the last time I ever bid in an ANR auction.
That they do not come on this very message board and address the myriad complaints of board members here. For years, I was told that was because they were a public company. But, now they are not. With all due respect, Brian K. should assign Robin the task of being the "point woman" on these message boards. Robin is articulate, intelligent and well versed in handling "PR" matters. Brian - please set her loose here for goodness sake - how much worse could it get for you from anything Robin could possibly say to address these issues and interact with board members? Heck, you rarely, if ever, saw Ian here as President of Teletrade if memory serves me right. But, now that HE is in charge of a non-public company, he is here addressing matters (and posting) here nearly every day (and to the pleasure of board members). THIS ONE IS SO OBVIOUS BRIAN!!
Wondercoin
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
However, I believe that SB is obliged to audit the results. I'm not a lawyer (so don't lynch!), but I believe I read somewhere that licensed auctioned houses are legally obliged to audit their results. And even if they aren't legally obligated to do so, at least we should admit that that do that as a matter of good practice.
That they goofed badly prior to the auditing part doesn't mean that we shouldn't want them to audit and try to get t things right in the end. Right?
(Don't think of yourself as having an interest in the just passed auction; rather, think of yourself as someone who is considering doing business with them in the future as either bidder or consignor and wanting to observe how they handle adversity.)
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
That must have been one Hell of a bid sheet with just about everyone here getting the shaft somehow.
<< <i>That must have been one Hell of a bid sheet with just about everyone here getting the shaft somehow. >>
usually, I'm on the other side of the fence tossing rocks toward SB. For this latest auction though, everything went really well for me. I had to talk to them before the auction, during, and afterward. Good result each time.
With all due respect to you (and your legal background) and the fine people at S-B, when you have to invoke the T&C, we all know that there has been a major screw up.
<< <i>
<< <i>That must have been one Hell of a bid sheet with just about everyone here getting the shaft somehow. >>
usually, I'm on the other side of the fence tossing rocks toward SB. For this latest auction though, everything went really well for me. I had to talk to them before the auction, during, and afterward. Good result each time. >>
Perhaps the forum should be lynching you, then.
I don't care what the small print says. If this were a matter before a judge there's no way OP would lose.
Lance.
RYK: That is the line I responded to. You know as well as I know, that the "terms" of the auction control who won a coin "fair and square" (barring some "unconscionable" act or other bad faith perhaps). I am not embarrassed to admit I went to Law School and know how to read a document. In fact, I personally think everyone should consider going to Law School (or Business School) to improve ones skills. My son is graduating a Chemistry Major in 4 months and I have even suggested that he consider Law School to better improve his skills. And, of course, he simply laughs at the idea and says it is never going to happen. But, anyway ...
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
edited to add ... and then there is, of course, the "spirit" of how to do business. And, I point out that (as stated) SB offered the OP compensation here, which seemed reasonable to me despite how one might interpret the strict language of the Terms.
I will agree with that and also say that Brian is a stand up guy.
I feel like I did not miss any excitement so far.................
RYK ... Yes he is. And, it is great to hear you won some coins in the most recent sale and everything went well for you from start to finish.
Wondercoin
Who would defend that ebay person then? Regardless of it being against eBay's rules and such...just on the basis of a similar situation to this.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
What about the 3 or 4 coins I was outbid on with a couple minutes left and sat there watching the spinning circle until the auction closed and then the fatal error message!
I was talking with a very reliable and highly respected dealer today. He told me awhile back he was interested in a token at SB ,forgot and went back to look. He told me he could have bid on the token 12 hours after the auction ended!
While the bargains are coming out of this fiasco...so are the disappointments. I personally think SB needs to step up to the plate! A costly solution would be to try to buy out the underbidder(in SM's opinion) or the bidder who they decided won. Then compensate the person who did not get the coin!
That includes those with the debate over what is actionable or not,
1. The auction closed and high bidder paid and money was accepted. Done deal.
2. Stacks goofed or has insufficient or incompetant help.
3. Stacks ships coin to high bidder at close of auction and compensates consignor for late bid not entered. Stacks apologizes to person who did not get bid entered.
Stacks is showing incompetance on more than one level.
I have no dog in this fight.
Wondercoin