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1983 Wrestling All Stars #8 Gino Hernandez Signed.....
Dpeck100
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So this is an interesting card. For those that are not familiar with Gino Hernandez he was a big star primarily in the Texas area working for various promotions. He also made appearances for Georgia Championship Wrestling showing photos of him and Farrah Fawcett who he apparently dated in the early 1980's.
Gino and Farrah
Gino was a legit bad guy and refused to sign for most of the fans. In doing some research to see if I could find more examples to compare this auto to, I found a great story from a young man who Gino tore up the paper he wanted signed and called him a punk and laughed in his face. So far I have only been able to locate a few examples and they are signed to Gail. I am friends with a guy from New York that said his aunt got them signed by Gino and he claimed that he only signed for women.
When this card popped up on EBAY my heart nearly skipped a beat. I emailed the seller and asked if they would end the item for $100. They responded back since there were no bids they would. In the mean time I showed it to my friend and he said it was fake. I certainly will contest the auto looks a little odd. Since I had already agreed I went ahead and purchased the card.
This is a real mystery because there are a few things that work in its favor and a few that don't. The seller has sold many wrestling autos including a tough 1983 Wrestling All Stars John Studd with glowing feedback. They are from Houston, Texas and indicated the card came from the estate of someone who worked for Paul Boesch who promoted the wrestling shows that Gino appeared in there. The card is beat up and if someone was going to fake a rare auto I would think they might consider buying a nicer copy to potentially maximize the sale price. If the card was brought to the show it would make since that it showed wear like it does.
Gino was very much in love with his appearance so it also makes since he wouldn't sign across his face. The penmanship is the part that is odd. In a since it looks like someone tried to copy the other auto that can be found via a Google search.
Here is where I think this is so challenging. This was during an era in wrestling and especially in Texas where many of the performers were highly intoxicated. Gino was a massive cocaine user and was found with three times the amount of cocaine in his system that would result in death and had cocaine in his stomach. I find it potentially possible that he was intoxicated when he signed this and might have pushed down harder with the pen and didn't have a steady hand. I have received back many autos from the wrestling conventions where the wrestler was trashed and the auto doesn't look good but is.
I took a pen that would have had a sharp tip and signed a random card and if you push down hard you would have a more traced looking signature like this. I could see him having blurred vision or perhaps less control of his hand and tried focusing harder and this being the end result.
I thought I would share it with the board and see what others think.
Gino and Farrah
Gino was a legit bad guy and refused to sign for most of the fans. In doing some research to see if I could find more examples to compare this auto to, I found a great story from a young man who Gino tore up the paper he wanted signed and called him a punk and laughed in his face. So far I have only been able to locate a few examples and they are signed to Gail. I am friends with a guy from New York that said his aunt got them signed by Gino and he claimed that he only signed for women.
When this card popped up on EBAY my heart nearly skipped a beat. I emailed the seller and asked if they would end the item for $100. They responded back since there were no bids they would. In the mean time I showed it to my friend and he said it was fake. I certainly will contest the auto looks a little odd. Since I had already agreed I went ahead and purchased the card.
This is a real mystery because there are a few things that work in its favor and a few that don't. The seller has sold many wrestling autos including a tough 1983 Wrestling All Stars John Studd with glowing feedback. They are from Houston, Texas and indicated the card came from the estate of someone who worked for Paul Boesch who promoted the wrestling shows that Gino appeared in there. The card is beat up and if someone was going to fake a rare auto I would think they might consider buying a nicer copy to potentially maximize the sale price. If the card was brought to the show it would make since that it showed wear like it does.
Gino was very much in love with his appearance so it also makes since he wouldn't sign across his face. The penmanship is the part that is odd. In a since it looks like someone tried to copy the other auto that can be found via a Google search.
Here is where I think this is so challenging. This was during an era in wrestling and especially in Texas where many of the performers were highly intoxicated. Gino was a massive cocaine user and was found with three times the amount of cocaine in his system that would result in death and had cocaine in his stomach. I find it potentially possible that he was intoxicated when he signed this and might have pushed down harder with the pen and didn't have a steady hand. I have received back many autos from the wrestling conventions where the wrestler was trashed and the auto doesn't look good but is.
I took a pen that would have had a sharp tip and signed a random card and if you push down hard you would have a more traced looking signature like this. I could see him having blurred vision or perhaps less control of his hand and tried focusing harder and this being the end result.
I thought I would share it with the board and see what others think.
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Thanks
It was obtained by Danny McShain in person. Danny died here in Pearland Texas in 1992. He helped train my son from a wheel chair back in 1989 as he was unable to walk at that point. My son would be in the ring with Tom Prichard and Nick Kosac while Danny explained things to them to go through. My son was Rick Garren who wrestled in the USWA and Global in Dallas at the Sportatorium in Dallas. He wrestled 16 years until being injured in Japan. My son is selling a ticket Stub from the collection signed by Gino (Charles). My son also has a pair of Gino's boots he gave him back in like 1983, which were made here in Houston by Cliffard at Lyons Boot & Shoe Repair at the corner of Lyons Ave. and Cress. Until Bill Ash started he made all of the boots!! My son is still in touch with Mr. Boesch's widow and step son as well as Peter Birkholtz, Paul's Nephew. He also has some of the old Houston wrestling shows on DVD as well as really early Southwest Championship Wrestling from San Antonio with Gino and Tully, Tiger Conway Jr. and many more. We will also be selling the bulk of Paul's estate when Mrs. Boesch decides it's time. His office is untouched at their House in Sugarland, TX just as it was the day he died. Thanks Lucy
If she is liar she is a good one. Interesting story none the less.
Danny McShain Pro HOF
Rick Garren vs. Eddie Gilbert
You can hear Raven in his Scotty The Body gimmick. The description is funny. Eddie Gilbert vs some bum. Haha
When I get home tonight I am going to look through my stack and if my memory serves me I have a Tony Atlas that was signed last year at a show that has an indented signature like this from the pen and looks awful too.
Generally when I sign a document I try and put a good signature on it. Some people have signatures that you would never be able to guess what their real name is but mine is fairly legible and if someone said that is meant to say David Peck you would believe it. That said. I have signed some receipts at night clubs at 3AM where you would never ever believe it was my signature. No hand writing expert could ever make the connection. This is why I believe it is hard to rule out in person signatures from being authentic.
There are a few of the current wrestlers on the convention circuit that like to drink all day at the shows. If you saw their signature when the show started vs. the end you wouldn't even know it was the same person.
I think her story is pretty believable. The wrestling business in the early 80's was a very small business and especially in the territories. It makes total since that Gino would have signed for someone from the office and worked matches as a ref and was worthy of being in the Pro Wrestling HOF. It also makes since that the card was beat up as it was probably carried in his pocket.
The ticket didn't last long that she said in the response she had. Signautre looks identical.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i> anything is possible.. but i find it more difficult to believe someone would spend this much effort on a gino hernandez forgery. >>
A Gino Hernandez signed Wrestling All Star card has PLENTY of value to spend that much effort on. My mind is going these days from staying busy, but I THINK Gino was one of the ones that I sold for between $500 and $1000. That would certainly be worth a forgers effort.
Mike
This is the Tony Atlas I was referring to. After looking at the one that recently sold I am not certain how you would determine they are both real. That said the pen used on mine got stuck and didn't flow as well as it could have. I thought it was worse but it is closer to a sharpie pen then one with a sharp tip.
<< <i>I think someone attempting a forgery would try to do it on a beater rather than a nicer example card (in case they fail miserably). I also think this is real given the story and that Dpeck is absolutely right that those under the influence of cocaine tend to take their time and press down hard. Truman Capote is a great example. His signature is pretty consistent until you get to his cocaine days, then they're either a train wreck and/or it looks like he's stabbing the paper with the pen. >>
A raw Gino can be had for just a few bucks so it wouldn't be to costly to ruin a few. That said I get your point. The wrestling fans back in the day and even up until just a few years ago didn't care about the condition of these cards. I can picture the person carrying it in his top pocket of his refs shirt.
I would love to see some of the Truman examples.
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<< <i>The same person is selling a fake Big John Studd autographed card with some story that it came from an estate. >>
Now a Chris Adams, I am not really believing this seller at all.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
YOU:
I went ahead and left you feedback this morning. This is a fascinating card because the auto looks so bad. That said I believe your story. I am thinking Gino was on drugs when this was signed and dug into the card with the pen and kept going and that is why it looks so traced. I would imagine you have some great stories from back in the day. I did a search for your son and found a match with him and Eddie Gilbert on Youtube. There are so few examples online for collectors to compare it to but your connection sounds extremely legit and I trust your word. My friend who had the one that can be found in a Google search signed to Gail said it was fake when I showed the listing to him the night we corresponded but I bought it anyway as I assumed you were being honest. Thanks for emailing me the story this morning. It makes me feel better about the purchase. I realize the wrestling business in the 80's was a small tight group and you are lucky to have been involved in some capacity.
Sorry It is not fake, the ticket stub was obviously real, I have had people offer up to $800 and they said I priced it too low. The card was signed in person, I would love to know who at PSA graded the first card. There are very few of his signatures that made it out of Texas. I have never seen anything signed with his real name, we will be selling the balance of the Boesch Estate, there may be some cancelled checks, but the boys were mainly paid in cash. I have seen several fakes, none of which look anything like the ones we have. I had no idea what they were worth, from what I have learned you got a really good deal. I am happy it went to someone who appreciated it. We have sold many pieces out of the collection and have never had anything returned. Lucy
If this was the case why would you even think about ending an item early?? Wouldnt you let the auction go and see what it gets bid up to? If its so rare and have no idea of value arent you leaving hundreds or thousands of $$$ potentially on the table. If auction ended with no bids whats the harm in relisting at lower start price
I can see if someone was foolish a novice or had no idea about collectibles and just jumped at an offer for some cash but this is clearly not the case.
The seller also sold a vintage baseball card lot. There are 7 scans. The main (1st) scan that you would see come up in searches had by far the best cards on it. The person knew which scan to list as the main one to draw someone in. Also listing comics with grades. And knows what PSA is. It seems this seller know plenty about collectibles
Not sure what to make of the story..anyway Dpeck I hope the auto is real since you really want a legit auto of Gino
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Always looking to buy or trade for Andre the Giant autographs
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I think she was indicating that after it sold she had higher offers come in. When I first scoped out her feedback she sold a PSA/DNA Mickey Mantle item at some point in the past.
My heart is more in graded cards then auto's so I won't be devastated by any means if it is fake. I am just not certain if I will ever know.
Matt Borne
This auto doesn't look like the one that a board member sold recently but that was a recent signature. It is totally reasonable for a wrestler to alter their signature over time. I saw a copy of the 1954 Topps Hank Aaron recently where he completely changed his name in the signature.
Matt Borne definitely wrestled in 1983 for Paul Boesch. This item in my view tilts the scales in her favor. The odds of faking this card are not that high. If you are going to fake an auto go for bigger names. These cards came out when these performers were wrestling in this area. It would be odd if she started listing Buck Zum Hoffe autos or someone who worked exclusively in another region.
Hello I found this thread when I googled for an autograph specimen of Gina Hernandez I have one just like this on an index card that came back fake from an authenticator SGC it was very reputable opinion as although JSA has this signature specimen authenticated in my opinion it is also a fake
I was shown two original specimens of the signature that is authentic and it is more or less a big G and a big H with scribble
So after I was left disappointed I call people who worked with world-class and I also sent the specimens other people to look at it and what my opinion is is that whoever Gail is would be the source of this specific autograph specimen as most cards or pictures say to Gail
In my opinion Gayle is perhaps a woman who had an imaginary relationship with Charles Wolfe and these autographs are more or less her creation
Then I had a handwriting expert look at the signature and he believes that the specimen is one of the female not a mail to the fact of the handwriting
I would love to say the signature example I have is real but with sadness I cannot based on all the people I have spoken to it is nothing more than a fake however I do hold out hope but there has been nothing to tell me otherwise I hope this helps because I've seen some of the specimens go for $600 and I've been taught an authentic one with self actually around $3000 from autograph experts and this would be due the fact that as a heel he kept character and he never signed autographs for anyone
In other words in my opinion all these "to Gail" gino Hernandez autographs are fake even the ones which Passed jsa
Have a good holiday
In the past year there was an item on EBAY that was a poster and the seller had it listed at a high price to make sure people could see it and to call out all of the signatures with Gino's name that are somewhat legible. It had as you state a G and an H. I am not naive enough to think that just because an auto has been approved or denied that it is good or bad. That said if we are using that poster as the reason for suggesting all of these auto's are fake that is ridiculous. As I stated above I can use my own signature as a perfect example as to why making a 100% determination that a signature is real is very tough. I try and sign my name nicely when I write out a signature and sometimes it comes out great and others not so much. That said there are plenty of times it is not even legible and the writing is under no circumstances provable that it's mine. Sometimes it is just a scribble. If someone could get a hold of a check like we have seen from other tough signers like Brody I think that would naturally be the best way to get some idea of what his handwriting looked like. I think it is great that you are trying to solve this mystery but your evidence doesn't change anything at this point. I am going to attach a photo I just took with different variations of my signature. I personally do not think an autograph authenticator would pass them all as my signature yet they are. The large poster that is signed could have been rushed, could have been held at an angle, he could have been annoyed he had to sign, he could have been highly intoxicated, he could have worked on his signature from one point in his career to another, and any other number of reasons the signatures look so far apart. Good luck in your research and certainly update us if you have any other information to add.
Haven't watched Heroes Of World Class in a while. This guy was awesome! He definitely could of had a run in the bigger promotions. I can't imagine how much fun this dude had for a few years.
I saw two examples which were on trading cards and not the poster in question, but if the poster was what I desciribed it was real. ThI se "to Gail" like the ones slabbed are all fake in my opinion.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gino-Hernandez-wrestling-wccw-nwa-wwe-wwf-signed-autograph-rare-cut-PSA-DNA-JSA/172524398322?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20140211132617&meid=9bfd059d48c942e58fae7bdd85c2c737&pid=100085&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=172524398322&clkid=2491317091957270423&_qi=RTM2247625
This might be the first Gino auto I have seen in a PSA holder.
Here is a real Gino Hernandez autograph. The psa dna which you show slabbed is fake.. all the "to Gail" ones are fake
https://www.ebay.com/itm/172710709640
Always looking to buy or trade for Andre the Giant autographs
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1981
08/27/81 Yamagata, Japan Akio Sato & Takashi Ishikawa beat Gino Hernandez & Anibal(12:53)
08/28/81 Niigata, Japan Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta beat Gino Hernandez & Gypsy Joe(13:37)
08/29/81 Nagano, Japan Gino Hernandez beat Masao Ito(11:45)
08/30/81 Nagano, Japan Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta beat Gino Hernandez & Gypsy Joe(18:44) in a 2 of 3 falls match
Always looking to buy or trade for Andre the Giant autographs
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Sorry it's fake
There is someone who is putting out these fakes I think it's a female as the autograph is even women's handwriting
This was also the same "time" someone had a signed ticket stub from a show in Texas
See if JSA will authenticate it you will not be happy with the answer SGC will also fail them
The question is are the "Gail" autos real or not. The wrestling autograph guys know the source of these autos. Now the question is do you trust the source?
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I have had great success with auto's passing from the source. He has photos from that era with so many wrestlers.
I've also got some really nice stuff from him. That's why it's tough to think otherwise.
Always looking to buy or trade for Andre the Giant autographs
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All are real but one. Seems odd.
I'm the guy who owns the 1985 WCCW poster with Gino's legit autograph that listed it on Ebay to make a point. Shockingly, his signature on my poster matches the examples that both Knapp and GSA323 posted. I know mine is real because of how it was obtained and the fact that i dated one of Gino's exes in the late 90s and personally matched it to the letters she kept from him.
I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings unnecessarily, but the Gail autos look as legit as $3 bills. The story i heard is that she got them along with a handwritten letter inviting her to the matches snd he signed the letter "Sincerely, Charles Wolfe" (which i found hilarious, actually) The reality is that Gino stayed in heel character 24/7 and only signed if it was required by WCCW or the spot show promoters, which is why he signed my poster as it was part of a Kiwanis auction for a sold show and how he got paid. Also, he NEVER would admit to being Charles Wolfe from Spring Branch High School much less to a mark or potential squeeze. His friends called him "Gene" and almost none knew his real name. And the idea he invited her formally to a show is unrealistic too as the boys knew to keep their women away from other charming predatory wrestlers. Me thinks Gail is creating a charming fantasy life in retrospect here and her sigs look like she looped them right on those cards.
Garrard,
Why shockingly?
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During the private signing with Flair at Wrestlecon I don't recall how it came up but he divulged a major wrestling secret and Gino is the illegitimate son of promoter Paul Boesch.
Let's forget about the "Gail" autos for now. Garrard, post a pic of your signed poster.
This one came directly from Japan.
This one appears to be real, but just sloppy.
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The paper one above passed SGC now as of today. So it's been passed by jsa and sgc
The To Gail ones are beyond fake and it's sad psa DNA will psa them.
I've seen two other real copies which were on trading cards and they are the same ones as the paper one.. I'm leeriy of the "Japan" one in so much as the handwriting seems to be by a female like the Gail ones
I believe knapp is the seller of the psa dna to Gail fake which is wrong but hey it is what it is
KNAPP is not the seller of the PSA DNA / JSA Gail fake auto. I had a nice talk a few weeks ago with James Spence about these autos.
Always looking to buy or trade for Andre the Giant autographs
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Sorry knapp I apologize the person with the fake sent me that japan one and said it was his
I can copy them my username is an aol account
Gsa - You keep leaving out the fact that JSA also authenticated the Gail autos. If you have pics of the Gino signed cards, please post them. The Japan is real. I spoke to many long time collectors in the hobby and everyone agrees that the Japan one is the real deal.
Always looking to buy or trade for Andre the Giant autographs
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Gsa323 - Which 3rd party authenticator do you think is the best to authenticate a Gino autograph?
Always looking to buy or trade for Andre the Giant autographs
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https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/153150379712
$4500 obo in another in my opinion fake auto
The seller is Erik the guy that got me over 200 cards signed. A great guy to deal with. I saw the card had some offers and he said he turned down $1,800.