Going through a few hundred errors/varieties - FUN - New pics 2/17 - ID Help Plz

StrikeOutXXX · February 3, 2015 6:15AM

So my coin club knows I like varieties and oddities - one of my friends brought me these and said here, go through them and Make him a fair offer when I figure out what's in there. Probably 20 or so years of his own "oddities" and such he has collected.

I've had about 15 minutes with the boxes, and likely won't have a good chunk of time for a week or so, as these are going to take quite some time to look up many of them.

The first pass through them I saw a few things of note just looking at the 2x2's:

* 1857 Snow S8 clash
* 1853 Large cents with RP dates
* 1854-O Recut Date 1/2
* 1941 Clipped Lincoln
* 1943 DDO Washington
* Many rotated reverses
* Many RPMs, Inverted MMs, etc
* Many what looks like machine doubling coins

I'd say it's 75% copper - mostly Lincolns/IHs and 25% silver - mostly Franklins/Mercs/Morgans

I'm tempted to look for anything substantial in here, give good offers on those, and I have no idea how to factor a hundred or so RPM Lincolns and Washingtons - that's a lot of looking up prices to see if they're slight/small/big/no premium.

But... this should be a few weekends of FUN sorting through it.

Anyone else have a plan how to tackle something like this?

ctf_error_coins · February 3, 2015 6:33AM

Looks fun. Go thru them one at a time. Put some on ebay to see what type of prices are realized. Maybe small lots on the less expensive stuff.

DIMEMAN · February 3, 2015 8:09AM

Are any of the Mercs BU or AU?

koynekwest · February 3, 2015 8:12AM

There is a number of 1943 Wash 25c doubled dies. Check yours carefully for Die #9. That's a good one that has a very strong spread.

StrikeOutXXX · February 3, 2015 11:23AM

<< Are any of the Mercs BU or AU? >>

Not on the mercs. There are a few unc/au mixed in, but the vast majority are circulated.

Looks like I'll be putting the variety section of my library into action and spending a lot of time looking up stuff at coneca.

Sorted them by type is as far as I got, but have to look up/identify:

8 Morgans
1 Seated Half
1 Walking Liberty Half
24 Franklins
1 Kennedy
42 Washingtons
47 Mercs
1 Liberty Nickel
7 Buffalo Nickels
18 Jeffersons
1 3-cent nickel
1 2-cent piece
2 Large Cents
1 Flying Eagle
19 Indian Heads
197 Lincolns

Always fun going through what someone else thought was interesting enough to set aside. Not expecting any super rare stuff, but will come out the other side of this knowing a lot more than I do now I'm sure.

EagleEye · February 3, 2015 12:57PM

The 1857 S8 is a very tough coin in AU58. Should be a $1,000+ coin.

ricko · February 3, 2015 10:22PM

Looks like some interesting times ahead... a lot of fun going through a bunch of coins like this. Cheers, RickO

StrikeOutXXX · February 4, 2015 10:13AM

<< The 1857 S8 is a very tough coin in AU58. Should be a $1,000+ coin. >>

Um, yea, AU58 can somewhat be seen in the group shot in the OP, but... not quite. Care to re-evaluate for me?

Busiest 2x2 I think I've ever seen:

StrikeOutXXX · February 4, 2015 10:24AM

Another one - Sadly it's a bit beat up - still need to narrow down the Breen # between 2 of them.

keyman64 · February 4, 2015 10:27AM

Sounds like fun! What interesting Mercs did you find?

StrikeOutXXX · February 4, 2015 10:36AM

Then there is the 1946D Half just marked "D/D" on the 2x2. It doesn't match the two RPMs on CONECAs site, but there is some minor MD going on, just seems quite extreme on the D, so need to do more checking.

StrikeOutXXX · February 5, 2015 6:17AM

<< Sounds like fun! What interesting Mercs did you find? >>

No pics yet, but I hit them all with a loupe at least. I will double-check later, but a lot of Merc fans have asked for updates.

Of the 47 Mercs - 35 of them are obvious Machine Doubling

I have a 1919 that has doubling in "IGWT" but nowhere else, and it's pretty dramatic, so want to check that one hard later. I want to say MD, but the right part of the motto is split between the two parts, tough call since I've never studied these.

A 1925-D with a rotated reverse about 40 or so degrees.
A 1941 S/S I think - need to take pics and blow them up
A 1941-S Large S Variety
A 1944-S Inverted Mint Mark
5 1945-S Micro-S Varieties

A 1934 with a neat die crack through the "9" in the date from rim to bottom of neck
A 1928-D with 3 die cracks below the neck going through the date that is pretty cool looking.

Unfortunately, most of the Mercs are VF or lower, so not a bunch of high-grade specimens.

EagleEye · February 5, 2015 6:51AM

Yes, Not AU58 as the verbose holder says. Only a XF cleaned, probably only a $400 coin.

USMarine6 · February 5, 2015 7:51AM

Those boxes would certainly keep me busy for a few months. Sounds like your having a blast. Keep updating with any more cool stuff

StrikeOutXXX · February 5, 2015 11:34AM

<< Those boxes would certainly keep me busy for a few months. Sounds like your having a blast. Keep updating with any more cool stuff >>

Having a blast for sure. Just wish my old camera didn't die at Christmas - still getting used to this new one.

Here are the pics for the night.

Here is the 1919 Merc I wasn't sure of. Mercs have some of the strangest Machine Doubling (Very dramatic at times) - I've just never seen it quite like this before - any thoughts?

The 25-D Rotated Reverse was only about 20-Degrees when I lined it up for photos, so didn't take pics.

I didn't take the Large-S or Micro-S mercs - they match the CPG perfectly

Here is the MM from the 44-S labeled "Inverted MM" on the 2x2

Here is the MM from the 1941-S/S

Here is the die crack on the 1934

Here are the die cracks on the 1928-D (Kind of like this, sort of like an animal swipe)

There were 2 large cents in the boxes, both 1853. Both seem to be the same variety. - Anyone identify these?

#2 is worn much more, but can see the same basic date elements and bump/dot below date - is the the "Normal" or a variety?

And lastly for tonight - a 2-cent piece labeled 178-Degree rotation. I left it in the flip to show it's basically medal alignment

Feel free to chime in on any of these as varieties, will save me a bunch of time 8-)

fcloud · February 5, 2015 11:42AM

I love that 28 merc.

As far as the 1919 I think it is most likely die bounce (machine doubling), but wow, I haven't see that type of spread. It might be worth a few buck to have coneca look at it to determine if it is a DDO or MD.

StrikeOutXXX · February 5, 2015 9:25PM

<< I love that 28 merc.

As far as the 1919 I think it is most likely die bounce (machine doubling), but wow, I haven't see that type of spread. It might be worth a few buck to have coneca look at it to determine if it is a DDO or MD. >>

Yea, I need to get the '28 back out and look at it closer - looking at the pictures, the 3 lines look more like gouges/damage to the die versus 3 cracks. Hard to tell for sure, but it looked like they extend into the rim which is odd.

I have a few more days of going through the non-lincolns, but I will probably have to take quite a few coins and post threads of their own to get some opinions, this thread is kind of a mix of all types of coins, and not targeted to Merc variety folks, or cent folks, etc.

Sonorandesertrat · February 5, 2015 10:40PM

Regarding your large cents: they are N19 (common, R-1). Clear markers are the repunched 853 and die chip below the 5.

Timbuk3 · February 6, 2015 11:45AM

Looks like fun !!! :-)

sparky64 · February 6, 2015 12:03PM

Wow. Fun factor = high.

Good thing the holders are only 2 x 2. Who knew how much info could be put on one like the 1857 FE.
To be fair, he does note an XF reverse and polished.

Nice close-up pics, btw.

StrikeOutXXX · February 7, 2015 7:52AM

Here are the actual mechanical errors - didn't get a lot done today.

1901 Liberty Nickel with an Obv Lamimation (Reverse is uneventful)

1957D Lincoln - Partial collar strike?

1957D Lincoln - Partial collar strike as well? Very similar to the coin above

1941 Lincoln Curved Clip - Textbook clip, upraised rim transition, awesome blakesley, etc.

My favorite of the lot - 2x2 said 1948D (Can't see it, but who knows). This is a trainwreck of a coin. Can you identify this type of errors(s) and... what is the detail on the rim, a double strike from somewhere?

Thanks for all the comments so far, still have plenty to go through.

jonathanb · February 7, 2015 8:02AM

The Lincolns with strange edges were lucky cents -- encased cents in an aluminum ring, with the ring now gone. That funny design in your last picture is the top of a four-leaf clover.

In the encasement they probably would have been worth something (especially the 1948). As they are now, they're spendable.

seanq · February 7, 2015 11:40AM

<< The Lincolns with strange edges were lucky cents -- encased cents in an aluminum ring, with the ring now gone. That funny design in your last picture is the top of a four-leaf clover.

In the encasement they probably would have been worth something (especially the 1948). As they are now, they're spendable. >>

This. I mistook a couple of similar coins for partial collar errors years ago until someone here set me straight. It's a fairly common thing to find those on coins dated in the 1940s and 1950s.

Sean Reynolds

StrikeOutXXX · February 8, 2015 12:50AM

Thanks jonathanb & seanq - I really need to brush up on encased coin manufacturing.

I have/had many (99% still in the encasement), but I never realized it created that channel/ground into the host coin creating that partial collar effect, and I guess since I haven't seen many out of the encasement, never realized how much damage the host coin took.

I also didn't realize the encased part was stamped while the host coin was inside (If that's how those clover parts were created).

Do you have a good link to a website with detailed info/pics on the process so I can better understand it to pick up on those in the future?

Thanks,
Jeff

jonathanb · February 8, 2015 2:55AM

<< Do you have a good link to a website with detailed info/pics on the process so I can better understand it to pick up on those in the future? >>

Encased Collectors International has a web site. I'm not a member, so I don't know exactly what info they have on line, but I'd start there.

winky · February 8, 2015 4:00AM

Love all DD and variety's, especially Roosie's.

StrikeOutXXX · February 8, 2015 8:59AM

<< There is a number of 1943 Wash 25c doubled dies. Check yours carefully for Die #9. That's a good one that has a very strong spread. >>

Started on the Washingtons - although the flip said 1943, it was actually a 1943-S and looks to be the standard FS-101:

Most of the rest of the Washingtons were well worn (with a few 60's BUs) D/D, S/S, etc. This is a 1945-S/S (The most dramatic of them all), before I spend an hour taking a ton of pictures of very slight D/D - do they actually carry any premium?

And... for those of you who commented on the 1919 Merc with doubling, I posted pics ATS, so far, they seem to think it is hub doubling:
http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8373367#Post8373367

CaptHenway · February 8, 2015 10:47PM

As for the 1919 dime, definitely a doubled die. The first impression was only partially formed and fades out equidistant from the rim, which is why only the top part of the N of IN shows, while more of the R and most of the U of TRUST show. The same phenomenon can be seen on the classic 1916/1916 nickel.

Great find!

TD

seanq · February 8, 2015 11:12PM

<< As for the 1919 dime, definitely a doubled die. The first impression was only partially formed and fades out equidistant from the rim, which is why only the top part of the N of IN shows, while more of the R and most of the U of TRUST show. The same phenomenon can be seen on the classic 1916/1916 nickel.

Great find!

TD >>

Honestly my first thought is that it is a genuine doubled die but a counterfeit coin. The only way I could see that being a real mint product, given the very strong but very localized doubling, would be if there was a design hub change that year. Is that a listed variety I am not aware of? If not, is there any way a doubled die that strong on such a widely collected series could go unnoticed for almost 100 years?

Sean Reynolds

StrikeOutXXX · February 8, 2015 11:53PM

<< 

<< As for the 1919 dime, definitely a doubled die. The first impression was only partially formed and fades out equidistant from the rim, which is why only the top part of the N of IN shows, while more of the R and most of the U of TRUST show. The same phenomenon can be seen on the classic 1916/1916 nickel.

Great find!

TD >>

Honestly my first thought is that it is a genuine doubled die but a counterfeit coin. The only way I could see that being a real mint product, given the very strong but very localized doubling, would be if there was a design hub change that year. Is that a listed variety I am not aware of? If not, is there any way a doubled die that strong on such a widely collected series could go unnoticed for almost 100 years?

Sean Reynolds >>

Not sure Sean - there were hub changes in 1916/1917/1918, but don't see anything for 1919 specifically.
http://blog.davidlawrence.com/index.php/mercury-dimes-ch-2-design-modifications/

I would really need a merc specialist to look at what's left of the 1919's details to see if they can determine if it's using an older hub here.

CaptHenway · February 9, 2015 12:05AM

<< 

<< As for the 1919 dime, definitely a doubled die. The first impression was only partially formed and fades out equidistant from the rim, which is why only the top part of the N of IN shows, while more of the R and most of the U of TRUST show. The same phenomenon can be seen on the classic 1916/1916 nickel.

Great find!

TD >>

Honestly my first thought is that it is a genuine doubled die but a counterfeit coin. The only way I could see that being a real mint product, given the very strong but very localized doubling, would be if there was a design hub change that year. Is that a listed variety I am not aware of? If not, is there any way a doubled die that strong on such a widely collected series could go unnoticed for almost 100 years?

Sean Reynolds >>

Sean, I'll bet you a grande latte and TWO chocolate covered donuts that that piece is genuine!

Could have been a very short production run. The doubling is so strong that the press operator should have spotted it the first time he stuck his hand in the catch bin to check the output.

Do you concur with my partial first hubbing explanation?

TD

CaptHenway · February 9, 2015 12:08AM

<< 

<< 

<< As for the 1919 dime, definitely a doubled die. The first impression was only partially formed and fades out equidistant from the rim, which is why only the top part of the N of IN shows, while more of the R and most of the U of TRUST show. The same phenomenon can be seen on the classic 1916/1916 nickel.

Great find!

TD >>

Honestly my first thought is that it is a genuine doubled die but a counterfeit coin. The only way I could see that being a real mint product, given the very strong but very localized doubling, would be if there was a design hub change that year. Is that a listed variety I am not aware of? If not, is there any way a doubled die that strong on such a widely collected series could go unnoticed for almost 100 years?

Sean Reynolds >>

Not sure Sean - there were hub changes in 1916/1917/1918, but don't see anything for 1919 specifically.
http://blog.davidlawrence.com/index.php/mercury-dimes-ch-2-design-modifications/

I would really need a merc specialist to look at what's left of the 1919's details to see if they can determine if it's using an older hub here. >>

Why not start a new thread with just this dime and we can discuss the coin at length.

TD

seanq · February 9, 2015 12:09AM

<< 

<< 

<< As for the 1919 dime, definitely a doubled die. The first impression was only partially formed and fades out equidistant from the rim, which is why only the top part of the N of IN shows, while more of the R and most of the U of TRUST show. The same phenomenon can be seen on the classic 1916/1916 nickel.

Great find!

TD >>

Honestly my first thought is that it is a genuine doubled die but a counterfeit coin. The only way I could see that being a real mint product, given the very strong but very localized doubling, would be if there was a design hub change that year. Is that a listed variety I am not aware of? If not, is there any way a doubled die that strong on such a widely collected series could go unnoticed for almost 100 years?

Sean Reynolds >>

Not sure Sean - there were hub changes in 1916/1917/1918, but don't see anything for 1919 specifically.
http://blog.davidlawrence.com/index.php/mercury-dimes-ch-2-design-modifications/

I would really need a merc specialist to look at what's left of the 1919's details to see if they can determine if it's using an older hub here. >>

It is really a fascinating coin, if I were you I'd start a new thread on it. There are a bunch of Mercury dime specialists here who know all the varieties in the series, I would be very intereted to hear their take on it. I did check the CONECA variety master listing and there is no 1919 DDO listed there, which only means they've never seen one, not that it can't exist.

I am curiois, is there any doubling evident anywhere else on the obverse? I am thinking specifically the designer's initials, but anything in the hair or the face that shows any doubling of similar strength.

Sean Reynolds

CaptHenway · February 12, 2015 10:33AM

What else have you found in this treasure chest?

StrikeOutXXX · February 12, 2015 11:21AM

<< What else have you found in this treasure chest? >>

I don't think anything else even close to the 1919 DDO. I think that 1928 merc with the cool what I called die cracks pictured above but think are now tool marks of some sort is my next favorite for uniqueness.

I kind of ran out of time due to the 1919, but did the once over on the rest of the box. A ton of minor lincoln RPMs, some nice, but known Indian head RPDs, and and some laminations and a clashed Jefferson from what I remember I set aside. Probably won't get pics of those til after the weekend is over though.

koynekwest · February 12, 2015 11:27AM

The '43-S is a goodie. Too bad it wasn't a '43-P like the flip said tho.

koynekwest · February 12, 2015 11:35AM

And you're right-none even remotely stack up to that 1919. It's a VERY rare occurrence that something that major comes along. I'm sure the scramble is on to find more. It's going to be VERY interesting to see how many turn up in the next few months

BTW-I remember all those "clogged nines" and BIE liberties from days gone by. Believe it or not-those were fairly big deals from many years ago.

BLUEJAYWAY · February 12, 2015 1:45PM

<< And you're right-none even remotely stack up to that 1919. It's a VERY rare occurrence that something that major comes along. I'm sure the scramble is on to find more. It's going to be VERY interesting to see how many turn up in the next few months

BTW-I remember all those "clogged nines" and BIE liberties from days gone by. Believe it or not-those were fairly big deals from many years ago. >>

I agree. Especially after the Jean Cohen book came out in the early 70's. I know I found many BIE's/clog 9's back then on the Lincoln's.

BLUEJAYWAY · February 12, 2015 1:51PM

<< Here are the actual mechanical errors - didn't get a lot done today.

1901 Liberty Nickel with an Obv Lamimation (Reverse is uneventful)

1957D Lincoln - Partial collar strike?

1957D Lincoln - Partial collar strike as well? Very similar to the coin above

1941 Lincoln Curved Clip - Textbook clip, upraised rim transition, awesome blakesley, etc.

My favorite of the lot - 2x2 said 1948D (Can't see it, but who knows). This is a trainwreck of a coin. Can you identify this type of errors(s) and... what is the detail on the rim, a double strike from somewhere?

Thanks for all the comments so far, still have plenty to go through. >>

Like the Liberty nickel lamination, as it's my favorite type of error. Looking forward to seeing the other lams.

StrikeOutXXX · February 13, 2015 10:23AM

<< Like the Liberty nickel lamination, as it's my favorite type of error. Looking forward to seeing the other lams. >>

Here you go - quickie pics, for sure not up to my standards (especially the close-ups), but trying to get stuff ready for V-Day tomorrow.

1953 Lamination

1944 Lamination

One of the neater ones in the group - 1982P Jefferson with some clashing going on:

1866 repunched 6 Indian Head:

1867 repunched 67 kind of beat up:

Two 1894 Indian Heads repunched date:
#1

#2

1907 with a repunched 7

That's it for tonight - most of the Indian Heads are in the CPG, just in a rush to put their #. Those close-ups bug me though, will probably have to reshoot them after the weekend.

Enjoy

CaptHenway · February 13, 2015 10:45AM

Some nice die varieties there.

StrikeOutXXX · February 17, 2015 6:05AM

I think this is about the last of the photo-worthy coins in the box after the first go-through.

Three crusty 1941 DDO's, now I just need to figure which of the 22 of them they are lol. Pretty sure all 3 are the same though.

#1

#2

#3

Thanks for following along, some questions still to be answered:

* Which Breen the 1854-O Half is
* The 1946 D/D Half - known D/D, some MD, etc
* 1928-D Mercury Dime - Tool Marks, Die Cracks - what exactly are the 3 long & 2 smaller lines?

The rest have pretty much been answered - thanks for following along, this box has been great to me! 8-)

CaptHenway · February 17, 2015 6:41AM

Decent 1941.

Bodin · February 17, 2015 6:42AM

The '41s are FS-102, WDDO-002, BREEN #2155

georgiacop50 · February 17, 2015 6:48AM

OMG that 1919 dime !

When Dimeman see's that he is going to go nuts

StrikeOutXXX · February 17, 2015 6:51AM

<< OMG that 1919 dime !

When Dimeman see's that he is going to go nuts >>

LOL, yes, he is quite smitten with it.

We pulled the 1919 Dime out and made its own thread if you wanted to see - this is actually the 1919-P DDO Discovery Piece 8-)

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=937347

perfectstrike · February 17, 2015 12:32PM

Nice new pics. I'm enjoying the posts.
David

LanceNewmanOCC · May 12, 2015 1:11AM

.
strongest clashing i've seen on a jefferson by far!

<< One of the neater ones in the group - 1982P Jefferson with some clashing going on:

>>

Going through a few hundred errors/varieties - FUN - New pics 2/17 - ID Help Plz

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