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Question for error guys and minting process pro's

JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am looking at a 1993 ASE and noticed a couple of patterned die gouges that I can not figure out. Looking at the obverse there are 4 pointed die gouges that are seen on both sides of the coin on a horizontal level. One set at approx 8K, the other at 4K. the die markings show 3 large pointed gouges together with a fourth located a little lower and a little smaller on both sides of the coin.
Are these feeder finger gouges? Not sure what could cause these marks on both sides of the coin.
Can anyone explain this to me ? Just really curious.
Pardon my poor images, but I hope you can see what I am referring to. My explanation might be better than my images.

image
image
Some coins are just plain "Interesting"

Comments

  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    not seeing them really good

    coins for sale at link below (read carefully)
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/wvMmoUmVZySywyXj7

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting. Not familiar with that effect.

    No feeder fingers on the Proof presses. There is a rotating disc with reeded holes in it that bring planchets between the two dies, stops, acts as the collar during the strikes, and then carries the struck coin out during the next rotation.

    The marks on the die do look like they start on one side, continue through an imaginary arc across the design, and resume at the other side. My first thought is that the rotating disc got out of sync so that the planchets and the holes in the collar disc were off center when the dies cycled. Thus the upper die could have impacted the edge of the off-center collar, causing the marks.

    Nothing on the reverse die? Perhaps they pulled both dies and repolished them and they did not go back in together.

    I reserve the right to think about this more.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CasmanCasman Posts: 3,935 ✭✭
    No idea what would cause that but can see them very clearly.

    Your pics are fine.

    Not sure why the other poster can't see themimage
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Interesting. Not familiar with that effect.

    No feeder fingers on the Proof presses. There is a rotating disc with reeded holes in it that bring planchets between the two dies, stops, acts as the collar during the strikes, and then carries the struck coin out during the next rotation.

    The marks on the die do look like they start on one side, continue through an imaginary arc across the design, and resume at the other side. My first thought is that the rotating disc got out of sync so that the planchets and the holes in the collar disc were off center when the dies cycled. Thus the upper die could have impacted the edge of the off-center collar, causing the marks.

    Nothing on the reverse die? Perhaps they pulled both dies and repolished them and they did not go back in together.

    I reserve the right to think about this more.

    TD >>



    Hey TD
    Nothing at all on the reverse. The marking/gouges are the same on both sides of the ASE on the obverse only.
    It is interesting and very noticeable with the silver in hand. You are correct in that if you drew a horizontal line across the obverse, both sides are equal and level.

    Silverpop - the marks emanate from the rims and both point toward the bottom of the planchet at the same angle.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • tincuptincup Posts: 5,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Neat effect; appears that they are frosted. It's got me stumped for an explanation...
    ----- kj
  • Hard to say for sure without seeing them in person, but they appear to be small die dents (damage occurred to the obverse die.) I'd think it would have some value to a silver eagle collector since they're pretty severe (presuming that's what it is.)
    www.sullivannumismatics.com Dealer in Mint Error Coins.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pretty cool and really surprised you even noticed them image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 17,369 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Like the others, can't really explain what caused those but I can tell you they are very, very interesting! Does anyone know of this ever being recognized? Pretty cool my friend. That's a keeper.image

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Quite intriguing... will pull my '93's out and see if I have such marks... Cheers, RickO
  • LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭
    While the Capt. is reserving the right to think about this some more,
    I think he is correct (as he usually is) that it is a problem with
    the reeding collar being out of alignment. It seems each of these marks
    coincide with a reed point.
    This was the year proofs were begun at Phil. & not at S.F. and their
    equipment may not have been ready for it.

    Rocco, are you able to see the reeding from the rev. side & if so, are there
    any signs of the reeding being off center?

    Looking through a number of ASE's for '93 & surrounding years, in CoinFacts,
    there are a few examples that have odd strike patterns on the rims.
    Just my two cents!
    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>While the Capt. is reserving the right to think about this some more,
    I think he is correct (as he usually is) that it is a problem with
    the reeding collar being out of alignment. It seems each of these marks
    coincide with a reed point.
    This was the year proofs were begun at Phil. & not at S.F. and their
    equipment may not have been ready for it.

    Rocco, are you able to see the reeding from the rev. side & if so, are there
    any signs of the reeding being off center?

    Looking through a number of ASE's for '93 & surrounding years, in CoinFacts,
    there are a few examples that have odd strike patterns on the rims.
    Just my two cents! >>



    Hey LML,

    I just had a chance to look her over carefully. The marks do coincide with the reed points, but the reeding looks to be normal overall.
    Looking closely at the reverse, there are no signs whatsoever of this or any other anomaly.

    One observation to note:
    If you drew a line from these "gouge lines" from both sides, they both point directly to the dead center, K6, on the coin.
    They must be used for some sort of alignment purpose...or so one could conclude.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OY Vey! Bust halves must be slow going and now he's lookin' for varieties on silver eagle bullion. Oh well, give you something to do while the girls are enjoying college eh? image
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>OY Vey! Bust halves must be slow going and now he's lookin' for varieties on silver eagle bullion. Oh well, give you something to do while the girls are enjoying college eh? image >>



    3 daughters.
    You knew I would go off the deep end sooner or later
    image
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting !!! image
    Timbuk3
  • howardshowards Posts: 1,241 ✭✭✭
    No idea what caused the marks in this instance, but visually they are reminiscent of die fatigue breaks that I see often on shield nickels.
  • goodmoney4badmoneygoodmoney4badmoney Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it's die damage from contact with collar reeding, as speculated previously.

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