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Hairlined coin used as pocket piece to remove hairlines?

ARCOARCO Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭✭✭
I can't find any topics on the subject, so I thought I would inquire of the experienced collectors here:

Let's say there is a fabulous and scarce AU coin that has great AU details, but has obvious and probably fairly strong hairlines from a cleaning. 1) Have any collectors here taken such a coin as a pocket piece to wear the grade down a notch, enough to remove the hairlines?. 2) Are hairlines completely gone that the coin might holder? 3) What is the time frame for a coin to wear - say from AU55 to AU53 or AU50? 4) Are there other methods which simulate circulation, but that do not harm the coin...like a rock tumbler set on low (with cloth and other coins perhaps, which simulate circulation)?

Anyway, this is something that has intrigued me for years, but I just haven't been able to find much from other collectors and feedback.

Gracias,

Tyler

Comments

  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    nature should remove that cleaned surface
    i wouldn't toss it in no tumbler

    i'd carry it in pocket with other coins
    take it out every once in awhile before washing my hands
    maybe forget it in my pocket at wash time....a time or 2
    and let nature do it's magic until that cleaned surface wore away naturally
    not doctoring if nature does it

    not sure how long such would take as it would depend how deep some knucklehead cleaned it
    might even look better then the cleaned starting grade down a notch or 2
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,712 ✭✭✭✭✭
    By the time the hairlines are all gone it will be at least one grade lower. So, is it worth more as an XF or a cleaned AU coin?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your not going to want contact marks from other coins in the tumbler.

    Honestly I think the tumbler would yield you a coin with a polished look.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,712 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Your not going to want contact marks from other coins in the tumbler.

    Honestly I think the tumbler would yield you a coin with a polished look. >>



    Agree. Also, based on my experience, using it as a pocket piece may result in a burnished look.

    Can we get a detailed high resolution pic of this coin?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You could place the coin inside a cotton bag with other non needed edge coins and place it atop your clothes dryer.

    You want something that vibrates to create mild in pocket type movement...

    Now just don't get carried away and look for something in your wife's naughty drawer! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    "Let's say there is a fabulous and scarce AU coin "

    ^^^ this is very important address you mention ^^^
    just how scarce
    as some scarce coins...issues become less important versus attainability
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Your not going to want contact marks from other coins in the tumbler.

    Honestly I think the tumbler would yield you a coin with a polished look. >>



    Agree. Also, based on my experience, using it as a pocket piece may result in a burnished look.

    Can we get a detailed high resolution pic of this coin? >>



    Coin looks to be AU53- AU55. If it were worn down to an AU50 or XF45...and it could holder afterwards, the drop in grade would still be worth it. I have been an avid collector of Barber Halves for 15 years. Never once had the opportunity to own an XF or AU 1897-O that had originality and eye appeal the way I like 'em.

    image
    image

    Tyler
  • lavalava Posts: 3,286 ✭✭✭
    Hairlines tend not to be limited to high points, so you would presumably wear down all the high points to ever reach the other areas. That hardly seems worth it. You might be better off allowing some natural toning to soften the look.
    I brake for ear bars.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,507 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's the crux of the situation. How to find the coin I like without making it image
  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    with that image...the "AU" has been polished away
    au needs some remaining mint luster...even if isolated

    one sad shame there image
    i don't know enough to advise you here
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>with that image...the "AU" has been polished away
    au needs some remaining mint luster...even if isolated

    one sad shame there image
    i don't know enough to advise you here >>

    Tough one I know. If it were worn down to an XF40 without hairlines, it would be worth the price paid. Its gotta holder though and actually look like it just came out of circulation.

    Tyler
  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>That's the crux of the situation. How to find the coin I like without making it image >>

    Ain't that the truth.

    Some coins you just gotta go to great lengths and a little natural doctoring! image
  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    maybe buried in the back yard for a year or 2 might help with a treasure map safe n secure with a big "X" on it
    the details would be preserved

    you don't have a dog i hopeimage
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭
    then in 2 years you can have a thread...look what i found buried in my back yard image
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭


    << <i>Your not going to want contact marks from other coins in the tumbler.

    Honestly I think the tumbler would yield you a coin with a polished look. >>



    I used to have one of those rock polish kits, as a kid, but I never thought to put coins in it.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you have a cat try placing in the kitty litter box for a year image

    image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,712 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Perhaps letting it tone naturally would help its appearance (like wrapping it in a Taco Bell napkin for several months). It would still be cleaned and you wouldn't get a straight grade from any of the major grading services.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • lasvegasteddylasvegasteddy Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If you have a cat try placing in the kitty litter box for a year image
    image >>



    cat scratch fever may have worked for ted nugent but surely would be a travesty for coins
    everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see


  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Perhaps letting it tone naturally would help its appearance (like wrapping it in a Taco Bell napkin for several months). It would still be cleaned and you wouldn't get a straight grade from any of the major grading services. >>



    Taco Bell napkin could cause some fruity color progression on impaired surfaces?

    A old non acid free Kraft envelope with sulfur content on a sunny windowsill used to be the old school way to re-tone something.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You could place the coin inside a cotton bag with other non needed edge coins and place it atop your clothes dryer.

    You want something that vibrates to create mild in pocket type movement...

    Now just don't get carried away and look for something in your wife's naughty drawer! image >>



    The right bra might help lift the coin a grade!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,712 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Perhaps letting it tone naturally would help its appearance (like wrapping it in a Taco Bell napkin for several months). It would still be cleaned and you wouldn't get a straight grade from any of the major grading services. >>



    Taco Bell napkin could cause some fruity color progression on impaired surfaces?

    A old non acid free Kraft envelope with sulfur content on a sunny windowsill used to be the old school way to re-tone something. >>



    If you try to retone a cleaned coin you should first remove any oils/grease from the coin with acetone to expose clean surfaces.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,507 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All joking aside, though. image
    … find a coin that you like, or one that isn't screwed up, rather than try to fix one that's already "damaged" beyond tolerance.
    Any time spent fixing one seems counterproductive, to me.
    No time to work in a lab or wait around for "experiments". That's kind of how my simple mind thinks.
  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>All joking aside, though. image
    … find a coin that you like, or one that isn't screwed up, rather than try to fix one that's already "damaged" beyond tolerance.
    Any time spent fixing one seems counterproductive, to me.
    No time to work in a lab or wait around for "experiments". That's kind of how my simple mind thinks. >>

    I think yours is probably the best advice. It has been fifteen years looking. I guess I can wait another 15.

    Tyler
  • DaveWcoinsDaveWcoins Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>All joking aside, though. image
    … find a coin that you like, or one that isn't screwed up, rather than try to fix one that's already "damaged" beyond tolerance.
    Any time spent fixing one seems counterproductive, to me.
    No time to work in a lab or wait around for "experiments". That's kind of how my simple mind thinks. >>

    I think yours is probably the best advice. It has been fifteen years looking. I guess I can wait another 15.

    Tyler >>



    That seems to be by far the best advice.
    Dave Wnuck. Redbook contributor; long time PNG Member; listed on the PCGS Board of Experts. PM me with your email address to receive my e-newsletter, and visit DaveWcoins.com Find me on eBay at davewcoins
  • dogwooddogwood Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭
    So, now that that's settled, how much you want for the janky '97o?image
    We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
  • TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think its possible to carry the coin in a pocket with other coins and handle the coin as if a normal coin to simulate circulation and possibly wear it down to a coin that would grade, but I don't know how long it would take. It would likely look worse until it toned a little bit after you stopped " circulating " it.
    Trade $'s
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hairlines tend not to be limited to high points, so you would presumably wear down all the high points to ever reach the other areas. That hardly seems worth it. You might be better off allowing some natural toning to soften the look. >>



    Yes. If the hairlines go right up to the devices the coin will have to wear a lot
    more to look natural. The best bet in such a case is to carry it with several coins
    so they can wear up right next to the devices. It will require an AU-55 to wear
    down nearly to XF-45. If the hairlines are less severe or don't include the area
    near lettering and devices much less wear is needed.

    It's very easy to lose pock pieces. Try carrying it only when very active to minimize
    chances for loss.
    Tempus fugit.
  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,428 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So, now that that's settled, how much you want for the janky '97o?image >>

    It is listed on Ebay by Arniejr1 right now for $1995.00 I believe.

    Tyler
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,631 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I tried the pocket piece trick once with a valueless, cleaned, holed 1955 Lincoln. Put it on my keychain for 3 years while I was in college. Know what happened? It got much worse. Coin looked even more scrubbed and burnished as time went on. I wouldn't try it with anything valuable.


  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,631 ✭✭✭✭✭
    double post.
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,631 ✭✭✭✭✭
    double double post. image
  • I was talking with Skip Fazzari who was at NGC/NCS now at ICG dismissed the universal stigma of "cleaning" on holders when it may have been cause accidentally, ie in a pocket and is minor. Though the censure against harshly or clearly cleaned and impaired coins is deserved.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I tried it with this quarter for a few days, carrying it and occasionally gently handling it,

    image

    however as PerryHall said, as the minor hairlines diminished, it began to look ever so slightly more glossy, so I stopped carrying it and stuck in an album instead. I'd say generally, any method that takes less than a few years is more likely to make it look worse than make it look better, and that would include tumbling, rubbing, or taco bell napkining, etc. Maybe a kraft envelope for a few years would work, but I'd leave it in normal coin storage locations, not on a water heater or windowsill, again because you don't want to hurry it. Might also try a leather bag with some junky and dark silver coins for a while, back in the envelope, etc, and be real patient.

    Or just buy one you like as it is image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • You could have tried the Mehrig holder, but it may take a couple years to get the level of toning via sulfur, etc..
  • vplite99vplite99 Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So some think the best way to handle a tampered-with coin is further tampering?

    It is what it is, hopefully it was bought as cleaned.
    Vplite99
  • If you like the coin for what it is does it really matter if it was cleaned in its past as we collect coins for the coin not for their worth, correct?
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting topic, not my post but
    thanks for the information !!! image
    Timbuk3
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,126 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Now that Cuba is on its way back to almost free trade with the USA will Cuban cigars be of some value in our example here?
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hmmmmm. The 1897-O Barber half you show already looks a little "off" in terms of polishing. You're commenting on hairlines, but if it was harshly cleaned all the original surface texture is likely missing. Even with no hairlines it would likely come back "cleaned" and still be a problem coin. I don't see any luster at all, which absolutely should be visible on an AU coin.

    You could generate wear, and make it into lower XF or higher VF coin. Even XF coins should ideally show luster in protected areas and you still have a problem there.... Even if you did that you'd have a coin that was likely white, with no patina. Most XF Barber halves were pulled from circulation long ago and have developed an age-appropriate look. If you could turn this into a VF/XF piece and let it sit around for a few decades you'd probably have the coin you're after.....

    I really think you'd be better off buying what you're looking for instead of trying to manufacture it. Sure, they aren't exactly common, but I doubt it would require more than a few years to find a problem-free example if you put your nose to the grindstone and enlist the help of a few dealers.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Running it through a tumbler or shell cleaner will make it very shiny... and there will be no luster... anything you do will not improve the coin beyond it's present state....although heavy sulfur tarnish (done with special equipment) would hide the cleaning.... and that would be AT though undetectable. Cheers, RickO

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