What doesn't make this a 64

bestday

I know blue label is the 1st caution .. ..Greysheet bid for a PCGS is $ 3,000 . looking at the photo what stands out, saying it is not a 64?

http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/244488/1890-S-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-ANACS-MS-64-DMPL[/L]

BillJones

It has been dipped and there are a number verticle hairlines running from top to bobbom on the obverse. It also has a semi-cloudy look to it which could be from the condition of the dies or the dipping. If it is from the dipping, it's what dealers call "fried" which means they put it a strong solution like TARN-X or it was left in too long. The light marks on the cheek are consistent with a marginal MS-64, but given the rest of the issues, I don't see any way that it could cross to a PCGS or NGC MS-64 holder.

DennisH

I think what you're really asking is, what makes it not a $3,000 coin? There are several possible answers, including:
– The ANACS holder.
– The huge difference in price between MS64DMPL and MS64PL.
– The massive difficulty of getting anyone else's DMPLs into a PCGS holder at the same grade and still called DMPL.
– The different grading standards for DMPL that the three main TPGs have.
– The heavy metal flow lines on both the obverse and reverse which, admittedly, make for lots of visual flash and zing, but which PCGS doesn't like for DMPLs.
– The substantial number of top-to-bottom lines on the obverse, which I can't tell whether they're on the holder or on the coin.

machoponcho

It might make 64 at a more respected grading service and keep the DMPL. I understand die polish lines are pretty normal with DMPL Morgans, but I wouldn't take the chance. They could be die polish lines on the obverse or hairlines. Or there could be presence of both. Because of the mirrored surfaces especially, hairlines are easy to hide in a photo. I wouldn't bid anything serious without an in-hand inspection, but GC doesn't offer that that I know of. It is a nice coin for sure, but won't bring even half of greysheet, might bring only a third with this being grade sensitive and a better date. Even better date NGC DMPL Morgans on average bring 50%-75% of Greysheet. Most of the 4-figure ones really have to be PCGS to bring greysheet. But then you probably already know this, hence your OP question.

BillJones

Usually coins are in second tier certification holders for a reason. Sometimes they can be cracked out and crossed a the same grade or perhaps with a down grade that still leaves them economically viable. When the gap between prices is due to a one point grading differnece or a designation like "cameo" or "P-L" that move to the first class holder becomes a lot more uncertain and riskier.

leothelyon

<< <i>I know blue label is the 1st caution .. ..Greysheet bid for a PCGS is $ 3,000 . looking at the photo what stands out, saying it is not a 64?

Text >>

rhedden

I agree with much of what's been said about the pricing, but that looks like a super MS64 coin to me, minus the one cheek mark. Registry collectors usually want to see these in PCGS 64 DMPL holders before they pay up for them. Otherwise, they might end up submitting it themselves, only to get a grade like MS64 PL that is worth a whole heck of a lot less than $3,000.

DRUNNER

FWIW, as a collector of the older holders (but that being my only perceived expertise), I have noticed personally that current standards for PL & DMPL in PCGS are much tougher now than back in the early days of their holders. That can be verified by my conversations with several collector/dealers here at shows. I realize this is a current ANACS and that is not my point. but my point is that you REALLY need DMPL to make it now, whereas in some other TPG's holder, that may not be the case.

Not a hijack -- just related -- there is absolutely NO WAY I would crack one of my Doily PLs or DMPLs for ANY reason, including huge increase in price. They would never make it back to their present designation, although many might upgrade numerically . . . . . . .

Drunner

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bestday

<< <i>

<< <i>FWIW, as a collector of the older holders (but that being my only perceived expertise), I have noticed personally that current standards for PL & DMPL in PCGS are much tougher now than back in the early days of their holders. That can be verified by my conversations with several collector/dealers here at shows. I realize this is a current ANACS and that is not my point. but my point is that you REALLY need DMPL to make it now, whereas in some other TPG's holder, that may not be the case.

Not a hijack -- just related -- there is absolutely NO WAY I would crack one of my Doily PLs or DMPLs for ANY reason, including huge increase in price. They would never make it back to their present designation, although many might upgrade numerically . . . . . . .

Drunner >>





I outright refuse to buy any OGH's that are PL or DMPL. They almost always fall short of what you should want in a PL/DMPL. If I'm paying the DMPL premium, I want a frosty coin with liquid mirrors... they're out there, and you'll pay a further premium for them most of the time, but it is definitely worth it.
Coin sold Sunday for $ 800.00

Not sure when standards tightened up, but most of those OGH's are nowhere near modern standards. >>



If older DMPLs are not up today's standards . should these should be purchased only, if in hand viewed.. should older DMPLs or be discounted ..Thanks for great info

Cacoinguy

I have also noticed the ogh dmpls sell for less then dmpls in the new pcgs holders due to standards etc- cant you just send them to pcgs for the reholder service? It costs $10 and you get the new holder it doesnt get regraded or anything

DennisH

<< <i>I have also noticed the ogh dmpls sell for less then dmpls in the new pcgs holders due to standards etc- cant you just send them to pcgs for the reholder service? It costs $10 and you get the new holder it doesnt get regraded or anything >>

That's the theory. But the reality is – and PCGS President Don Willis has said it – that PCGS can change the grade or designation of any of its coins that are sent in if it judges the current one to be incorrect.

P.S. #1 – Reholders cost $12 now, and the per-order processing fee is up to $10.
P.S. #2 – The coin sold of $807.40 including buyer's fee.