Do I have an obligation to mail this out again? Ebay Purchase
Dennis88
Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
Back in October, I list a number of relatively cheap coins on eBay for auction. They sell, and a few get bought by a buyer in Russia (yay me). I do ship to Russia although I never like it, but this guy has bought from me before and I didn't have a problem back then so I figure I do it again. Buyer pays, I put them in a nice bubble envelope and off they go to Siberia (literally, I looked it up and it's actually one of those cities in Russia closed to foreigners).
A month later, the buyer opens 4 cases as he never received the package. I explain (as I always do) that the cheap method of shipping he paid for is not traceable outside of the US. Eventually the case gets escalated and eBay gives the buyer his money back, and, in a rare moment of eBay gesture, they also refund me the money. I wasn't too upset about it as unlike most cases where they just take my money out of my paypal account I actually am out nothing so it's all good.
Fast forward to yesterday, and to my surprise I find that package back in my mailbox, dirty and well, with a Russian sticker on it that gives multiple options why it wasn't delivered, but nothing was checked, so I'm not exactly sure why. Then this morning I get a message from the buyer, wondering why it got delivered back to me (he must have been keeping an eye on the tracking).
What shall I do now? The buyer didn't pay for the item, but technically I got the money. I lose several hundred dollars a year with cases like these (I consider it cost of doing business), so I wouldn't mind just keeping the coins and relisting them eventually, but that's probably not the wisest thing to do (karma, anyone?). Any ideas?
Dennis
A month later, the buyer opens 4 cases as he never received the package. I explain (as I always do) that the cheap method of shipping he paid for is not traceable outside of the US. Eventually the case gets escalated and eBay gives the buyer his money back, and, in a rare moment of eBay gesture, they also refund me the money. I wasn't too upset about it as unlike most cases where they just take my money out of my paypal account I actually am out nothing so it's all good.
Fast forward to yesterday, and to my surprise I find that package back in my mailbox, dirty and well, with a Russian sticker on it that gives multiple options why it wasn't delivered, but nothing was checked, so I'm not exactly sure why. Then this morning I get a message from the buyer, wondering why it got delivered back to me (he must have been keeping an eye on the tracking).
What shall I do now? The buyer didn't pay for the item, but technically I got the money. I lose several hundred dollars a year with cases like these (I consider it cost of doing business), so I wouldn't mind just keeping the coins and relisting them eventually, but that's probably not the wisest thing to do (karma, anyone?). Any ideas?
Dennis
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Comments
Secondly, just resale it to......the Russian guy but he must pay.
Actually, the kind thing to do is contact Ebay
Expect to refund them.
Expect to be charged for Ebay money sent to buyer.
And if all the rings true.........have the guy pay.....again...but use a box, a 5 x 4, something to that nature. There's nothing like mailing something that gets someone's attention.
I really don't know what you should do, i haven't given it much thought. Than again, I have never mailed outseide of the good ole USA
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
peacockcoins
next time, i suggest using the global shipping program.
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For the record, the total amount of sales was less than $100.
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In your case, I suppose I would tell the buyer it is NOT worth trying to re send it, unless you believe it's WORTH the second attempt. I personally think it's YOUR call.
Me ?
Maybe send the buyer an invoice for actual shipping via paypal and resend it. Ebay gave him his money back , so its free coins for him less the reship charge. You got paid by ebay so you have what you wanted.
Ebay has probably charged you somewhere along the line for something you didn't owe so no biggie.
<< <i>Back in October, I list a number of relatively cheap coins on eBay for auction. They sell, and a few get bought by a buyer in Russia (yay me). I do ship to Russia although I never like it, but this guy has bought from me before and I didn't have a problem back then so I figure I do it again. Buyer pays, I put them in a nice bubble envelope and off they go to Siberia (literally, I looked it up and it's actually one of those cities in Russia closed to foreigners).
A month later, the buyer opens 4 cases as he never received the package. I explain (as I always do) that the cheap method of shipping he paid for is not traceable outside of the US. Eventually the case gets escalated and eBay gives the buyer his money back, and, in a rare moment of eBay gesture, they also refund me the money. I wasn't too upset about it as unlike most cases where they just take my money out of my paypal account I actually am out nothing so it's all good.
Fast forward to yesterday, and to my surprise I find that package back in my mailbox, dirty and well, with a Russian sticker on it that gives multiple options why it wasn't delivered, but nothing was checked, so I'm not exactly sure why. Then this morning I get a message from the buyer, wondering why it got delivered back to me (he must have been keeping an eye on the tracking).
What shall I do now? The buyer didn't pay for the item, but technically I got the money. I lose several hundred dollars a year with cases like these (I consider it cost of doing business), so I wouldn't mind just keeping the coins and relisting them eventually, but that's probably not the wisest thing to do (karma, anyone?). Any ideas?
Dennis >>
Very confused here Dennis. If the buyer was unable to track the package how could he have possibly known it was returned to you. Especially since he opened 4 cases against you?
I would probably advise you to contact eBay since they've paid the buyer and paid you. I would think that since the buyer has been reimbursed for his/her funds that s/he would have no claim to the coins in question and I'm still curious how the buyer knew that the coins were returned to you if he had no way of tracking them?
The name is LEE!
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<< <i>Back in October, I list a number of relatively cheap coins on eBay for auction. They sell, and a few get bought by a buyer in Russia (yay me). I do ship to Russia although I never like it, but this guy has bought from me before and I didn't have a problem back then so I figure I do it again. Buyer pays, I put them in a nice bubble envelope and off they go to Siberia (literally, I looked it up and it's actually one of those cities in Russia closed to foreigners).
A month later, the buyer opens 4 cases as he never received the package. I explain (as I always do) that the cheap method of shipping he paid for is not traceable outside of the US. Eventually the case gets escalated and eBay gives the buyer his money back, and, in a rare moment of eBay gesture, they also refund me the money. I wasn't too upset about it as unlike most cases where they just take my money out of my paypal account I actually am out nothing so it's all good.
Fast forward to yesterday, and to my surprise I find that package back in my mailbox, dirty and well, with a Russian sticker on it that gives multiple options why it wasn't delivered, but nothing was checked, so I'm not exactly sure why. Then this morning I get a message from the buyer, wondering why it got delivered back to me (he must have been keeping an eye on the tracking).
What shall I do now? The buyer didn't pay for the item, but technically I got the money. I lose several hundred dollars a year with cases like these (I consider it cost of doing business), so I wouldn't mind just keeping the coins and relisting them eventually, but that's probably not the wisest thing to do (karma, anyone?). Any ideas?
Dennis >>
Very confused here Dennis. If the buyer was unable to track the package how could he have possibly known it was returned to you. Especially since he opened 4 cases against you?
I'm still curious how the buyer knew that the coins were returned to you if he had no way of tracking them? >>
It was untrackable only outside of the U. S. Once it got back to the U. S. it was trackable again. The buyer kept entering the tracking number until he finally got a hit.
With the coins....I would consider selling them, again, to the guy in Russia BUT I would ask for a non-refundable type of payment...outside of ebay (since the ebay transaction is considered closed by them, and you and the buyer already have each other's contact info, I would do it).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Personally I'd never ship out of the US. There are plenty of nice people on eBay that cause problems - why seek out more trouble?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Back in October, I list a number of relatively cheap coins on eBay for auction. They sell, and a few get bought by a buyer in Russia (yay me). I do ship to Russia although I never like it, but this guy has bought from me before and I didn't have a problem back then so I figure I do it again. Buyer pays, I put them in a nice bubble envelope and off they go to Siberia (literally, I looked it up and it's actually one of those cities in Russia closed to foreigners).
A month later, the buyer opens 4 cases as he never received the package. I explain (as I always do) that the cheap method of shipping he paid for is not traceable outside of the US. Eventually the case gets escalated and eBay gives the buyer his money back, and, in a rare moment of eBay gesture, they also refund me the money. I wasn't too upset about it as unlike most cases where they just take my money out of my paypal account I actually am out nothing so it's all good.
Fast forward to yesterday, and to my surprise I find that package back in my mailbox, dirty and well, with a Russian sticker on it that gives multiple options why it wasn't delivered, but nothing was checked, so I'm not exactly sure why. Then this morning I get a message from the buyer, wondering why it got delivered back to me (he must have been keeping an eye on the tracking).
What shall I do now? The buyer didn't pay for the item, but technically I got the money. I lose several hundred dollars a year with cases like these (I consider it cost of doing business), so I wouldn't mind just keeping the coins and relisting them eventually, but that's probably not the wisest thing to do (karma, anyone?). Any ideas?
Dennis >>
Very confused here Dennis. If the buyer was unable to track the package how could he have possibly known it was returned to you. Especially since he opened 4 cases against you?
I'm still curious how the buyer knew that the coins were returned to you if he had no way of tracking them? >>
It was untrackable only outside of the U. S. Once it got back to the U. S. it was trackable again. The buyer kept entering the tracking number until he finally got a hit. >>
I'd have to wonder why since he'd already filed the dispute and gotten reimbursed?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>No, the buyer has been made whole.
Personally I'd never ship out of the US. There are plenty of nice people on eBay that cause problems - why seek out more trouble? >>
Ebay is a global environment. But you're right. The buyer is made whole, but he still wants to know why the coins were returned.
Some recent feedback is from very nice people who's languages I do not speak. But like music, the language of a collector is "passion'' for what they're collecting. Just a perspective (albeit world wide)
ღஐƸ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒஐღ Vielen Dank ღஐƸ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒஐღeinfach perfektღஐƸ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒஐღ
Vielen Dank für die reibungslose Transaktion. Sehr empfehlenswerter Verkäufer.
Très bonne transaction, très satisfait, magnifique, excellent, vendeur OK…….
Спасибо за своевременную доставку. Ольга
Must we speak the same language to be good neighbors ?
if you still have packaging, take pic of Russian sticker
and send it to buyer saying
'these are all the reaqsons it was returned to me'
you do have an obligation to return the refund money to eBay *cough, cough*
<< <i>Ok, I wasn't looking to get frowned upon for shipping overseas in the first place; the majority of items do indeed go registered, and I never had a problem with that. The amount for these just don't warrant registered shipping overseas because I would get a lot less bidders and the item would sell for a lot less. I generally have a problem once or twice in maybe 50 sales, which are pretty good odds I'd say. The extra money I make with that is worth the risk for me. Also, the Global Shipping Program is anything but friendly to buyers and would cost me a lot of money. eBay will charge stupid amounts in fees that are not even correct according to regulations. I've opted out of that.
For the record, the total amount of sales was less than $100. >>
Well, I was thinking along the lines of Priority mail. How much more is that? Nut I see your point
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
The buyer may call ebay and inform them you received the coins back also.
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don't worry about paying ebay back they aren't too bright. The recently cancelled a listing of mine they said was in violation. They for some reason didn't realize it had sold and already been delivered. The refunded me the final value and listing fees . I had already been paid and the buyer had his item . So it was basically a fee free listing .
It was a scrap catalytic converter and the reason they cancelled it was I committed the unpardonable sin of describing it too well. I wrote in the listing what it came off and ebay was concerned that might lead a buyer to try to install it
<< <i>I would call ebay and tell them the coins ended up back in your possession and let them decide on the course of action for you. Ebay made everyone whole while the coins were lost so now that they are found they may prefer to get their money back.
The buyer may call ebay and inform them you received the coins back also. >>
I like this answer
<< <i>If ebay paid you for a loss and refunded him...ebay is out money... you need to straighten it out with ebay... and if you dont think ebay watches these things you are sadly mistaken >>
Hoard the keys.
Buyer opens a case.
Buyer gets a refund.
Then Buyer asks why it came back to you?
Well, duh.
Tell him that you will resend if he pays for secure shipping.
Oh, yeah.
And for the merchandise.
BHNC #203
<< <i>Ebay is a global environment. But you're right. >>
Since I can't insure a package outside of the US, I use eBay's Global Shipping Program where eBay rips off the buyer with outrageous fees.
But a part of those fees are a Risk Premium which they charge to cover packages that are lost in foreign postal systems.
I've had buyers ask why S/H was $84 when I have $3.25 listed in the ad. Most of that is the "risk premium"
Heck if I could charge $84 to ship a $200 coin I would.
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<< <i>Refund eBay and move on. >>
I agree.
<< <i>If ebay paid you for a loss and refunded him...ebay is out money... you need to straighten it out with ebay... and if you dont think ebay watches these things you are sadly mistaken >>
Do you want to be on hold for 2 hours to return the money ? Do you want to take the chance they won't randomly decide you to restrict your account or otherwise create some sort of chaos for your seller account?
Don't invite disaster
<< <i>If ebay paid you for a loss and refunded him...ebay is out money... you need to straighten it out with ebay... and if you dont think ebay watches these things you are sadly mistaken >>
If I recall, the one time this happened to me eBay told me it was done and to keep the money. It was long enough ago that is ask again, but that's what I remember.
<< <i>Personally I'd never ship out of the US. There are plenty of nice people on eBay that cause problems - why seek out more trouble? >>
a huge number of buyers for foreign coins don't live in the USA. If you sell that material, shipping internationally is very important. I have different shipping rules based on the quality of each country's post office, but considering there are weeks when 75% of the value of what I sold is exported, international shipping is a must. I send a few thousand coins out of the country each year.
<< <i>Well, I was thinking along the lines of Priority mail. How much more is that? Nut I see your point >>
It depends. Priority flat rate envelopes are about double the cost of a first class package and on par with first class registered. However, these have the same "tracking" as first class shipments. To get the better priority tracking with the big label, you have to do it by weight and the cost gets somewhat close to an express flat rate envelope. As a general rule I won't offer priority international. If i want the tracking or it is high value (over $400) it goes by express.
<< <i> How would you manage to even do that? Call eBay CS in Sri Lanka and tell them the problem? >>
Sell enough and you get an American call center
Curiously I did have a package to Ukraine go missing about 4 years ago - baby clothes I sent to my sister there for my new nephew. I can only imagine that they ended up in a bazaar somewhere as "clothes from America" with a better asking price.
<< <i>Once the transaction was settled (by both of you getting refunds) it is closed. The buyer has no claim on the coins, and you have no obligation to the buyer. Certainly you can try and contact eBay and say you have the coins back and give them their money back, but I am sure that will not be as easy at it sounds since they do not support that use case easily. Either way, eBay will not want the coin, just the money, so you are free to relist. >>
If eBay was really serious about getting their $$$ back, they'd be monitoring that tracking # just like the buyer was. To them it's not worth the effort and just a cost of doing business. Since the OP already has a willing buyer, I'd offer him the stuff at eBay final bid plus registered mail, payment by PP.
So you should resist coin at with no reserve 3 day auction US buyers only. Then offer that amount of money it sells for back to PayPal.
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
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<< <i>If ebay paid you for a loss and refunded him...ebay is out money... you need to straighten it out with ebay... and if you dont think ebay watches these things you are sadly mistaken >>
Do you want to be on hold for 2 hours to return the money ? Do you want to take the chance they won't randomly decide you to restrict your account or otherwise create some sort of chaos for your seller account?
Don't invite disaster >>
In other words, simply steal the money from Ebay. Hey, they're a big company--they'll never miss it. Sort of like insurance fraud. Who cares that the theft simply raises rates and fees for everyone else.
I had a case once where I refunded a transaction for a customer who claimed not to have received an item. The same day, eaby refunded them from my paypal, so the customer got a double refund all at my cost, and I called ebay and they said they would credit me, but they never did. Just mentioning this to say I don't think you ethically owe ebay any money back especially since everything was handled through them.
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<< <i>What do you think is the most ethical and proper way to handle this , now ? >>
Handle what, ebay or the buyer? I'd just fuhgeddaboutit.
eBay takes quite a bit of money from me when buyers claim that they never received items, so I might ponder it for awhile and than decide.
As for not selling outside of the US, that is not an option. Period. I have several reasons for that and the lack of sales I would get is just one.
Dennis
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<< <i>
<< <i>What do you think is the most ethical and proper way to handle this , now ? >>
Handle what, ebay or the buyer? I'd just fuhgeddaboutit. >>
I meant; as ethical and proper are concerned, how does one handle self ?
My thoughts are 1) Buyer is satisfied and made whole, 2) Seller is made whole, but not completely satisfied. (something is still being processed)
Im in the Fuhgeddaboutit, camp, at this juncture, too. However,… as obligation goes, the answer is "NO". The OP has no obligation to mail the item out again, in my opinion.
There was a point I thought "Why not send it back if the buyer really wanted it?" Although I am having second thoughts about that, after subsequent reading.
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<< <i>
<< <i>If ebay paid you for a loss and refunded him...ebay is out money... you need to straighten it out with ebay... and if you dont think ebay watches these things you are sadly mistaken >>
Do you want to be on hold for 2 hours to return the money ? Do you want to take the chance they won't randomly decide you to restrict your account or otherwise create some sort of chaos for your seller account?
Don't invite disaster >>
In other words, simply steal the money from Ebay. Hey, they're a big company--they'll never miss it. Sort of like insurance fraud. Who cares that the theft simply raises rates and fees for everyone else. >>
How is it stealing from Ebay ? It was an actual sale that went awry over a long period of time it wasn't deliberate. Ebay usually steals the sellers money in these cases , for some reason they did not in this case. I'm sure they will take the next ten sellers money as usual.
Actually the post office or 2 post offices shipped it back from Russia to the states for free . Do you think the seller should go to the post office and give them money? Then pop over to Russia and give them a few rubles for their trouble as well?
Rob
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If ebay paid you for a loss and refunded him...ebay is out money... you need to straighten it out with ebay... and if you dont think ebay watches these things you are sadly mistaken >>
Do you want to be on hold for 2 hours to return the money ? Do you want to take the chance they won't randomly decide you to restrict your account or otherwise create some sort of chaos for your seller account?
Don't invite disaster >>
In other words, simply steal the money from Ebay. Hey, they're a big company--they'll never miss it. Sort of like insurance fraud. Who cares that the theft simply raises rates and fees for everyone else. >>
How is it stealing from Ebay ? It was an actual sale that went awry over a long period of time it wasn't deliberate. Ebay usually steals the sellers money in these cases , for some reason they did not in this case. I'm sure they will take the next ten sellers money as usual.
Actually the post office or 2 post offices shipped it back from Russia to the states for free . Do you think the seller should go to the post office and give them money? Then pop over to Russia and give them a few rubles for their trouble as well? >>
Ebay made him whole when they paid for the coins. As for whether or not Ebay "usually steals the seller's money" or not is irrelevant to the fact that in this case Ebay is currently the rightful owner of either the coins or the money paid for the coins. How is it not stealing if the money or the coins are not returned to Ebay?
Hypothetical...
A dealer in New Jersey buys a 10K coin from me which I ship. USPS "loses" the package. My insurance carrier promptly pays me 10K. A year later USPS finds the package and finally delivers it. The dealer happily sends me a check for the 10K. Are you saying that the extra 10 grand is just found money? No, the money needs to be paid back to my insurance carrier--regardless of whether or not I believe my insurance premiums are exorbitant or that the insurance company might not pay someone else's claim.
The buyer, having already played his hand has been refunded so I don't owe him anything and frankly don't want further problems. Ebay stepped in and made their decision, yay for them as they also refunded me when they took care of the buyer.
I would block the buyer and try to sell the coins somewhere where there is not a problem with indemnity. I would be smiling feeling fortunate I dodged a bullet in getting screwed. I might even send the buyer a brochure for the FUN show as that may be more comfortable than Siberia in January.