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Have you ever had dealer(s) turn down your coin, only to sell it for much more soon thereafter?
opportunity
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I sure have. I can't tell you the number of times I've had multiple dealers give me the old "I'll pass, thanks" or the old "I have nowhere to go with it." Then almost immediately sell it for significantly more. I'm starting to think it's because many dealers try to spread their dealings to everything numismatic and are weaker in knowledge in any given area.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
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<< <i>I sure have. I can't tell you the number of times I've had multiple dealers give me the old "I'll pass, thanks" or the old "I have nowhere to go with it." Then almost immediately sell it for significantly more. I'm starting to think it's because many dealers try to spread their dealings to everything numismatic and are weaker in knowledge in any given area. >>
Very difficult to be an expert in all areas of numismatics. You are dealing with every type, date, mintmark, variety, grade etc.
It could drive the occasional dealer to drink.
<< <i>I sure have. I can't tell you the number of times I've had multiple dealers give me the old "I'll pass, thanks" or the old "I have nowhere to go with it." Then almost immediately sell it for significantly more. I'm starting to think it's because many dealers try to spread their dealings to everything numismatic and are weaker in knowledge in any given area. >>
Um ... how does a dealer pass on your coin and then sell it for significantly more?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>Um ... how does a dealer pass on your coin and then sell it for significantly more? >>
I think he's saying that he offered a coin to a dealer who turned it down, and then ended up selling the coin himself for significantly more immediately after. I had this exact scenario happened to me back in July. I picked a beautiful 1922 weak D that came back from the host as a MS62BN. I had the coin listed in a couple of places, but only a couple of low ball offers came in so I decided to take it to a very trust dealer. He didn't specialize in the minor varieties, and ultimately passed. I bought a few things for myself, and made my way home. Then my phone buzzed, and I got an offer right at list. I was happy.
<< <i>Yup I ask some dealers if they wanted to buy a 1960-D/D DDO Sm over Lg Lincoln Cent in MS66RD some passed and some low balled me like $20 so I put it in auction and got $1200 for it.
Sweet satisfaction!!
I have one of those in 64RD
however the BM owner would not accept them because I had a 25 dollar reserve on them, so I sent them
to Teletrade and had PCGS grade them, they both were graded FS and TOP POPS at the time, and instead
of accepting 25 bucks which I would have been happy with, Teletrade sent me a check for $ 3900.00
I've thanked that BM dealer many times before he went out of business.
Steve
<< <i>Crappy dealers. There is no excuse for not having the condition census of all 6,000 Breen varieties in their head at all times. >>
Though, when I start thinking about others or how or why they pass up opportunity, I get off track with what I'm doing: capitalizing on opportunities.
And that usually happens for different reasons
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Crappy dealers. There is no excuse for not having the condition census of all 6,000 Breen varieties in their head at all times. Furthermore, if they don't personally know the best buyers for every single one of those coins, and have all their cell phone numbers memorized, they are idiots. If they could just learn these A-B-Cs the coin market would be so much more efficient. >>
Yes, they should spend more time here so they would know it all, like some of the posers here.
Was that a misspelling? I think not.
<< <i>Crappy dealers. There is no excuse for not having the condition census of all 6,000 Breen varieties in their head at all times. Furthermore, if they don't personally know the best buyers for every single one of those coins, and have all their cell phone numbers memorized, they are idiots. If they could just learn these A-B-Cs the coin market would be so much more efficient. >>
Truer than not. Most don't even own a Breen book. And most that I have known are pretty lazy when it comes to really putting in the work. And why should they when they can routinely buy at 20c to 60c on the dollar for pretty worthwhile material. My own local shop was able to pick up 4 rare/better date US gold coins in choice unc condition. They paid the rather uninformed person about 30c on the dollar .....or about $25K. They had owned them for decades as part of a family legacy pass down from time of issue. Once they all graded out as MS64 they were "officially" worth about $80K-$100K. It didn't take a Breen book, phone numbers, or anything but a quick reference to CDN 60/62 pricing to determine what they were going to pay for them. I've been on both sides of this fence over the past 40 years and can pretty much confirm that most B&M dealers are crappy when it comes to buying. The ABC's are pretty simple....and don't favor the uninformed.
For the past 25 years I've pretty much known where to go to get a solid price for anything I was looking to sell. I don't waste my time with the ABC's dealers above. The dozen or so dealers I've routinely used over the past 10-30 years continue to get my business. Interesting too that NONE of them are B&M's. I can always get better pricing for material by going to the bourse floor, auctions, or national retailers. The few times I've tried to toss a bone to my local shops they have typically given me the line's stated by the OP....lol. You can't say that I didn't try. I remember one time I practically had to beg a local shop to "take off my hands" some beautifully toned XF/AU bust half dimes at CDN bid...and me making $10 per coin in the process....lol. But, that was pretty much the last time I ever bothered....that was around 2002. I found out a year later that those same half dimes would have fetched 50% more if brought to the BST. And that dealer still made me feel like I was ripping them off making $10/coin....lol. I don't think for a second I bought those off some poor little old lady. In fact I bought them from a dealer and paid every cent of their asking price. I think that guy was an ANA governor at the time.
<< <i>Many times got more than offered on BST. >>
That's almost a sure thing.
The deals made were not huge, but the relationships began warm and ended friendly.
Re:
" I'm starting to think it's because many dealers try to spread their dealings to everything numismatic and are weaker in knowledge in any given area."
Maybe 6 or 7 years ago, Chris Napolitano and I paid a bit over $11,000 for an 1911 10c PCGS PR68 NGC out of a Superior sale out with a full 1c-$20 proof set in NGC fatties. . . .
Broken out, it graded PR68CAM a few days later at Long Beach, and then graded the first PR69 at the next NGC Trade and Grade. The underbidder, head of a major retail company, wrote a check for $35,000 that day. . . .
The coin is in the Heritage archives. It's very pretty.
But an upgrade may not count.
I liked the $25 bid-board story myself . .
<< <i>Not a turn down, but a low ball. Dealer offered me $3350 for a NGC AU55 Clark & Gruber 1861 2 1/2 Colorado gold piece. Two weeks later, took it to a local coin show, sold it for 7K. >>
A local shop near me had a what appeared to be a fake $5 C&G walk into the shop one day. They only wanted to risk a few hundred dollars on buying it. Everyone up to this point had told the seller it was probably fake. It was in AU condition and otherwise nice looking. They called in a friend of mine to check it out that same day and he thought it could be real. The owner was almost ready to dump it for the low ball offer. My friend did the research, got it authenticated and slabbed out as PCGS AU55, and even located a "top" buyer for the coin (an offer of around $20-22K). After investing much effort, expenses in grading and research, he got $0 for his efforts. The owner took the coin home and never came back again. This same shop had a reputation for low balling some potentially great coins. Once a set of matte proof $2-1/2 Indians walked in the door and the offer was the same price as BU's or around $250/coin. Needless to say that didn't result in a transaction.....lol. This same shop also routinely would accept offers from other dealers or collectors and then offer them for more to the next person that showed up. That happened to me once. The guy that ended up with "my coins" showed them to me at the next show thinking he had a "fresh" deal. Yup....you gotta know your ABC's.
I took a PCGS Seated Liberty $1 into the local shop that I wanted $600 for and the owner offered me $500, but said I should sell it on eBay.
I listed it for $625 BIN with best offer and got an offer for $500, which I didn't accept because with the eBay and PayPal fees I could get more money in my pocket from the dealer.
So I went back to sell it in the shop and told him my story, and his price dropped to $400 because he said there was no market for it since it didn't sell on eBay.
<< <i> My friend did the research, got it authenticated and slabbed out as PCGS AU55, and even located a "top" buyer for the coin (an offer of around $20-22K). >>
Three years ago, PCGS price guide AU55 G&G $2.5 1861 was $7.5K, now I see it's up to $9.5K.
link
$20 -22K for a PCGS AU55 C&G 1861 $2.5 is quite ambitious.
<< <i>
<< <i> My friend did the research, got it authenticated and slabbed out as PCGS AU55, and even located a "top" buyer for the coin (an offer of around $20-22K). >>
Three years ago, PCGS price guide AU55 G&G $2.5 1861 was $7.5K, now I see it's up to $9.5K.
link
$20 -22K for a PCGS AU55 C&G 1861 $2.5 is quite ambitious. >>
You're talking about a $2-1/2 and the coin I had mentioned was a $5. The offer of >$20K was from Heritage. They wouldn't have made the offer if there wasn't a decent profit in it for them.
<< <i>I would think it would be quite common, since a dealer is going to pay less than a collector would in order to stay in business.
I took a PCGS Seated Liberty $1 into the local shop that I wanted $600 for and the owner offered me $500, but said I should sell it on eBay.
I listed it for $625 BIN with best offer and got an offer for $500, which I didn't accept because with the eBay and PayPal fees I could get more money in my pocket from the dealer.
So I went back to sell it in the shop and told him my story, and his price dropped to $400 because he said there was no market for it since it didn't sell on eBay.
Can't blame the dealer. If he bought it from you at $400 and took a $500 offer on Ebay, he would have incurred about $50 in costs and would have earned only $50.
<< <i>Yes I have as I think most dealers are thieves when it comes to telling the truth. They will tell you it is a AU and then once they get it they sell it for a 62. >>
This is why third party grading became extremely popular with collectors. In the era where coins were all raw, most dealers would under grade your coins when buying them and then over grade them when selling them. I remember when PCGS and NGC first started grading and slabbing coins. I went to several coin shows looking for nice slider AU58 US gold coins and I couldn't find any. A few dealers told me that several dealers were buying them and cracking them out to sell them as choice BU coins to collectors. At that point I decided to only buy expense coins that were already slabbed by one of the top grading services.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Yes I have as I think most dealers are thieves when it comes to telling the truth. They will tell you it is a AU and then once they get it they sell it for a 62. >>
WOW. That's a pretty low view of MOST dealers. It makes me feel out of place, like the roofing business did.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> My friend did the research, got it authenticated and slabbed out as PCGS AU55, and even located a "top" buyer for the coin (an offer of around $20-22K). >>
Three years ago, PCGS price guide AU55 G&G $2.5 1861 was $7.5K, now I see it's up to $9.5K.
link
$20 -22K for a PCGS AU55 C&G 1861 $2.5 is quite ambitious. >>
You're talking about a $2-1/2 and the coin I had mentioned was a $5. The offer of >$20K was from Heritage. They wouldn't have made the offer if there wasn't a decent profit in it for them. >>
Yepper, my mistake.
Many collectors offer unusual varieties or non generic coins that are very
rare, but don't realize that finding a buyer might be very tough as well
So asking "collector money" for these probably will be greeted with a "pass"
from most dealers.
<< <i>Yes I have as I think most dealers are thieves when it comes to telling the truth. They will tell you it is a AU and then once they get it they sell it for a 62. >>
That is a pretty obtuse point of view.
Latin American Collection
I had an item, they said they couldn't buy it outright but would consign it.. I gave it to them, it sat for a year then I took it back and within a week sold it for more than what I told them was the minimum and the minimum included a 20% split for them. Still, it wasn't their fault, the fact that it sat on their shelf for a year showed me that they truly had no buyer for it. I offered it to someone that dealt with that type of material and got a better offer at 25% above the minimum (that included 20% for the dealer) right away.
It's no surprise, I remember a dealer that wouldn't pay more than the RB price which listed up to MS65 regardless of if a coin was an MS70. I had talked to them and they explained that they never had a customer ask for anything graded above the grades in the RB. I can't blame them for not paying more and that dealer did not want to do any online sales.
Another thought: if one dumps a coin for a lowball offer, only to see it sell for big money, it's your fault, period. I have done it, and I accept the blame.
<< <i>Yup I ask some dealers if they wanted to buy a 1960-D/D DDO Sm over Lg Lincoln Cent in MS66RD some passed and some low balled me like $20 so I put it in auction and got $1200 for it.
way coool.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/