Here is where we are so far. I sent him my request for infor yesterday morning. Got a reply from him that I didnt much appreciate and told him again what I needed and why. So far no reply.
With a case such as this I do have to act defensively. You have not given me any information about what coin/cert number/PCGS information. I am very familiar with how PCGS operates. Sorry if I have come across as rude, but there are certain things I need to know in order to proceed
Sent Date: Dec-29-14 09:59:01 PST
Jason,
I am a bit concerned with your response. Is it that you don't believe me or something? I am questioning the holder, not the coin, so why are you asking for coin pictures in such an irritating way "front/back/sides"? You yourself did not even do that in your original listing, so why you ask me for that? We are talking about a small amount of money. Originally I was thinking of supplying you with what I have, now after seeing this email, I am afraid no matter what I supply, you will always find another reason come back to say no. I sensed you are looking for a way to avoid a problem, not resolve a problem. I hope my six sense is wrong.
I am not sure whether you are familiar with how PCGS operates. They don't communicate order details via emails. When they determine a PCGS holder is a counterfeit, they will engrave the holder as "VOID" or "Counterfeit". The order is not under your name, they will not share anything with you, period.
I suggest that you do not take this simple case in such as defensive way. Please have an open mind and try to live up with your "Top Rated" seller status by gracefully resolving the matter.
That's my two cents for your to consider.
-*
Sent Date: Dec-29-14 09:14:33 PST
Dear*
There are a few things I am going to need before proceeding with this. PCGS Cert Number(Coin I sent you), images front/back/sides. Copy of PCGS email so that I can verify with them.
Sent Date: Dec-26-14 22:59:35 PST
Hello Jason, I am sure you don't remember me. I bought a coin from you back in June, the item number is 121191962089, I paid 375 for it. I now have a problem. Recently I sent this coin, among others to PCGS for a holder check. PCGS said the coin you sold me has a questionable holder, they think it is a counterfeit holder. I know the sale took place back in June and it has been a while, but this was not discovered until recently. I am in shock and disbelieve, please let me know how would you like to handle this. Thank you.
I would have asked for the exact same information if it means anything. Something seems odd here. If I were in the other shoe I would be extremely forthcoming with pictures/emails/submission numbers ect. It seems like this person's idea of "resolution" is just getting money back without providing anything more than the eBay listing number. Good luck!
The Buyer "questions the holder" sends it to PCGS for verification. PCGS is either going to say legit or not. There is no gray area there.
If it was returned to him as counterfeit taking a picture with PCGS's marking it as such should be the end of it. Once you view the picture you should know f it was a coin you sold.
Anything less that a photo (or the coin itself) proving you sold it and it's counterfeit, it's time to tell him to take a hike.
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
It sounds like he is expecting you to refund his money just on his say so that the holder is not authentic. Seems like he didn't offer to return the item. What does the cert lookup say when PCGS earmarks a slab as void or counterfeit?
Ask him if he really thinks that someone is going to refund his money with no evidence other than his say so. Sad to say with eBay's mentality that he could file a SNAD claim and win.
If he does not provide the cert number, then there is not much you can do. I say that because if PCGS felt the holder was questionable/invalid then the cert number would no longer be valid and this would show on a cert number search.
You do keep records of cert numbers for coins you sell right?
Also, by the supposed buyer NOT providing you with even the most basic of information such as coin denomination and instead wording his reply in a threatenoing manner, I'd really have to think about whether or not I'd even continue communication with this person.
How many feedback to this individual have and what does the feedback reflect?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Interesting. Does PCGS think it is a questionable holder or a counterfeit holder? Seems to me that PCGS would be definitive one way or another. And if PCGS was sent a piece for a "holder check", I would think that they would keep any counterfeit holders.
Seems fishy to me, but I am keeping an open mind as sometimes people have a hard time stating facts clearly when under stress.
Keep us posted as we will all learn from this experience. >>
This claim that PCGS did not definitively identify their own holder is very suspicious. Sounds like he just got cold feet and concocted a story to back out.
The "buyer" has 40 feedback. All from other coin sellers.
As far as keeping track of items/slabs sold its a bit tough, typically 25-50 sales a day. We do keep the paper records and I have requested the paperwork from our book keeper.
Be clear saying that you feel the return period is over but if you were convinced that it's really the same coin/holder that you sold and that PCGS deemed it fake then you would follow up but be clear with what you need to proceed.
Maybe:
A copy of what PCGS sent saying the holder was fake. (so you can verify with them) A copy of the buyers receipt from you. The coin that you sold in the slab returned.
Be clear saying that you feel the return period is over but if you were convinced that it's really the same coin/holder that you sold and that PCGS deemed it fake then you would follow up but be clear with what you need to proceed.
Maybe:
A copy of what PCGS sent saying the holder was fake. (so you can verify with them) A copy of the buyers receipt from you. The coin that you sold in the slab returned. >>
All of this sounds completely "reasonable".
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Here is where we are so far. I sent him my request for infor yesterday morning. Got a reply from him that I didnt much appreciate and told him again what I needed and why. So far no reply.
With a case such as this I do have to act defensively. You have not given me any information about what coin/cert number/PCGS information. I am very familiar with how PCGS operates. Sorry if I have come across as rude, but there are certain things I need to know in order to proceed
Sent Date: Dec-29-14 09:59:01 PST
Jason,
I am a bit concerned with your response. Is it that you don't believe me or something? I am questioning the holder, not the coin, so why are you asking for coin pictures in such an irritating way "front/back/sides"? You yourself did not even do that in your original listing, so why you ask me for that? We are talking about a small amount of money. Originally I was thinking of supplying you with what I have, now after seeing this email, I am afraid no matter what I supply, you will always find another reason come back to say no. I sensed you are looking for a way to avoid a problem, not resolve a problem. I hope my six sense is wrong.
I am not sure whether you are familiar with how PCGS operates. They don't communicate order details via emails. When they determine a PCGS holder is a counterfeit, they will engrave the holder as "VOID" or "Counterfeit". The order is not under your name, they will not share anything with you, period.
I suggest that you do not take this simple case in such as defensive way. Please have an open mind and try to live up with your "Top Rated" seller status by gracefully resolving the matter.
That's my two cents for your to consider.
-*
Sent Date: Dec-29-14 09:14:33 PST
Dear*
There are a few things I am going to need before proceeding with this. PCGS Cert Number(Coin I sent you), images front/back/sides. Copy of PCGS email so that I can verify with them.
Sent Date: Dec-26-14 22:59:35 PST
Hello Jason, I am sure you don't remember me. I bought a coin from you back in June, the item number is 121191962089, I paid 375 for it. I now have a problem. Recently I sent this coin, among others to PCGS for a holder check. PCGS said the coin you sold me has a questionable holder, they think it is a counterfeit holder. I know the sale took place back in June and it has been a while, but this was not discovered until recently. I am in shock and disbelieve, please let me know how would you like to handle this. Thank you. >>
So he wants you to "resolve the problem", but gets huffy when you ask for the info needed to resolve the problem? Sorry but no proof, no refund. Bottom Line.
Definitely a scam. An honest buyer would have no problem whatsoever responding to your very reasonable request for additional info. Of course, like most dishonest people, he tries to make you out to be the unreasonable one when it is he who is acting like a tool. He has no info or proof from PCGS so that is why he is acting that way. You can also report him to ebay for his not so subtle feedback extortion threat in that last email response of his. In fact, you might want to consider that to get out in front of this extortion and to alert ebay about this clown.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Scam. His wording is too much like someone playing word games to get things their way without checking the check boxes.
Waited long enough that the auction is out of the ebay system for you.
Trying to throw out things about PCGS and "this and other coins for a holder check".....sounds too much like he has problems/is a problem and know what he is doing (except scamming).
I'd block the ID and not sell under my ID for a month or two (just in case). If a scammer smells blood, they will circle for more.
<< <i> In fact, you might want to consider that to get out in front of this extortion and to alert ebay about this clown. >>
Yes, do this and protect yourself. Be proactive so Ebay/Paypal does not freeze your funds. If he is doing this or has done this to other sellers the pattern will show to Ebay.
<< <i>does PCGS engrave anything on slabs as this guy claims ? out the D-BAG please ! >>
Valid question and one I wonder as well. If it were me, I would likely call Customer Service and/or PM DW and ask him straight out what PCGS does in an instance they believe it is a fake holder.....I would also give him a very concise version of the story so he knew why I was asking....imagine a scammer being told that you have brought the issue to the attention of the President of PCGS and found out (if it is true) that what he stated is 100% incorrect.......
<< <i>Just curious how many here would take a return or pay for a reholder if the holder [but not necessarily the coin] was indeed fake. >>
Is your premise including that you know for 100% certainty that everything about the coin/holder is as-is for when you sold it? Ie.....he didn't replace anything after you sold it to him? That's what I would be more worried about.
<< <i>Just curious how many here would take a return or pay for a reholder if the holder [but not necessarily the coin] was indeed fake. >>
If PCGS verifies that the holder is indeed fake and I get the coin back in that holder so I can confirm that it is the exact same item I sent out x months earlier than yes, I would have no problem to give a full refund and most likely some kind of store discount for a future purchase for his hassle.
And, this thread has reminded me why it is so important to keep records and photographs.
Dennis
PS Jason, you might be able to still pull up pictures through worthpoint.com. It's a hit or miss, but you never know;
You can look for the item number in your eBay invoices, at least you can see the item and the listing, even without pics. There is the selling price and the buyer too.
The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
<< <i>Just curious how many here would take a return or pay for a reholder if the holder [but not necessarily the coin] was indeed fake. >>
Is your premise including that you know for 100% certainty that everything about the coin/holder is as-is for when you sold it? Ie.....he didn't replace anything after you sold it to him? That's what I would be more worried about. >>
I would think that you'd want to or be able to confirm that the item at issue is as sold by you. If not then all bets are off and the buyer IMO is SOL.
Invite the "player" here. Very few can B.S. the board , once we get "both sides". And the funny thing is, a lot of this isn't funny to those of us who are affected by lies and fraud, or the attempted fraud w/ lies. I could name one, who has been screwing people on ebay or the vendors' accounts he cons into using. And through others' accounts for a long time, he operates. He even uses another fellows # on coin net ….. He can't get his own EBAY I.D. even though he's rich and has millions of dollars worth of coins and a coin shop, etc…. He's a ________ crook, and gets away with petty _ _ _ _, a lot of times. But if I out him, I end up in court and who can buy judges or lawyers ? Not me.
Anyway ,invite that person to the boards to take up his fight and we can see who's wrong or right.
Comments
<< <i>what's happening? >>
+1
Rob
Successful Trades with: Coincast, MICHAELDIXON
Successful Purchases from: Manorcourtman, Meltdown
With a case such as this I do have to act defensively. You have not given me any information about what coin/cert number/PCGS information. I am very familiar with how PCGS operates. Sorry if I have come across as rude, but there are certain things I need to know in order to proceed
Sent Date: Dec-29-14 09:59:01 PST
Jason,
I am a bit concerned with your response. Is it that you don't believe me or something? I am questioning the holder, not the coin, so why are you asking for coin pictures in such an irritating way "front/back/sides"? You yourself did not even do that in your original listing, so why you ask me for that? We are talking about a small amount of money. Originally I was thinking of supplying you with what I have, now after seeing this email, I am afraid no matter what I supply, you will always find another reason come back to say no. I sensed you are looking for a way to avoid a problem, not resolve a problem. I hope my six sense is wrong.
I am not sure whether you are familiar with how PCGS operates. They don't communicate order details via emails. When they determine a PCGS holder is a counterfeit, they will engrave the holder as "VOID" or "Counterfeit". The order is not under your name, they will not share anything with you, period.
I suggest that you do not take this simple case in such as defensive way. Please have an open mind and try to live up with your "Top Rated" seller status by gracefully resolving the matter.
That's my two cents for your to consider.
-*
Sent Date: Dec-29-14 09:14:33 PST
Dear*
There are a few things I am going to need before proceeding with this. PCGS Cert Number(Coin I sent you), images front/back/sides. Copy of PCGS email so that I can verify with them.
Sent Date: Dec-26-14 22:59:35 PST
Hello Jason, I am sure you don't remember me. I bought a coin from you back in June, the item number is 121191962089, I paid 375 for it. I now have a problem. Recently I sent this coin, among others to PCGS for a holder check. PCGS said the coin you sold me has a questionable holder, they think it is a counterfeit holder. I know the sale took place back in June and it has been a while, but this was not discovered until recently. I am in shock and disbelieve, please let me know how would you like to handle this. Thank you.
Only questioning?
Even more unusual: not the coin
It's possible the coin is real, but one would still question why it's in a particular fake holder at a particular real price.
Stay the course and get the info requested.
The Buyer "questions the holder" sends it to PCGS for verification. PCGS is either going to say legit or not. There is no gray area there.
If it was returned to him as counterfeit taking a picture with PCGS's marking it as such should be the end of it. Once you view the picture you should know f it was a coin you sold.
Anything less that a photo (or the coin itself) proving you sold it and it's counterfeit, it's time to tell him to take a hike.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Ask him if he really thinks that someone is going to refund his money with no evidence other than his say so. Sad to say with eBay's mentality that he could file a SNAD claim and win.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
You do keep records of cert numbers for coins you sell right?
Also, by the supposed buyer NOT providing you with even the most basic of information such as coin denomination and instead wording his reply in a threatenoing manner, I'd really have to think about whether or not I'd even continue communication with this person.
How many feedback to this individual have and what does the feedback reflect?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Interesting.
Does PCGS think it is a questionable holder or a counterfeit holder? Seems to me that PCGS would be definitive one way or another. And if PCGS was sent a piece for a "holder check", I would think that they would keep any counterfeit holders.
Seems fishy to me, but I am keeping an open mind as sometimes people have a hard time stating facts clearly when under stress.
Keep us posted as we will all learn from this experience. >>
This claim that PCGS did not definitively identify their own holder is very suspicious. Sounds like he just got cold feet and concocted a story to back out.
As far as keeping track of items/slabs sold its a bit tough, typically 25-50 sales a day. We do keep the paper records and I have requested the paperwork from our book keeper.
Be clear saying that you feel the return period is over but if you were convinced that it's really the same coin/holder that you sold and that PCGS deemed it fake then you would follow up but be clear with what you need to proceed.
Maybe:
A copy of what PCGS sent saying the holder was fake. (so you can verify with them)
A copy of the buyers receipt from you.
The coin that you sold in the slab returned.
<< <i>I think it's a scam.
Be clear saying that you feel the return period is over but if you were convinced that it's really the same coin/holder that you sold and that PCGS deemed it fake then you would follow up but be clear with what you need to proceed.
Maybe:
A copy of what PCGS sent saying the holder was fake. (so you can verify with them)
A copy of the buyers receipt from you.
The coin that you sold in the slab returned. >>
All of this sounds completely "reasonable".
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Here is where we are so far. I sent him my request for infor yesterday morning. Got a reply from him that I didnt much appreciate and told him again what I needed and why. So far no reply.
With a case such as this I do have to act defensively. You have not given me any information about what coin/cert number/PCGS information. I am very familiar with how PCGS operates. Sorry if I have come across as rude, but there are certain things I need to know in order to proceed
Sent Date: Dec-29-14 09:59:01 PST
Jason,
I am a bit concerned with your response. Is it that you don't believe me or something? I am questioning the holder, not the coin, so why are you asking for coin pictures in such an irritating way "front/back/sides"? You yourself did not even do that in your original listing, so why you ask me for that? We are talking about a small amount of money. Originally I was thinking of supplying you with what I have, now after seeing this email, I am afraid no matter what I supply, you will always find another reason come back to say no. I sensed you are looking for a way to avoid a problem, not resolve a problem. I hope my six sense is wrong.
I am not sure whether you are familiar with how PCGS operates. They don't communicate order details via emails. When they determine a PCGS holder is a counterfeit, they will engrave the holder as "VOID" or "Counterfeit". The order is not under your name, they will not share anything with you, period.
I suggest that you do not take this simple case in such as defensive way. Please have an open mind and try to live up with your "Top Rated" seller status by gracefully resolving the matter.
That's my two cents for your to consider.
-*
Sent Date: Dec-29-14 09:14:33 PST
Dear*
There are a few things I am going to need before proceeding with this. PCGS Cert Number(Coin I sent you), images front/back/sides. Copy of PCGS email so that I can verify with them.
Sent Date: Dec-26-14 22:59:35 PST
Hello Jason, I am sure you don't remember me. I bought a coin from you back in June, the item number is 121191962089, I paid 375 for it. I now have a problem. Recently I sent this coin, among others to PCGS for a holder check. PCGS said the coin you sold me has a questionable holder, they think it is a counterfeit holder. I know the sale took place back in June and it has been a while, but this was not discovered until recently. I am in shock and disbelieve, please let me know how would you like to handle this. Thank you. >>
So he wants you to "resolve the problem", but gets huffy when you ask for the info needed to resolve the problem? Sorry but no proof, no refund. Bottom Line.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
His wording is too much like someone playing word games to get things their way without checking the check boxes.
Waited long enough that the auction is out of the ebay system for you.
Trying to throw out things about PCGS and "this and other coins for a holder check".....sounds too much like he has problems/is a problem and know what he is doing (except scamming).
I'd block the ID and not sell under my ID for a month or two (just in case). If a scammer smells blood, they will circle for more.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i> In fact, you might want to consider that to get out in front of this extortion and to alert ebay about this clown. >>
Yes, do this and protect yourself. Be proactive so Ebay/Paypal does not freeze your funds. If he is doing this or has done this to other sellers the pattern will show to Ebay.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
<< <i>does PCGS engrave anything on slabs as this guy claims ? out the D-BAG please ! >>
Valid question and one I wonder as well. If it were me, I would likely call Customer Service and/or PM DW and ask him straight out what PCGS does in an instance they believe it is a fake holder.....I would also give him a very concise version of the story so he knew why I was asking....imagine a scammer being told that you have brought the issue to the attention of the President of PCGS and found out (if it is true) that what he stated is 100% incorrect.......
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Just curious how many here would take a return or pay for a reholder if the holder [but not necessarily the coin] was indeed fake. >>
Is your premise including that you know for 100% certainty that everything about the coin/holder is as-is for when you sold it? Ie.....he didn't replace anything after you sold it to him?
That's what I would be more worried about.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Just curious how many here would take a return or pay for a reholder if the holder [but not necessarily the coin] was indeed fake. >>
If PCGS verifies that the holder is indeed fake and I get the coin back in that holder so I can confirm that it is the exact same item I sent out x months earlier than yes, I would have no problem to give a full refund and most likely some kind of store discount for a future purchase for his hassle.
And, this thread has reminded me why it is so important to keep records and photographs.
Dennis
PS Jason, you might be able to still pull up pictures through worthpoint.com. It's a hit or miss, but you never know;
Like VOC Numismatics on facebook
There is the selling price and the buyer too.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just curious how many here would take a return or pay for a reholder if the holder [but not necessarily the coin] was indeed fake. >>
Is your premise including that you know for 100% certainty that everything about the coin/holder is as-is for when you sold it? Ie.....he didn't replace anything after you sold it to him?
That's what I would be more worried about. >>
I would think that you'd want to or be able to confirm that the item at issue is as sold by you. If not then all bets are off and the buyer IMO is SOL.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
He can't get his own EBAY I.D. even though he's rich and has millions of dollars worth of coins and a coin shop, etc…. He's a ________ crook, and gets away with petty _ _ _ _, a lot of times. But if I out him, I end up in court and who can buy judges or lawyers ? Not me.
Anyway ,invite that person to the boards to take up his fight and we can see who's wrong or right.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
You have asked him for information. If you do not receive it, then just forget about it.