1901-S Barber 25 - PCGS VF25 CAC - Toughie
Dave99B
Posts: 8,710 ✭✭✭✭✭
Not mine; but I must say .... I like this one. Wow.....
This cupcake is in the 2015 FUN Heritage Signature Auction. Not sure I've seen this one before.
Any guesses on what it will take? North of $22,500?
Dave
This cupcake is in the 2015 FUN Heritage Signature Auction. Not sure I've seen this one before.
Any guesses on what it will take? North of $22,500?
Dave
Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
0
Comments
Schwing! Perfect grade, perfect eye appeal. Fantastic.
bob
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
I tried to buy this coin from him 2 years ago for around 26k, and he turned me down flat.
-Steve
<< <i>It better bring more than that, because I know who consigned this: trust me he is expecting a lot more, but as vern stated, this market is questionably soft on most things.
I tried to buy this coin from him 2 years ago for around 26k, and he turned me down flat. >>
Interesting...I guess he will buy it back if it doesn't sell for what he wants....or will he? My memory is a little foggy....doesn't he want 30K for it? It is a nice coin. I think he should have taken you up on your offer!
Well, just Love coins, period.
BHNC #203
He wanted 29K, I would have still bought it when he sold his registry, but I had already found a pcgs 53 which I got cac'd in the meantime
Sure glad last week's bust quarter crowd isn't around today.
-Paul
Dave
Dave
<< <i>It better bring more than that, because I know who consigned this: trust me he is expecting a lot more, but as vern stated, this market is questionably soft on most things.
I tried to buy this coin from him 2 years ago for around 26k, and he turned me down flat.
Wow....sold for only $18,800, with fees. >>
LOL - what's the old saying? Bulls make money, and bears make money, but hogs get slaughtered.....
Latin American Collection
<< <i>Wow....sold for only $18,800, with fees.
Dave >>
That would either support the coin being less than completely problem free/original....or the market for key dates is a lot weaker than many thought...or a combination of both. The numerous black spots on the obverse certainly don't add to the eye appeal. The scattered deep crust in the lettering sort of suggests toning has been removed at least once. I've mentioned numerous times in the past that a significant % of the key date price rises of the 2002-2008 period were dealers flipping things among themselves knowing that another key date speculator/investor or collector would eventually buy it. While waiting for them to show up they passed these coins back and forth pushing up prices. As long as there's money coming into the market this works. Key dates had a high money velocity and it was a no risk game....until after the 2008 summer ANA.
Dave
It looks like a very respectable example of coin that's nearly impossible to find.
Perhaps the lower price indicates a less than enthusiastic interest in the Barber quarter series. But even if, as some say, the coin lacks eye-appeal, beggars can't be choosers. It is legitimately rare in this grade, and I'm surprised it didn't go much higher.
Isn't this the kind of coin that Barber quarter collectors dream about, as they reluctantly hold on to their usual AG-VG examples? If I had a nearly complete set of problem-free Barber quarters in the FINE to XF range, only missing the 01-S, I would pay through the roof for this coin. That is, if I could afford to do so.
Another thought; maybe buyers were discouraged, and didn't even bother bidding on this coin, assuming they'd never come close to getting it.
In that condition it is a rare find indeed,it looks totally original and not messed with at all.
To me it would seem to be a "tweener" coin hence the lower auction price.
I have that mentality with some of the other semi-keys,if it has the full headband and an original overall look I will pay a premium for those coins,this coin didn't seem to fall in that category.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have that coin.
Just my observation and 2 cents
Rob
KK,
The images were terrible. Those who have seen the coin in hand - ie:
Vern and Doug have nothing but the highest compliments about this
coin, ex: Walt Kennedy.
As Dave99B mentioned, someone got a good deal. High end coins seem
to have softened. Maybe I will be able to get the big three one of these days.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
As to the other barberites, do you recalled what they (& members of cu) said about my NGC AU 50?
Anyone who is even considering buying a coin like this - $15-$30k range who would bid/buy from an auction with no return privilege, had better do so in person - or at the very least - have a trusted friend/rep there for them looking at the coin in hand. If someone buys a coin of this value without spending a few hundred to attend personally or pay a fee to a broker, with all due respect has to have their head examined.
I agree the market for Barber material is soft .. I happen to have 20 AU/MS Quarters in the Heritage FUN auction - many are going very strongly - just look at the 1897-O in PC-55 at $1000 + BP or the 1896-O in AU58 at $950 + BP (prices may be higher this was as of last night) .. and even less scarce dates like the 1904-O in PC-55 is at $460 + BP .. In fact every single one of the 20, except for 2 are higher than anticipated .. Only one has closed so far, the 1901-O in PC-63 hammering at $2200 - that is SOFT IMO -- a very original coin - too original for mos although very poorly struck which is likely the reason it sold so soft .. everything else is at or above my expectations and current market trends. Maybe I got lucky ... I think the AU55/58 market is almost as strong as it has been the past 3-4 years . it definitely is for better/semi-key dates - specifically in PCGS AU55/58 holders (doesn't apply to my mentality when buying - I am just telling you the pack mentality and the facts of today's brainwash...oops ..excuse me .. collector)
Oh - And the 1901-S qtr. in VF is far from common ...... This is a true rare coin in the mid grades and a very scarce coin in mint state .. It is abundant in AG/G
There are a handful of problem free 1901-S qtrs in any grade of F-12 through AU-58 and probably less than 5 in total existence that are attractive and wholesome .. there are boatloads of 01-S Quarters in Fair2-VG10 - and those are all overrated and overpriced .. Not so much in Fine-AU
And Walt - of you're reading, I truly hope you were able to buy that coin back
edit: spelling
<< <i>
LOL - what's the old saying? Bulls make money, and bears make money, but hogs get slaughtered..... >>
I believe the saying goes: "Pigs get fat and Hogs get slaughtered!"
<< <i>Oh - And the 1901-S qtr. in VF is far from common ...... This is a true rare coin in the mid grades and a very scarce coin in mint state .. It is abundant in AG/G
There are a handful of problem free 1901-S qtrs in any grade of F-12 through AU-58 and probably less than 5 in total existence that are attractive and wholesome .. there are boatloads of 01-S Quarters in Fair2-VG10 - and those are all overrated and overpriced >>
Overrated, really?
So what should a Barber quarter collector of modest means pay for "lowly" ag 1901-s? If one considers the exhorbitant price for anything f12 and higher, an ag seems relatively reasonable.
How many Barber collectors can even come close to affording a higher grade 1901-s Barber quarter? Maybe the lower grades are "overpriced", but what would you advise a date/mm collector to do, wait until he's 95 years old before he aquires the higher grade 01s? Personally, my preference for Barber coinage is f12 and higher, but most collectors cannot afford the higher grades? Should the cash-strapped collector wait for the overpriced 1901-s to come way down in price? Maybe they should, but who knows how long that will take. The Barber Quarter series is one that I avoid for the above-mentioned reasons. Too frustrating, too expensive, and just not worth the trouble. Obviously, others who are passionate about the series will feel differently, but for me, the 1901s stopper is a real kill-joy.
Time to buy in a soft market
BHNC #203
Let me be clear as crystal this time
The 1901-S qtr in AG-VG is OVERPRICED; overpriced means the coin is OVER-RATED in my world
it is too available to warrant $2500-$5000 prices in those grades
PS just re-read your post for a third time.. Seems to me you agreed with me and you don't even realize it
Think it through
In reviewing the Heritage Archives there are a decent number of VF-XF coins that have hit the block over the past 18 years. What I didn't expect to find were NO AU58's to MS62's. A number of 63's to 67's to choose from if your wallet is big enough. They did sell a raw "MS62" back in 1996 but I have to exclude that one.
This VF25 also fetched $18,800 in mid-2014. It had gone for $23K in 2009.
A couple of lower VF range coins have brought $18K to $20K the past 1-2 years. This seems like the new normal.
That coin was an orange turd that had bounced around between several dealers and auction houses for years and in my opinion should never have been in a problem free holder.
I'm in the same position as Jim D. If I didn't already have a suitable 01-S in my collection, I would have bid strongly for this coin. The market for five figure key dates is currently soft.
Doug
<< <i>Someone did get a great deal. Walt's coin was definitely above average for VF examples sold the last five or ten years. Don't compare this coin to the July 14 FUN coin which went for the same price.
That coin was an orange turd that had bounced around between several dealers and auction houses for years and in my opinion should never have been in a problem free holder.
I'm in the same position as Jim D. If I didn't already have a suitable 01-S in my collection, I would have bid strongly for this coin. The market for five figure key dates is currently soft.
Doug >>
The turdy VF25 that looks cleaned might have only fetched $16K-$18K if it went off again. We can only guess. A lot can change in 6 months (ie witness August 2008 to January 2009). It still doesn't make any sense to me that 1 or 2 people not showing up for an auction in a popular and widely collected series (ie Barber quarters in VF) should force a coin 10-20% lower than current market. In thinner markets that happens all the time. JJT and other dealers must represent a fair number of high powered collectors. It should never come down to just 1 or 2 people. Seems to me the dealers that normally support this series at higher levels have backed away. In my mind, dealers are the biggest collectors and speculators of key dates as a group. And the 1901-s quarter might be the most important collectible, series key date silver coin of the 20th century. Wasn't it not very long ago when nice VF30's or 35's were pushing around the $30K level? I would guess there must be hundreds of major players in the coin market for a coin like this in any week of any year. They couldn't have all decided that they weren't going to buy anything at FUN 2015. Though, I must admit that at the FUN 2009 market crash it seemed close to that as the bulk of the FUN auction went begging. I won't exclude the possibility that several people got together on this 1901-s and bid as a "team." Though, that seems like a real stretch when so many dealers specialize in key dates. Jim Dimmick mentions above that he offered $26K for this coin 2 years ago and was turned down flat. So a drop of at least 28% is somewhat surprising. We get conditioned to these high prices after dealers help run them up...then refuse to let them go for fear of selling way too cheap. Been there, done that (see Columbian half story below). Soft markets can get a loft "softer." Learned that lesson in 1992-1993 when I started buying some "bargains" at 50-60% of 1990 prices....only to see prices continue to soften another 50% into 1996.
Fwiw that orange coin has appeared 3X at Heritage in the past 5 years (July 2014 at $18,800, $19,387 in April 2013, and $23,000 in May 2009). The 2 more recent sales would suggest it legitimately being at those levels. In the VF20 to AU50 range CAC has only stickered 3 coins, all of them VF25's. That makes JA a market buyer for this as well. With only 3 pieces in that wide range to choose from, that's another divergence that doesn't quite fit the coin only bringing $18,800. And they've stickered 4 coins from MS67-MS68.
Heritage 1901-s 25c auction listings
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Story from the 1980's. My brother had purchased one of these raw from a local coin shop for MS65 money (at the time over $1,000). He had bought a number of classic "gem" commems for investment purposes. I never knew about it. He decides to show me some of his coins and what he should do with them. When he showed me the gem Columbian I didn't like it. It was a very deep uniform blue with a starkly contrasting white spot on the jaw....or what I would call some light friction/rub. It was the only coin in the group worth sending in....figuring a grade of 63 to 65 was potentially possible. I was sort of surprised when it came back graded MS65. At that time the 65 Columbian prices were being massively promoted and were in the stratosphere at $3,200-$3,400. I had no clue about that....only that the CDN said these were worth big money in 1989. This one could have countered all the other losers my brother owned. I contacted a PNG dealer I knew for a price on the coin which I thought was a little low vs. CDN. He explained that the coin was under promotion and the bottom could drop out any time. So he wanted a little more room around the $2500-$2600 level in order to flip it to the promoter. As we thought about what to do over the coming days/weeks, the promotion fell apart and prices plummeted. When it was all said and done all we could get for the coin was $1200....and were happy to get it. What are these worth now? $400?
for Freeeeeeeeeeee...you're killin' me larry...
<< <i> PS just re-read your post for a third time.. Seems to me you agreed with me and you don't even realize it
Think it through >>
Oh oh, I must have been drunk when I formulated my response, but I'm ok now.
Seriously, I chose my words carefully. I used the term "overpriced" but also qualified it with "maybe" for the sake of argument; as if to say "even if it is....." I proceeded to say overpriced 1901-S (borrowing your terminology) to make a bigger point; that is to say, THEREFORE WHAT?
Seems to me you didn't address the main point.
Not unreasonable given the surfaces, as they are viewed magnified.
It saw some commerce in its day.
I like it.
But then, I like almost all dirty Barber Quarters.
This PCGS F12 (or was it a 15?) was listed on HLRC's site not more than a two months back for 22K. I don't know what it sold for, but it sold within 1-2 days of being posted on his site, so I imagine it fetched a price close to Harry's ask price.
Tyler
Lafayette Grading Set
I find it interesting that one person's "dirty/ugly" coin is the next person's "original" coin. To each their own I say.
And keeping in mind the old saying "opinions are like ---holes, everyone has one and no one wants to hear yours", I stand by mine on the NGC50 referenced earlier in this thread, and my respect for the current owner of that coin precludes any further comment.
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
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<< <i>If I remember right, we offered more than 18.8k outright for that coin last summer. >>
The important question is if it was worth $18,800 to you right now? Would you buy it? Markets can change a lot in a year. A number of people have said some key dates have gotten softer.
<< <i>
<< <i>If I remember right, we offered more than 18.8k outright for that coin last summer. >>
The important question is if it was worth $18,800 to you right now? Would you buy it? Markets can change a lot in a year. A number of people have said some key dates have gotten softer. >>
I would not at this point, as the coin had the auction exposure. Had the coin been offered to me, or any number of dealers, privately before the FUN Show, I believe it could have been sold for more.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
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