What do you think of the center bands on this Merc? 1945

fcloud

thanks for the comments...

GoldCoin98

Not full bands

Type2

Same no FB. But if you did rec it good for you. If you are going to buy it i would pass and find one that is full band if thats your thing. That is just me dumb Type2 thinking.

291fifth

Not full.

TwoSides2aCoin

Wishful thinking , but close if it's '45

lasvegasteddy

<< <i>Same no FB. But if you did rec it good for you. If you are going to buy it i would pass and find one that is full band if thats your thing. That is just me dumb Type2 thinking. >>


^^^^ this +1 ^^^^

ColonelJessup

Nothing wrong with the OP's intent. If he's unclear, as are many, just look at....... never mind. . . .

Wanna talk gradeflation? How about desigflation. That these would even be considered FB is the result of creating more "product" that makes perfect sense as long as you don't look at what you're buying.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>Nothing wrong with the OP's intent. If he's unclear, as are many, just look at....... never mind. . . .

Wanna talk gradeflation? How about desigflation. That these would even be considered FB is the result of creating more "product" that makes perfect sense as long as you don't look at what you're buying. >>


Sometimes it's the WAY we tend to look at them that gets us (common collectors , et.al.) "screwed". You are a good teacher.

remumc

I do not think it will receive Full Bands from our host.

ricko

I would say no, due to the left side (as viewed).... likely looks worse without magnification...Cheers, RickO

DIMEMAN

I think this was a test....right Tony?

And everyone passed with flying colors.

fcloud

Okay. I have now posted an image of the whole 1945 coin in the PCGS holder.

The toughest date you can get an FB coin on, and it is oh-so-close.

What percentage would you call the bands? I'm thinking 95%.

fcloud

<< <i>Wishful thinking , but close if it's '45 >>



Great guess...

Tibor

While this coin is not FB, considering the date I would
purchase the coin. It is as close as you will get without
paying the FB premium. Very nice.

lasvegasteddy

<< <i>I think this was a test....right Tony?

And everyone passed with flying colors. >>



by all rights we were trying to call designation over center bands only
top n bottom bands must be full too for such a call

if i'm right on this matter

it'd be one to cry over if an example had full split center bands but top or bottom bands weren't

every bit of 95% on the center bands

fcloud

<< <i>

<< <i>I think this was a test....right Tony?

And everyone passed with flying colors. >>



by all rights we were trying to call designation over center bands only
top n bottom bands must be full too for such a call

if i'm right on this matter

it'd be one to cry over if an example had full split center bands but top or bottom bands weren't

every bit of 95% on the center bands >>



You are correct. All bands need to be full, and the top & Bottom are fully rounded. It is only the center that just missed.

Shamika

I could see it go either way. But I'm glad PCGS chose to be cautious and not give it FB designation.

BustHalfBrian

I had a 45-P last year with almost identical bands to this - It didn't go FB. When someone's going to pay multiple thousands of dollars for those two letters, they'd better be unquestionable.

The coin in the OP is questionable, and so was mine.

fcloud

<< <i>I had a 45-P last year with almost identical bands to this - It didn't go FB. When someone's going to pay multiple thousands of dollars for those two letters, they'd better be unquestionable.

The coin in the OP is questionable, and so was mine. >>



There is no doubt the coin is not full band, but for 1945 they are awesome!

Colorfulcoins

Mushy to left side and clearly wouldn't and shouldn't get the designation. But exactly the kind of coin that one would look very closely at "just in case......."

BustHalfBrian

<< <i>

<< <i>I had a 45-P last year with almost identical bands to this - It didn't go FB. When someone's going to pay multiple thousands of dollars for those two letters, they'd better be unquestionable.

The coin in the OP is questionable, and so was mine. >>



There is no doubt the coin is not full band, but for 1945 they are awesome! >>



Not all hope is lost. A comparable coin sold on eBay for almost $2500.

Now all the OP has to do is crack his coin out of the PCGS slab, soak in dip for no less than 30 minutes, and throw it in a cheap plastic frame that says it's FB.

emzee

This is a near-fb 1945 pcgs ms 66 10c (of mine) soon to be up for auction in a January 2015 HA internet sale:


link to 1945 10c

This coin is struck from clashed dies.

Michael

BustHalfBrian

<< <i>This is a near-fb 1945 pcgs ms 66 10c (of mine) soon to be up for auction in a January 2015 HA internet sale:


link to 1945 10c

This coin is struck from clashed dies.

Michael >>



I think that coin looks more FB than most of the FB examples in CoinFacts...

Did you ever consider cracking --> resubmitting?

fcloud

Added to my tracking list...

rainbowroosie

Ditto to Craig's comment.

amwldcoin

I've seen worse designated FB. I don't think it is myself. I was given a semi threat years ago for voting against and keeping a coin worse than this going FB!

mercurydimeguy

If you picked up this coin for normal MS66 $$ (e.g. dirt cheap, then you've done well)! It's an early die state coin for sure...but not close enough to get FB at PCGS. Nice pickup though...

fcloud

<< <i>If you picked up this coin for normal MS66 $$ (e.g. dirt cheap, then you've done well)! It's an early die state coin for sure...but not close enough to get FB at PCGS. Nice pickup though... >>



I purchased a roll of these at a show last spring, picked five of them from the roll, and submitted them for grading. The roll has many partial bands with this partial band being the best of the bunch. Out of the five I send in they graded 66, 66, 66, 66+, and 67.

mercurydimeguy

<< <i>Out of the five I send in they graded 66, 66, 66, 66+, and 67. >>


Wow those are awesome results and some roll!!

6 coins graded 66 or higher, very impressive.

roadrunner

<< <i>I've seen worse designated FB. I don't think it is myself. I was given a semi threat years ago for voting against and keeping a coin worse than this going FB! >>



This.

There are examples in holders not really any better than this one. And you often see this kind of full band quality on other dates. While they are not 100% full and split, that doesn't mean they can't be assigned a full band label. I'd say half of what I see in FB holders aren't really deeply split-band coins. And 75-90% of them are not "fully rounded and split" bands (ie 100% fully struck up).

If you can buy a 1945 with that good a band and no premium you are doing something right. I'd certainly ask a hefty premium for it.

If the coin weren't graded MS66 the odds of a FB designation would have been higher. I could easily see this coin in a 61-63 grade getting a FB designation. It might take a lot of submissions, but eventually it could happen. I'd bet someone out there would consider putting more marks on that coin and resubmitting it.

roadrunner

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I had a 45-P last year with almost identical bands to this - It didn't go FB. When someone's going to pay multiple thousands of dollars for those two letters, they'd better be unquestionable.

The coin in the OP is questionable, and so was mine. >>



There is no doubt the coin is not full band, but for 1945 they are awesome! >>



Not all hope is lost. A comparable coin sold on eBay for almost $2500.

Now all the OP has to do is crack his coin out of the PCGS slab, soak in dip for no less than 30 minutes, and throw it in a cheap plastic frame that says it's FB.

>>




I think most of the 1945 FB coins I've seen are weak on the bands. I don't usually go looking for this date. But, I've never seen a fully rounded and split one. You can't have a viable FB registry set if one of the coins doesn't
exist in FB condition.

That Ebay coin linked above may not have sold. Just because the seller lists it as sold for $2500 doesn't mean it did. Sellers can play numerous games with BINs and auctions to generate demand. I've been watching one ebay seller on a rare classic car that has listed it about 10 times since July. There have been 3 "no reserve" auctions where the car "sold" for $80K, $65K, and $50K. And each time it was re-listed. And each time the bidding looked rigged and shilled. They also had it listed for a fixed price of $119K and later down to $82K. The car is arguably not worth more than $37K to $45K. But they continue their games with a fresh listing every 2 weeks.

DIMEMAN

>>>If the coin weren't graded MS66 the odds of a FB designation would have been higher. I could easily see this coin in a 61-63 grade getting a FB designation. It might take a lot of submissions, but eventually it could happen. I'd bet someone out there would consider putting more marks on that coin and resubmitting it. <<<

This kind of thinking is what is terribly wrong with today's grading and designation process! It shouldn't matter what year or what mint a coin is.....it should get the correct grade and designation the first time and every time!!!!!

TwoSides2aCoin

I think that coin is great. And you see what I think of the center bands, earlier. Great looker, too. Subsequent revelations are AOK, as well.

Winged Liberty dimes are among my favorite in those HIGH grades and the series overall, barring a couple of coins is really not that difficult even for a novice , to assemble. I'd like to try it again , in higher grades next time.

roadrunner

<< <i>>>>If the coin weren't graded MS66 the odds of a FB designation would have been higher. I could easily see this coin in a 61-63 grade getting a FB designation. It might take a lot of submissions, but eventually it could happen. I'd bet someone out there would consider putting more marks on that coin and resubmitting it. <<<

This kind of thinking is what is terribly wrong with today's grading and designation process! It shouldn't matter what year or what mint a coin is.....it should get the correct grade and designation the first time and every time!!!!! >>



I don't consider it terribly wrong, at least not if I were the one having to pay for the insurance of the marketplace grading risk. And without that market place insurance (ie TPG guarantee buy backs) there is no market and no
worthwhile grading system. Current market place grading tends to be on what a coin is worth, a quantifiable number. Assigning just a grade would mean ignoring what a coin is actually worth, eye appeal, etc. By grading this
particular 1945 dime as MS66 (no band), they essentially priced it to the market. Collectors need far more protection from what a coin's value is or could be, vs. what technical grade is it. I think the area of early copper is
a good example where you can have a nearly full red coin being assigned an RB grade, but also getting a 1 pt bump for being 85-90% red. Calling those technical solid MS65 coins as MS65 RB would be an injustice. Many times
they do get graded MS66 RB.

The huge price spread for a 1945 dime that is 90-95% struck also calls out for something a little different than the norm. The TPG's don't want to needlessly accept a $50K risk on a potential $100-$500 coin. Can't blame them. They learned that lesson well when they graded a 1963 Lincoln as PF70 and effectively insured the coin for $40K. These are smaller glitches on "liner" coins with big spreads. The market should not be defined by them. Anyone can start up their own grading service and give this Merc a MS66 FB grade. I guess the other option is a MS65 FB grade...but that's still big money with big risk for a band that is arguably, barely split. I learned my lesson on "full XXX" coins back in 1988 when I cracked out a flawless and very colorful 1924 MS66 FH SLQ. The coin was a no brainer MS67, at least on eye appeal and surfaces. The strike was 90-95% with a tad of weakness on the hairline profile. It took me 4 tries to get that coin "back" into a 66 FH holder....forget any thoughts of an upgrade. I even turned down a sure profit from an upgrader who wanted to try the coin themselves. And on the way it graded 65 FH, 65, 66, 66 FH.

DIMEMAN

>>>I don't consider it terribly wrong, at least not if I were the one having to pay for the insurance of the marketplace grading risk. And without that market place insurance (ie TPG guarantee buy backs) there is no market and no
worthwhile grading system. Current market place grading tends to be on what a coin is worth, a quantifiable number. Assigning just a grade would mean ignoring what a coin is actually worth, eye appeal, etc. By grading this
particular 1945 dime as MS66 (no band), they essentially priced it to the market. Collectors need far more protection from what a coin's value is or could be, vs. what technical grade is it. I think the area of early copper is
a good example where you can have a nearly full red coin being assigned an RB grade, but also getting a 1 pt bump for being 85-90% red. Calling those technical solid MS65 coins as MS65 RB would be an injustice. Many times
they do get graded MS66 RB. The huge price spread for a 1945 dime that is 90-95% struck also calls out for something a little different than the norm. The TPG's don't want to needlessly accept a $50K risk on a potential
$100-$500 coin. Can't blame them. They learned that lesson well when they graded a 1963 Lincoln as PF70 and effectively insured the coin for $40K. <<<

This whole statement makes no sense at all.

messydesk

There's a lot more bang for your buck with that coin than there is for one officially designated FB. I doubt that it ever gets a FB designation, since one look at the price guides will tell you just how closely it'd be scrutinized.

roadrunner

<< <i>>>>I don't consider it terribly wrong, at least not if I were the one having to pay for the insurance of the marketplace grading risk. And without that market place insurance (ie TPG guarantee buy backs) there is no market and no
worthwhile grading system. Current market place grading tends to be on what a coin is worth, a quantifiable number. Assigning just a grade would mean ignoring what a coin is actually worth, eye appeal, etc. By grading this
particular 1945 dime as MS66 (no band), they essentially priced it to the market. Collectors need far more protection from what a coin's value is or could be, vs. what technical grade is it. I think the area of early copper is
a good example where you can have a nearly full red coin being assigned an RB grade, but also getting a 1 pt bump for being 85-90% red. Calling those technical solid MS65 coins as MS65 RB would be an injustice. Many times
they do get graded MS66 RB. The huge price spread for a 1945 dime that is 90-95% struck also calls out for something a little different than the norm. The TPG's don't want to needlessly accept a $50K risk on a potential
$100-$500 coin. Can't blame them. They learned that lesson well when they graded a 1963 Lincoln as PF70 and effectively insured the coin for $40K. <<<

This whole statement makes no sense at all. >>


To each his own. I guess I've learned nothing in 50 years of playing this game. In approx >65-75% of the cases a coin's grade will match it's value. It's the other times where things get interesting. And nowhere does it state
that grading always makes sense. 1945 FB dimes probably have to be one of the diciest areas of the market to grade, value, and understand.

117 PCGS total full band 1945 Mercs is a pretty small quantity after nearly 3 decades of grading - (1/3 that of the 1916-d FB's). Only 8 have received the grades of 60-62....those are even "rarer" than the higher grades.

Pop report

DeepCoin

And how many of those have been through the grading room more than once? A good number I would suggest

fcloud

I think the coin will be sent in by someone in the future, and that will be up to them. The bands are about as close as you can get without getting the designation, and would fit nicely into someone's FB set, if they are on a budget. I have seen other dates with bands like this get the designation (full bands). With that said; I won't be sending it for regrade. That game is for someone else. For now it is just going to sit in its holder...

nepbrs44

<< <i>Not full bands >>

I agree.

keyman64

I agree with most others in here that it isn't FB but fcloud is right, you can't get much closer and still miss the designation. It looks like a nice dime and would certainly command a nice premium, at auction, over other non-FB 1945 examples...there typically is a premium for well struck coins and this certainly qualifies as such.

fcloud

<< <i>I agree with most others in here that it isn't FB but fcloud is right, you can't get much closer and still miss the designation. It looks like a nice dime and would certainly command a nice premium, at auction, over other non-FB 1945 examples...there typically is a premium for well struck coins and this certainly qualifies as such. >>



Thanks for the comment, Greg!

Treashunt

<< <i>Not full bands >>



But, Oh so close!