My.... My.... My.... Right On Cue. The Sour Grapes Brigade some of which sent me multiple emails wanting information and pricing now can do Their Best Bashing Routine when they know absolutely nothing at all of what was being offered. Gee, and I wonder why I choose to deal with just a few collectors when given that opportunity. Anyway, what ever makes some of you feel better.
"My.... My.... My.... Right On Cue. The Sour Grapes Briadge some of which sent me multiple emails wanting information and pricing now can do Their Best Bashing Routine when they know absolutely Nothing At All About what I was offering. Gee, and I wonder why I choose to deal with just a few collectors when given that oppourtunity. Anyway, what ever makes some of you guys feel better."
This is in poor taste and totally uncalled for. I'm going to leave it at that.
hopefully, shedding this responsibility will get you revved up to find another new horde of stuff someday. that's what it's all about anyways.
i think the envious part of anyone here would reflect their feelings about your experience these past few years. it is RARE to have such a wonderful accumulation.
also a heavy load once the news gets out and others know about it. the attraction is like licking honey from the jar.
Happy New Year Kirk. best wishes for another one just like this one.
I never got a reply and I sent a pm early, but it doesn't bother me. I just think he might have left money on the table with all of the interested parties.
I'm sure it's obvious to mojorob that it would have been a better idea to offer the stuff privately to the buyers he used, and only offer the stuff that remained after that publicly if he deemed it worth the trouble. Unfortunately, do overs are not available in life.
As probably the first one to send an email, I am not offended. It saved me the trouble when I saw the price on the first lot leave the stratosphere of reality. With that being said it was a neat collection and I wish Kirk the very best and enjoyed the photos he posted and respect the time he took to do so. As for the flogging…..this is America and he has the right to sell to whom he wants, whenever he wants, what order he wants, and for the price he wants even if it is 10,000% of the value. I hope the flogging does not deflect his wanting to share in any future finds. If he indeed got his price I commend him. As P.T. Barnum once said…..there is one born every minute. I think he marketed this very well by the thread he posted a long time ago. Kudos Kirk.
I'd like to add to the sentiment that those slamming Kirk were out of line for reasons already stated. As for comments about ridiculous ask prices, the opportunities to buy pack fresh cards for Beckett prices are mostly long gone unless you find someone who doesn't know what they have. A nice, mostly raw 1963 Topps baseball set sold in auction last year for nearly $20k. The same collector's 'lesser' raw set sold this year for around $10k. If you want quality vintage raw, you're mostly going to pay, be it through Greg Morris or AHs.
If anyone has a cheap source for NM-MT+ vintage cards, I'd love to hear it.
I would love for you to point out the NM-MT cards in the OPs first offered lot. Personally I don't care…..if Kirk got his price kudos to him….he posted wonderful photos, but that is nowhere near a $1500 lot. I would estimate majority EXMT NRMT and $400 is generous. However paired with the boxes etc. I understand the premium IF wrappers are included. I will sell all of you my 1960s and 1970s EXMT or NM_MT OCs for the same percentage he is supposedly asking and getting. We have many 1960s and 1970s baseball pack fresh NRMT+ and some OCs with "8" corners. I think the demand is there for a solid EXMT-NRMT prices group. However I do not see many "8"s if any in the 1961 FB lot.
Jason, Your disadvantage is you can't see all the cards. The Packer cards alone if graded would likely bring more than $500.00 You'll just have to take my word on that or not. The Henry Jordan card looks like a lock PSA 8 that trades for over 200.00 alone. Anyway, believe what you will.
I am amazed at how quickly people on this board turn on someone when it does not fit their narrative or circumstances. I remember first seeing the thread of items that Kirk listed on here last summer, and I can remember everyone to a person marveling at seeing things very few collectors get to see - raw cards, wrappers and boxes from the 60's and 70's that were in pristine shape and like they were just pulled from a pack. Probably because they were, and the amount of time it took to photograph, describe, and post for the board members was significant. Many stated it was the best thread they had ever seen on this board and thanked Kirk for sharing - present company included.
Fast forward to today where several members have resorted to name calling and questioning Kirk's integrity and motives - one member even stated the only reason he posted this was to sell and market his cards. That is a pretty big reach since the original post was done last summer(2013), so you are saying that the seller was so calculated that he posted everything the hope of marketing them 18 months later? Give me a break. Another poster barely 2-3 posts into this thread stated that these were only the leftovers and that all of the good cards have been cherry picked.
Kirk has dealt with many on this board with outstanding results and follow up, and I would put his reputation up against those who are on here whining like a 6 year old who did not get the toy they wanted at Toys R Us His stuff went from being great and amazing to "overpriced 10,000%, bunch of OC cards, picked through for all of the 8's and 9's..." Funny thing is these same folks bashing him and his stuff are the same ones that were the first to contact him on this thread - one arrogantly enough even stated that he "should make a list of what he had left do we could go through it" liked they were owed it.
The poster apologized for the amount of requests and said he could not have anticipated the response and would not be able to reach everyone. After seeing how people have been towards him why would he deal with you rather than sell to a few folks or just go through an auction house? The way I see it they are his cards, he can sell them to who he wants for what he wants, and if the cards were as bad as some are making them out to be why or overpriced why are these posters complaining and demanding they be contacted and have a chance at them? Very transparent with their motives, and I think some of the posts by a few buyers on here give collecting a bad name.
From the original thread showing the displays, many of the cards looked to be at least PSA 8 quality with some random OC throughout. The inserts were also in great condition.
Crap! Just went back to the original thread to look at some of those pics. Unfortunately, they are no longer there. Those were some epic pics.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>I am amazed at how quickly people on this board turn on someone when it does not fit their narrative or circumstances. I remember first seeing the thread of items that Kirk listed on here last summer, and I can remember everyone to a person marveling at seeing things very few collectors get to see - raw cards, wrappers and boxes from the 60's and 70's that were in pristine shape and like they were just pulled from a pack. Probably because they were, and the amount of time it took to photograph, describe, and post for the board members was significant. Many stated it was the best thread they had ever seen on this board and thanked Kirk for sharing - present company included.
Fast forward to today where several members have resorted to name calling and questioning Kirk's integrity and motives - one member even stated the only reason he posted this was to sell and market his cards. That is a pretty big reach since the original post was done last summer(2013), so you are saying that the seller was so calculated that he posted everything the hope of marketing them 18 months later? Give me a break. Another poster barely 2-3 posts into this thread stated that these were only the leftovers and that all of the good cards have been cherry picked.
Kirk has dealt with many on this board with outstanding results and follow up, and I would put his reputation up against those who are on here whining like a 6 year old who did not get the toy they wanted at Toys R Us His stuff went from being great and amazing to "overpriced 10,000%, bunch of OC cards, picked through for all of the 8's and 9's..." Funny thing is these same folks bashing him and his stuff are the same ones that were the first to contact him on this thread - one arrogantly enough even stated that he "should make a list of what he had left do we could go through it" liked they were owed it.
The poster apologized for the amount of requests and said he could not have anticipated the response and would not be able to reach everyone. After seeing how people have been towards him why would he deal with you rather than sell to a few folks or just go through an auction house? The way I see it they are his cards, he can sell them to who he wants for what he wants, and if the cards were as bad as some are making them out to be why or overpriced why are these posters complaining and demanding they be contacted and have a chance at them? Very transparent with their motives, and I think some of the posts by a few buyers on here give collecting a bad name. >>
There is no question that Kirk seems to be a stand up guy. I even praise his marketing on this awesome collection. To say there are valuable 8 quality cards left in a the groups he is selling with boxes….we can agree to disagree. At any rate you are correct I have only seen the 1 box he posted. I never received a response otherwise so perhaps the later years may have been stronger. All I can tell you is the 61 lot was no where near $1500. If he got it….great. I especially liked his 1968 football display he made along with the boxes with wrappers. This was an amazing find and I wish the OP nothing but the best. It is awesome for someone to share extensive photos of finds like this in the original state.
Jason the sample size collection wise you are looking at was extremely limited.
On the 61's as an example there were easily a 1,000.00 worth of value in the cards alone. That's just a fact. The Near Mint Display box that you never see offered is easily worth 250.00 + So in my mind, I had the lot valued at around 1,250.00 Certainly not a stretch at all when you consider the Packer cards alone if graded would bring well over 500.00 That's why I listed it where I did and also added "Or Best Offer" because I figured I'd come off it a couple hundred bucks to the 1,250 to 1,200 range.
Anyway, I've been around awhile so I do know value, grading, etc. as I've built many complete 1960's registry sets through the years. Still have some.
At the time, I purposely listed the 1961 Set for a two fold reason. One to show anyone interested that the cards "are the cards", as that box was exactly like I bought it, many OC examples and all. And Second, that I was not going to be giving the stuff away.
Now what you don't know, because how could you is what a lot of the other stuff looked like that was sold. There were multiple boxes of cards that not only had Many PSA 8's in them, but Many PSA 9's also and in a few instances I would even suspect a couple PSA 10's but that remains to be seen when some of them will be no doubt graded down the road here a piece. Again, you can choose to believe me or not. I'm just telling you what I know.
That's why your P.T. Barnum reference that you went to multiple times in this thread is clearly off base, although I can certainly understand your thinking predicated on the small sample size you had to go on. Anyway, I just wanted to make that clarification. We can still agree to disagree as I have no problem with that. Regardless Thank you for the kind words you did have a long the way. I appreciate.
Let's Please Just put this thread to rest if we can. I undoubtedly made some mistakes and miscalculations along the way here on this one. As PaulMaul referred to earlier: I certainly would have done it differently knowing the out come that resulted "Unfortunately, do overs are not available in life."
If I got pissed of every time I didn't get a response from an inquiry/offer I made it would make for a very frustrating life. If he didn't get back to you just move on. Is it rude to solicit inquiries and not respond? Sure, and saying 'I probably won't get back to you' after the fact doesn't make it any less so. So you choose not to deal with this person and move on. He won't care and neither should you.
<< <i>I would like to thank Kirk for sharing his incredible collection. It's not often you can go back in time, thanks for sharing that sweet ride. The Dude >>
+1
It was a true pleasure taking a trip back in time. I have never seen a collection quite like that, so it was very cool that he shared it with all of us.
Jason, you got mad at PT Barnum because he wouldn't sell you a ticket to the show. Then insulted him by claiming his 1961 lot with high grade wax box was 10x overpriced. In other words, you think the lot is only worth $150 OBO. As Kirk mentioned, the empty box alone would be worth close to that if you can find one. Here's a NM, slightly O/C Hornung that recently sold for over $50 all by itself.
So clearly you don't know how to value vintage cards. Had I been a football collector, I would have seriously considered a lot like that for the price it was offered at.
<< <i>For those of you backing this guy up, let me ask you a question.
Let's say eight of you are sitting at a table at the national, enjoying a nice beverage, and BBCE comes up to you and says that he just got a case of 1986 fleer basketball. He bought them for $10,000 a box (value 25k) and just wanted a quick resale and was offering them to you eight guys for $13,000.00 per box. You were excited, and had your heart set on purchasing a box or two. You knew you would have a chance of obtaining something that would be awesome.
Then BBCE comes to you 8 guys and says he's only selling to 2 of you, because he knows them a little better than the other six.
How would you feel if you were one of the other six ? >>
1970's - I don't think you of all posters in this thread have a leg to stand on. You bashed him over his cards, told him to make a list for everyone to see and make restitution, asked for him to make everyone whole. Then in the next post you bashed his items as a bunch of overpriced OC items that were oversearched. Now your analogy of BBCE items at the National you talk about some cool items only available to a few.
In short you are just throwing mud because you did not get any of the items offered and have tried to discredit him and his items and sharing his collection. If I was offering items for sale I would not deal with you on any transactions based on your actions - like my previous post stated someone is kicking and screaming outside of Toys R Us and it is apparent to everyone who that is
<< <i>For those of you backing this guy up, let me ask you a question.
Let's say eight of you are sitting at a table at the national, enjoying a nice beverage, and BBCE comes up to you and says that he just got a case of 1986 fleer basketball. He bought them for $10,000 a box (value 25k) and just wanted a quick resale and was offering them to you eight guys for $13,000.00 per box. You were excited, and had your heart set on purchasing a box or two. You knew you would have a chance of obtaining something that would be awesome.
Then BBCE comes to you 8 guys and says he's only selling to 2 of you, because he knows them a little better than the other six.
How would you feel if you were one of the other six ? >>
I don't collect basketball, so I wouldn't care. In all seriousness, I would be disappointed but it would be his right to do so. Would I sit there and insult him, ensuring he never sells to me in the future? No!
OK maybe the 10X was a bit over exaggerated, but there is no way that lot is $1200-1400 as pictured. I did not see any others, just the 61 FB. I do not see any 8 cards in there…..maybe 8 OCs etc. I am not pissed either. I do not see the box as NRMT or $250,but I definitely could be mistaken because they do not come up often. I am going by the fact I had a chance to purchase 1955 Bowman and 1955 Topps baseball boxes both for less than $200 each in just as nice or nicer condition. I declined not being a box collector and I know they were for sale a while. Perhaps 1960s FB boxes are worth more and more rare. I do know 1960s BB boxes have sold for alot cheaper. I do not blame the OP, I will shoot for the moon as well with a lot like that. Still nice stuff in original condition. I also do not blame him for selling to buyers he knows. I personally would not have offered it on the public BST and elude to that etiquette of first come, first served. It seems it was not sold that way. I really personally do not care, but seems a lot of others do. I would have had interest in the 1960s-70s baseball boxes with cards only if wrappers were included. Then the premiums could be easily justified. My take on the 1961s RAW (we cannot argue what they may grade) would be $500 maybe $650-700 with the box. They were offered raw and that is raw value. We cannot justify value from what we think they will grade.
<< <i>For those of you backing this guy up, let me ask you a question.
Let's say eight of you are sitting at a table at the national, enjoying a nice beverage, and BBCE comes up to you and says that he just got a case of 1986 fleer basketball. He bought them for $10,000 a box (value 25k) and just wanted a quick resale and was offering them to you eight guys for $13,000.00 per box. You were excited, and had your heart set on purchasing a box or two. You knew you would have a chance of obtaining something that would be awesome.
Then BBCE comes to you 8 guys and says he's only selling to 2 of you, because he knows them a little better than the other six.
How would you feel if you were one of the other six ? >>
why are you comparing a hypothetical situation involving a multi-million dollar retail business to a real situation involving a card collector who happened upon a great find and decided to sell?
has this become all about petulance? there's a good question.
Comments
now can do Their Best Bashing Routine when they know absolutely nothing at all of what was being offered.
Gee, and I wonder why I choose to deal with just a few collectors when given that opportunity.
Anyway, what ever makes some of you feel better.
now can do Their Best Bashing Routine when they know absolutely Nothing At All About what I was offering.
Gee, and I wonder why I choose to deal with just a few collectors when given that oppourtunity.
Anyway, what ever makes some of you guys feel better."
This is in poor taste and totally uncalled for. I'm going to leave it at that.
i think the envious part of anyone here would reflect their feelings about your experience these past few years. it is RARE to have such a wonderful accumulation.
also a heavy load once the news gets out and others know about it. the attraction is like licking honey from the jar.
Happy New Year Kirk. best wishes for another one just like this one.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
Jason
If anyone has a cheap source for NM-MT+ vintage cards, I'd love to hear it.
I would love for you to point out the NM-MT cards in the OPs first offered lot. Personally I don't care…..if Kirk got his price kudos to him….he posted wonderful photos, but that is nowhere near a $1500 lot. I would estimate majority EXMT NRMT and $400 is generous. However paired with the boxes etc. I understand the premium IF wrappers are included. I will sell all of you my 1960s and 1970s EXMT or NM_MT OCs for the same percentage he is supposedly asking and getting. We have many 1960s and 1970s baseball pack fresh NRMT+ and some OCs with "8" corners. I think the demand is there for a solid EXMT-NRMT prices group. However I do not see many "8"s if any in the 1961 FB lot.
Jason
Your disadvantage is you can't see all the cards.
The Packer cards alone if graded would likely bring more than $500.00
You'll just have to take my word on that or not.
The Henry Jordan card looks like a lock PSA 8 that trades for over 200.00 alone.
Anyway, believe what you will.
Fast forward to today where several members have resorted to name calling and questioning Kirk's integrity and motives - one member even stated the only reason he posted this was to sell and market his cards. That is a pretty big reach since the original post was done last summer(2013), so you are saying that the seller was so calculated that he posted everything the hope of marketing them 18 months later? Give me a break. Another poster barely 2-3 posts into this thread stated that these were only the leftovers and that all of the good cards have been cherry picked.
Kirk has dealt with many on this board with outstanding results and follow up, and I would put his reputation up against those who are on here whining like a 6 year old who did not get the toy they wanted at Toys R Us
The poster apologized for the amount of requests and said he could not have anticipated the response and would not be able to reach everyone. After seeing how people have been towards him why would he deal with you rather than sell to a few folks or just go through an auction house? The way I see it they are his cards, he can sell them to who he wants for what he wants, and if the cards were as bad as some are making them out to be why or overpriced why are these posters complaining and demanding they be contacted and have a chance at them? Very transparent with their motives, and I think some of the posts by a few buyers on here give collecting a bad name.
Crap! Just went back to the original thread to look at some of those pics. Unfortunately, they are no longer there. Those were some epic pics.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>I am amazed at how quickly people on this board turn on someone when it does not fit their narrative or circumstances. I remember first seeing the thread of items that Kirk listed on here last summer, and I can remember everyone to a person marveling at seeing things very few collectors get to see - raw cards, wrappers and boxes from the 60's and 70's that were in pristine shape and like they were just pulled from a pack. Probably because they were, and the amount of time it took to photograph, describe, and post for the board members was significant. Many stated it was the best thread they had ever seen on this board and thanked Kirk for sharing - present company included.
Fast forward to today where several members have resorted to name calling and questioning Kirk's integrity and motives - one member even stated the only reason he posted this was to sell and market his cards. That is a pretty big reach since the original post was done last summer(2013), so you are saying that the seller was so calculated that he posted everything the hope of marketing them 18 months later? Give me a break. Another poster barely 2-3 posts into this thread stated that these were only the leftovers and that all of the good cards have been cherry picked.
Kirk has dealt with many on this board with outstanding results and follow up, and I would put his reputation up against those who are on here whining like a 6 year old who did not get the toy they wanted at Toys R Us
The poster apologized for the amount of requests and said he could not have anticipated the response and would not be able to reach everyone. After seeing how people have been towards him why would he deal with you rather than sell to a few folks or just go through an auction house? The way I see it they are his cards, he can sell them to who he wants for what he wants, and if the cards were as bad as some are making them out to be why or overpriced why are these posters complaining and demanding they be contacted and have a chance at them? Very transparent with their motives, and I think some of the posts by a few buyers on here give collecting a bad name. >>
I think this sums up the situation quite well.
Jason
On the 61's as an example there were easily a 1,000.00 worth of value in the cards alone.
That's just a fact. The Near Mint Display box that you never see offered is easily worth 250.00 +
So in my mind, I had the lot valued at around 1,250.00 Certainly not a stretch at all when you consider the Packer cards alone
if graded would bring well over 500.00
That's why I listed it where I did and also added "Or Best Offer" because I figured I'd come off it a couple hundred bucks to the 1,250 to 1,200 range.
Anyway, I've been around awhile so I do know value, grading, etc. as I've built many complete 1960's registry sets through
the years. Still have some.
At the time, I purposely listed the 1961 Set for a two fold reason.
One to show anyone interested that the cards "are the cards", as that box was exactly like I bought it, many OC examples and all.
And Second, that I was not going to be giving the stuff away.
Now what you don't know, because how could you is what a lot of the other stuff looked like that was sold.
There were multiple boxes of cards that not only had Many PSA 8's in them, but Many PSA 9's also and in a few instances I would even suspect a couple PSA 10's
but that remains to be seen when some of them will be no doubt graded down the road here a piece.
Again, you can choose to believe me or not.
I'm just telling you what I know.
That's why your P.T. Barnum reference that you went to multiple times in this thread is clearly off base, although I can certainly understand your thinking
predicated on the small sample size you had to go on.
Anyway, I just wanted to make that clarification.
We can still agree to disagree as I have no problem with that.
Regardless Thank you for the kind words you did have a long the way.
I appreciate.
Let's Please Just put this thread to rest if we can.
I undoubtedly made some mistakes and miscalculations along the way here on this one.
As PaulMaul referred to earlier: I certainly would have done it differently knowing the out come that resulted
"Unfortunately, do overs are not available in life."
Lee
<< <i>I would like to thank Kirk for sharing his incredible collection. It's not often you can go back in time, thanks for sharing that sweet ride. The Dude >>
+1
It was a true pleasure taking a trip back in time. I have never seen a collection quite like that, so it was very cool that he shared it with all of us.
Jmaciu's Collection
Hornung Auction
So clearly you don't know how to value vintage cards. Had I been a football collector, I would have seriously considered a lot like that for the price it was offered at.
<< <i>For those of you backing this guy up, let me ask you a question.
Let's say eight of you are sitting at a table at the national, enjoying a nice beverage, and BBCE comes up to you and says that he just
got a case of 1986 fleer basketball. He bought them for $10,000 a box (value 25k) and just wanted a quick resale and was offering them
to you eight guys for $13,000.00 per box. You were excited, and had your heart set on purchasing a box or two. You knew you would have
a chance of obtaining something that would be awesome.
Then BBCE comes to you 8 guys and says he's only selling to 2 of you, because he knows them a little better than the other six.
How would you feel if you were one of the other six ? >>
1970's - I don't think you of all posters in this thread have a leg to stand on. You bashed him over his cards, told him to make a list for everyone to see and make restitution, asked for him to make everyone whole. Then in the next post you bashed his items as a bunch of overpriced OC items that were oversearched. Now your analogy of BBCE items at the National you talk about some cool items only available to a few.
In short you are just throwing mud because you did not get any of the items offered and have tried to discredit him and his items and sharing his collection. If I was offering items for sale I would not deal with you on any transactions based on your actions - like my previous post stated someone is kicking and screaming outside of Toys R Us and it is apparent to everyone who that is
<< <i>For those of you backing this guy up, let me ask you a question.
Let's say eight of you are sitting at a table at the national, enjoying a nice beverage, and BBCE comes up to you and says that he just
got a case of 1986 fleer basketball. He bought them for $10,000 a box (value 25k) and just wanted a quick resale and was offering them
to you eight guys for $13,000.00 per box. You were excited, and had your heart set on purchasing a box or two. You knew you would have
a chance of obtaining something that would be awesome.
Then BBCE comes to you 8 guys and says he's only selling to 2 of you, because he knows them a little better than the other six.
How would you feel if you were one of the other six ? >>
I don't collect basketball, so I wouldn't care.
Jason
<< <i>For those of you backing this guy up, let me ask you a question.
Let's say eight of you are sitting at a table at the national, enjoying a nice beverage, and BBCE comes up to you and says that he just
got a case of 1986 fleer basketball. He bought them for $10,000 a box (value 25k) and just wanted a quick resale and was offering them
to you eight guys for $13,000.00 per box. You were excited, and had your heart set on purchasing a box or two. You knew you would have
a chance of obtaining something that would be awesome.
Then BBCE comes to you 8 guys and says he's only selling to 2 of you, because he knows them a little better than the other six.
How would you feel if you were one of the other six ? >>
why are you comparing a hypothetical situation involving a multi-million dollar retail business to a real situation involving a card collector who happened upon a great find and decided to sell?
has this become all about petulance? there's a good question.
please. get over it. the sale is done.